Carlos - Good luck

[mildatheart67]

If I just heard right he's on his travels again to manage in Brazil

Edited July 26, 2020 by mildatheart67

[pazowl55]

2 hours ago, Ozymandias Owl said:

 

I am no fan of either Monk or CC. Monk detonated our season over Christmas, but its fair to say, the contracts time bomb had already been set by CC, Paxam and DC by signing players who were looking for one last pay day.

 

The amound of money spent should have been an investment in the future of SWFC. It wasn't an investment, it was a gamblers meltdown.

 

Abdi, Boyd, Van Aken, Rhodes, David Jones, Mattias, Urby Vitorrio Diego Emanuelson - All signed by CC and flattered to deceive.

Carlos would have been told to get us promoted as soon as possible. I doubt even if he had said I think we should spend 5m on this player for the future he would have been allowed, as he seemed to only have players for the here and now.

[coopswfc76]

2 hours ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Carlos got us to 6th and 4th when our budget was around 10th and 8th in the division. Which season do you think he should have won the league in? His first season in English football when most of our fans didn't expect us to finish in the top 6 or his 2nd season when Newcastle had one of the most experienced managers ever to manager at this level and spent £140M in that 1 season alone? 

 

Ultimately he failed in the aim of the club at the time and the Huddersfield semi-final was hugely disappointing but can't tell me Monk would have done or is doing a better job, relatively speaking.

 

We will have less of that talking sense and speaking the truth on here.

Carlos is slightly behind Yorkshire Ripper in some peoples opinions on here.

[bigthinrob]

12 hours ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Fair enough. I agree the money spent on players we didn't need has set us back big time but I am not sure I wold lay too much of that blame at Carlos' door. Time and time again people state that our transfer decisions are not made by the managers and the length of contracts and salaries are certainly not decisions taken by any of our managers. 

 

I thought David Jones did OK for a time but there were probably younger prospects we should have been considering who could have done a more effective job and had a resale value. Mattias was a reasonable gamble at the time. 

Every other one of the players you list were players we didn't need and there were other areas the team could have been improved in. I don't think for one minute that Carlos told the owner and whoever was on the 'transfer committee' at the time to go out and buy Emanuelson - he never looked like having any intention of using him regularly - and I don't think he was the only player this applies to.

Couple of excellent posts mate.

 

I love the way that as soon as you throw a few facts in the direction of the "with the money Carlos spent we should have done etc etc" brigade, they change the point of the argument. 

 

Also it's hilarious that some of our fans who say they 'have waited long enough & been patient for too long & now demand success', now say (in hindsight) we should have invested for "The future".

 

I suppose once the 'jury' has sat in judgement & passed their verdict, The 'accused' is guilty on both counts regradless.

 

 

[dorian gray]

On 25/07/2020 at 09:07, Plonk said:

Wouldnt want him back, don’t wish him ill and good luck to him.

 

But I really don’t understand this Monk is clearing up Carlos’ mess argument. 

 

I knew he left a mess behind, but there have been two managers in between. If it’s supposedly “ the same squad” well CC took that squad to two top six finishes. Jo’s turned it into a relegation side, Bruce. Got it going again, and might have made it a third top six finish ( I said might we will n3ver know) and Monk has turned it into a relegation side.

 

so if it’s the same squad why have two managers done ok and two done crap, and if it’s not then you can’t really still blame Carlos. The real shame is Bruce didn’t hang about long enough to prove the theory. 

carlos turned it into a relegation side, and then ran off. credit where it's due.

[dorian gray]

On 25/07/2020 at 09:17, TodwickOwl said:

Personally, a manager with personality already adds that extra ten percent for me and Carlos had that, breathed it into the club and fans and players and we all got on board.

 

I can’t imagine working for a gaffer as dull as Monk. Must be monotonous listening everyday. 

bank balance, trophy cabinet, BOTH EMPTY.

[dorian gray]

9 minutes ago, bigthinrob said:

Couple of excellent posts mate.

 

I love the way that as soon as you throw a few facts in the direction of the "with the money Carlos spent we should have done etc etc" brigade, they change the point of the argument. 

 

Also it's hilarious that some of our fans who say they 'have waited long enough & been patient for too long & now demand success', now say (in hindsight) we should have invested for "The future".

 

I suppose once the 'jury' has sat in judgement & passed their verdict, The 'accused' is guilty on both counts regradless.

 

 

coco was a charlatan, and snake oil salesman, you're all miffed because you've a garage and spare room full of snake oil.

[bigthinrob]

Just now, dorian gray said:

coco was a charlatan, and snake oil salesman, you're all miffed because you've a garage and spare room full of snake oil.

As Alan Partridge once said..

 

"Strangest thing i've ever heard" .

[dorian gray]

1 minute ago, bigthinrob said:

As Alan Partridge once said..

 

"Strangest thing i've ever heard" .

it will be to you, it's meant for others to laugh at whilst 'some' are puzzled.

he was in the hot seat, talking double dutch whilst the club's best opportunity for decades was blown, and God only knows how many decades to come before another one arrives?

it could be the only one for 40 plus years, and just look at the qualifications he had?

any cv with more than 10 pages in it should have gone in the bin.

[Animis]

Watched the El loco - Bielsa documentary on Sky.

 

His training methods were and are relentless with fitness; tactics and technique drilled into the players . Whilst I have no idea on what CC's methods were, the feedback over time from players was the opposite.

 

Results ultimately show which teams succeed, and the shambles of the players fitness by the end of 2017; particularly in the Huddersfield semi should be a lessen to all those who thought he was a harmless cheeky chappie.

[bigthinrob]

12 minutes ago, dorian gray said:

it will be to you, it's meant for others to laugh at whilst 'some' are puzzled.

he was in the hot seat, talking double dutch whilst the club's best opportunity for decades was blown, and God only knows how many decades to come before another one arrives?

it could be the only one for 40 plus years, and just look at the qualifications he had?

any cv with more than 10 pages in it should have gone in the bin.

Ahh the 'enigma' that is 'Dorian Gray'.  Some 'don't understand', some will 'laugh' and some are 'puzzled', & some may 'pretend to not understand'.   

 

Whilst not exactly Oscar Wilde, as Billy Bright said to the Turk in football factory.  "You're more fuc*in confused than Scooby fuc*n Doo".

 

 

 

As for the club's "Best Opportunity for decades".

 

I don't disagree, but didn't CC create this opportunity himself? 

 

The mythical fortunes he spent in the first year when he got us to Wembley totally unexpectedly, are just that, myths. The actual figures were very well pointed out in a previous post. by 'Hirstyboywonder' who pretty much nailed it, so no need for my to add anything really.

 

If you want to lay EVERYTHING at CCs door then fine. 

 

I & seemingly other's want to take a more balanced, even handed view.

 

 

[Carbone]

22 minutes ago, Animis said:

Watched the El loco - Bielsa documentary on Sky.

 

His training methods were and are relentless with fitness; tactics and technique drilled into the players . Whilst I have no idea on what CC's methods were, the feedback over time from players was the opposite.

 

Results ultimately show which teams succeed, and the shambles of the players fitness by the end of 2017; particularly in the Huddersfield semi should be a lessen to all those who thought he was a harmless cheeky chappie.

But we’ve still had massive issues with fitness long after Carlos has left, that suggests he wasn’t the problem. Truth is after the Huddersfield defeat we needed (and still do) a massive re-build to bring in younger fitter players. A manager needs to be backed by his chairman to carry that out, and so far none of our managers have been backed to do it, the sooner everyone realises Mr Chansiri is more responsible for our downfall than anyone else, the better 

[Carbone]

2 minutes ago, bigthinrob said:

Ahh the 'enigma' that is 'Dorian Gray'.  Some 'don't understand', some will 'laugh' and some are 'puzzled', & some may 'pretend to not understand'.   

 

Whilst not exactly Oscar Wilde, as Billy Bright said to the Turk in football factory.  "You're more fuc*in confused than Scooby fuc*n Doo".

 

 

 

As for the club's "Best Opportunity for decades".

 

I don't disagree, but didn't CC create this opportunity himself? 

 

The mythical fortunes he spent in the first year when he got us to Wembley totally unexpectedly, are just that, myths. The actual figures were very well pointed out in a previous post. by 'Hirstyboywonder' who pretty much nailed it, so no need for my to add anything really.

 

If you want to lay EVERYTHING at CCs door then fine. 

 

I & seemingly other's want to take a more balanced, even handed view.

 

 

Absolutely mate.

 

”Carlos bottled it and everything is his fault” just seems to lack any actual thinking doesn’t it. We still have some fans who think Fletcher was taken off to go defensive, when in fact he was injured.. We were absolutely crippled for that second leg, I can’t believe people just think it was all down to tactics what happened.

[Animis]

33 minutes ago, Carbone said:

But we’ve still had massive issues with fitness long after Carlos has left, that suggests he wasn’t the problem. Truth is after the Huddersfield defeat we needed (and still do) a massive re-build to bring in younger fitter players. A manager needs to be backed by his chairman to carry that out, and so far none of our managers have been backed to do it, the sooner everyone realises Mr Chansiri is more responsible for our downfall than anyone else, the better 

 

Yes - a manager's job is also recruitment, and we'll never know what part CC played in this throughout his tenure.

 

You are suggesting CC played no part in this, which I find hard to accept. If true, it says more about CC than the owner, as we know the owner is unconventional and most find his links with Doyen/Paxo questionable. I'd rather managers say forget it, I pick the players out and the club buys them. Maybe this is why we've struggled with manager recruitment and retention, and why we've ended up with Monk.

[Carbone]

26 minutes ago, Animis said:

 

Yes - a manager's job is also recruitment, and we'll never know what part CC played in this throughout his tenure.

 

You are suggesting CC played no part in this, which I find hard to accept. If true, it says more about CC than the owner, as we know the owner is unconventional and most find his links with Doyen/Paxo questionable. I'd rather managers say forget it, I pick the players out and the club buys them. Maybe this is why we've struggled with manager recruitment and retention, and why we've ended up with Monk.

 

Carlos was hired head coach and not manager. Head coach means you have an input and suggest targets but not an active ongoing involvement in recruitment.

 

I know after the first season, we rarely signed CC's first choice players, often he was working with his 4th+ choice of player. I know he wanted to sell players too and Chansiri wanted stupid money for players, like £6m for Liam Palmer. 

 

This won't be rare at clubs, that a manager doesn't get his first choice players for sure, but for me it tells you all you need to know when you look how few players we've sold since Chansiri bought us.

[bladeshater]

1 hour ago, Carbone said:

But we’ve still had massive issues with fitness long after Carlos has left, that suggests he wasn’t the problem. Truth is after the Huddersfield defeat we needed (and still do) a massive re-build to bring in younger fitter players. A manager needs to be backed by his chairman to carry that out, and so far none of our managers have been backed to do it, the sooner everyone realises Mr Chansiri is more responsible for our downfall than anyone else, the better 

Chansiri as backed every manager at he as employed

[Carbone]

1 minute ago, bladeshater said:

Chansiri as backed every manager at he as employed

 

Backed means more than signing a player.

[bladeshater]

1 hour ago, Carbone said:

 

Backed means more than signing a player.

Your right monk needs time chansiri will back him 

[dorian gray]

2 hours ago, bigthinrob said:

Ahh the 'enigma' that is 'Dorian Gray'.  Some 'don't understand', some will 'laugh' and some are 'puzzled', & some may 'pretend to not understand'.   

 

Whilst not exactly Oscar Wilde, as Billy Bright said to the Turk in football factory.  "You're more fuc*in confused than Scooby fuc*n Doo".

 

 

 

As for the club's "Best Opportunity for decades".

 

I don't disagree, but didn't CC create this opportunity himself? 

 

The mythical fortunes he spent in the first year when he got us to Wembley totally unexpectedly, are just that, myths. The actual figures were very well pointed out in a previous post. by 'Hirstyboywonder' who pretty much nailed it, so no need for my to add anything really.

 

If you want to lay EVERYTHING at CCs door then fine. 

 

I & seemingly other's want to take a more balanced, even handed view.

 

 

i'm not confused in any way whatsoever, but you're by now very much grasping at straws.

your champion, your hero, was a charlatan, but you don't want to hear that, do you?

you refuse to see he was in charge when the best financial chance that SWFC had in the last 20 some years was squandered.

you refuse to see that at wembley he stood frozen like a rabbit in car headlights as bruce had his way.

what we, or anyone else can call, or label the 'uddersfield debacle i just don't know, in a **** or bust situation, once again he froze like a man completely out of his depth.

spending 'mythical fortunes' cannot get you into trouble with the efl, spending real ones can, and have, and if you think the spending was 'mythical, maybe you can explain our appearance in front of the tribunal better?

i and others who take a more balanced, and even handed view, see now your hero was a clown, but to you still worthy of high rating.

unfortunately despite his 'suggestions' on air that he'd like to manage in england again, there are no takers, so from your point of view is the rest of football wrong as well as me?

[dorian gray]

2 hours ago, Carbone said:

But we’ve still had massive issues with fitness long after Carlos has left, that suggests he wasn’t the problem. Truth is after the Huddersfield defeat we needed (and still do) a massive re-build to bring in younger fitter players. A manager needs to be backed by his chairman to carry that out, and so far none of our managers have been backed to do it, the sooner everyone realises Mr Chansiri is more responsible for our downfall than anyone else, the better 

yes we did. 

an ageing squad, with little physical training, and injured further through playing when not fit, and not fully recovered, will take a long time to get back to fitness when the manager runs off as the side crashes down the table. 

for some unknown to step in and try to stabilise the free fall whilst getting the squad back to some form of fitness is a huge ask, i cannot recall it being asked before of any manager?

we needed to rebuild far before the 'uddersfield shambles.

he was backed by the chairman better than any wednesday manager since premier times.

we should be thankful that mr. chansiri has stepped up and funded that wasted effort, he was not well advised.

the list of potential managers offered to him were very tempting names indeed, only for each name to be just out of our reach, until BINGO! we land one, and boy did we land one.

it's like trying to buy a top notch car, we're getting a roller, oh it's gone, a ferrari, oh that's gone too, an amg merc. nope gone again, 911? lost out on it, yippee! landed one, got us a trabant, now for some expensive alloys and a sports exhaust.