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gurujuan

This transfer window - Wing backs

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7 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

 

I don’t think there’s any evidence to suggest that any of the wing backs tried were effective. Odubajo, the only one of those who’s actually been a success in the position previously, was shocking. 
Rash tackles, he was an accident waiting to happen. How many 40 yard balls did Hector ping in behind him Don’t recall him creating a single opportunity going forward either. Harris, Murphy and Reach have absolutely no awareness of the defensive positions they need to take up. I like Murphy, but his best stuff was when he operated as a right winger from the bench

If the forwards gave me the space and room they gave Hector I could "Ping" 40yd passes.

I thought we looked a better 'team' playing 3-5-2, the problem area was, and still is midfield, we simply do not have the player who have the energy to play that system + Banan, as good a player that he is, slows the game down, thus allowing the defence to get organised.

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15 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

 

I don’t think there’s any evidence to suggest that any of the wing backs tried were effective. Odubajo, the only one of those who’s actually been a success in the position previously, was shocking. 
Rash tackles, he was an accident waiting to happen. How many 40 yard balls did Hector ping in behind him Don’t recall him creating a single opportunity going forward either. Harris, Murphy and Reach have absolutely no awareness of the defensive positions they need to take up. I like Murphy, but his best stuff was when he operated as a right winger from the bench

I mostly agree with you, but I can see things in his game that I like. If he can get his confidence back, (same goes for Reach) and it gets the fans off their backs, I can see them both being integral parts in a 3-5-2 system.

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Harris is a waste of a shirt at wingback. Yes he tracks back but a wingback has to have quality on the ball. They generally can’t get forward far enough to cross from the byline so they tend to cross from further out (Murphy can do this, Harris can’t). I think they also need to have a decent passing range to be able to pick a pass from our defensive third to start attacks again this isn’t a strong point for Harris. For me Harris is a winger and should only be played as such.

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Has Monk said he wants to play 3-5-2? Apart from recently I can't think of any teams he's set up that way.

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It’s too easy to be critical of the wing backs in the 352 formation.

Saying Hector knocked 40 yd balls in behind one is not necessarily the wing backs fault.

 

If Hectors got the ball we have probably been attacking, you would expect your wing backs to be up the pitch with space behind them. It’s down to the wide centre backs to cover that space.

 

3 at the back can work .

You need the right players to play it and a lot of time on the training ground sorting it out.

 

I thought our problems were defensive ones caused by the wide centre backs not always getting into the right areas but more a totally porous midfield 3.

Too many times the opposition just strolled through the middle .

 

It can work but I think Monk will be recruiting with 433 in mind.

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51 minutes ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

hahaha. I thought he was really underrated 

 

He really wasn’t, in fact the opposite.

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1 minute ago, sonofbert2 said:

 

He really wasn’t, in fact the opposite.

We will have to agree to disagree, I remember him getting a lot of undue criticism throughtout his time at Wednesday

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1 minute ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

We will have to agree to disagree, I remember him getting a lot of undue criticism throughtout his time at Wednesday

 

Our crap bunch of bigfannies murdered him the other week and not for the first time since he went there.

 

Decent enough player for us but wouldn’t have him back.

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13 minutes ago, sonofbert2 said:

 

Our crap bunch of bigfannies murdered him the other week and not for the first time since he went there.

 

Decent enough player for us but wouldn’t have him back.

True, he's never looked good against us

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I must be easily pleased because I see Harris and Reach as very good wing-backs. Let’s not pretend we will be splashing cash this Summer. Those two are ours, costly, and they will likely be our wide pair on Sept 12th.

 

Im very happy with that. They both have stamina and pace, and can play either wing. I’d like to see roughly 80:20 of Reach left and Harris right, with some swapping over. 

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7 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

I must be easily pleased because I see Harris and Reach as very good wing-backs. Let’s not pretend we will be splashing cash this Summer. Those two are ours, costly, and they will likely be our wide pair on Sept 12th.

 

Im very happy with that. They both have stamina and pace, and can play either wing. I’d like to see roughly 80:20 of Reach left and Harris right, with some swapping over. 

I also think Reach would be good in that role. I think he needs to nail down a position and fast before he loses his identity. Being moved about the pitch is doing him no favours

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7 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

I must be easily pleased because I see Harris and Reach as very good wing-backs. Let’s not pretend we will be splashing cash this Summer. Those two are ours, costly, and they will likely be our wide pair on Sept 12th.

 

Im very happy with that. They both have stamina and pace, and can play either wing. I’d like to see roughly 80:20 of Reach left and Harris right, with some swapping over. 

Harris might make it, but on the right. Reach can’t tackle his way out of a paper bag. None of them have any defensive awareness of where they should be when we are defending

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6 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Harris might make it, but on the right. Reach can’t tackle his way out of a paper bag. None of them have any defensive awareness of where they should be when we are defending


Nope. Don’t agree with much of that.

 

Reach isn’t a great tackler but he did ok as LB so he’d be a fine LWB. Made for it.

 

Too much is made of tackling on here. How many genuine tackles to FBs make in the modern game, let alone WBs?

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Worked fine for Sheff U.

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Reach didn’t do OK at full back, he was dreadful, as he was at wing back If you don’t have positional awareness, and you are scared to tackle, why would you be considered for a wing back role?

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I doubt we will get many in, although we need players.   We are on the limit of P&S and we have to assume that we will have no income from fans for at least half a season which will have an effect on the budget.

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1 minute ago, sMacLean said:

Worked fine for Sheff U.

Yes, because their wing backs understand their defensive responsibilities, because both were previously full backs

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Just now, gurujuan said:

Yes, because their wing backs understand their defensive responsibilities, because both were previously full backs

 

This. 

 

Part of the reason we conceded so many goals and looked so open and were sucker punched was because Murphy and Harris aren't natural defensive wing backs. Their natural intention is to go forward and they haven't been trained for a young age to focus on the defensive side of the game. Positioning, tackling, working as a unit with the centre backs. I actually think they both tried hard and looked great going forward but defensively both looked uncomfortable and we suffered because of it. 

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3 hours ago, gurujuan said:

OK this is a conundrum for me, and one we need to sort out quickly as we need to get on with recruitment. If we are going to operate a three at the back system, then it’s crucial that we have proficient wing backs 

It’s not my preferred system, but if it’s the one Monk wants to use, then how can we best operate it. As far as I can see, we have one genuine wing back on our books, in Matt Penney. Harris and Reach have been tried there, but both have been found wanting defensively. Ditto Murphy when he was here. In fact Murphy’s better performances came when he was introduced from the bench His talents are wasted at wing back, in my opinion. I think Harris could possibly be converted into an effective wing back, but for that to work, I think he’d need to switch to the right. 
I have discounted Odubajo, as he was transfer listed, and unless his recall has changed the situation, he’s likely to be offloaded. I do feel using the likes of Harris, Murphy and Reach, is nothing more than a stop gap, so if proper wing backs are recruited, what would be the future for those wingers? As I see it, there is no role for wingers in the new system, other than perhaps as an impact sub

Are your eyes painted on? Harris has been better defensively than in the attacking third since he went to wing back!!

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1 minute ago, Dagmeister's Shadow said:

I think that Reach can be a very good player but is a bad fit for us at the present time. Probably would be best to sell him if there are any takers. We'd likely not recoup all that we paid but any fee plus the savings in wages could perhaps be invested better. It would be galling to see him flourish elsewhere though.

I think I agree, if we can get a few grand, we could invest it elsewhere

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