Carlos - Good luck

[dorian gray]

2 hours ago, Carbone said:

 

Carlos was hired head coach and not manager. Head coach means you have an input and suggest targets but not an active ongoing involvement in recruitment.

I know after the first season, we rarely signed CC's first choice players, often he was working with his 4th+ choice of player. I know he wanted to sell players too and Chansiri wanted stupid money for players,
like £6m for Liam Palmer. 

This won't be rare at clubs, that a manager doesn't get his first choice players for sure, but for me it tells you all you need to know when you look how few players we've sold since Chansiri bought us.

when did we drop £6m on liam palmer???

and to who?

[bigthinrob]

1 hour ago, dorian gray said:

i'm not confused in any way whatsoever, but you're by now very much grasping at straws.

your champion, your hero, was a charlatan, but you don't want to hear that, do you?

you refuse to see he was in charge when the best financial chance that SWFC had in the last 20 some years was squandered.

you refuse to see that at wembley he stood frozen like a rabbit in car headlights as bruce had his way.

what we, or anyone else can call, or label the 'uddersfield debacle i just don't know, in a **** or bust situation, once again he froze like a man completely out of his depth.

spending 'mythical fortunes' cannot get you into trouble with the efl, spending real ones can, and have, and if you think the spending was 'mythical, maybe you can explain our appearance in front of the tribunal better?

i and others who take a more balanced, and even handed view, see now your hero was a clown, but to you still worthy of high rating.

unfortunately despite his 'suggestions' on air that he'd like to manage in england again, there are no takers, so from your point of view is the rest of football wrong as well as me?

 You misunderstand and also incidentally, fall, for the same misconception that a lot seem to fall for, that is, that everything is jet black or pearly white. No in between.

 

There seems to be no comprehension that there may, unbelievably to people like you, a middle ground. That CC or DC or FF or whoever the debate at any given time is about, may NOT be a hero to someone, but by the same token may NOT be some sort of pariah in their eyes either.

 

I appreciated what Carlos did (especially in his first year) which was fairly unprecedented in our recent history (and totally unexpected) but that does not make him beyond criticism either. 

 

Ron Atkinson was accused of being a "Judas" by people who took the same 'black & white' viewpoint.  

 

Same with Mr Chansiri. If you defend him in any way you are somehow a "Chansiri Fan" or as some idiot said the other day on here a "Chansiri apologist". 

 

Is it not possible to appreciate the efforts DC has made whilst also acknowledging at the same time, the mistakes he has made?

 

 Is it also beyond reason that people can acknowledge the mistakes he has made whilst grudgingly accepting he made them for the right reasons and at the same time acknowledging the investment from his own pocket that has been forthcoming. 

 

Same with Forestieri. Do you have to love him or hate him?  No in between. No acknowledgement of a slightly flawed genius with a bit of Latin temperament thrown in who Yes, refused to get on the bus to Norwich but also had the worst run of decisions against him I have ever seen.

 

Oops sorry. I've defended all three. That must make me a CarloschansiriForestieri apologist / lover. 

 

You also ought to appreciate that not everything goes to plan and the fact that you have GOT to a certain destination, does NOT guarantee you achieve your objective, especially in this situation when you come across a Bruce team (Hull) that was awash with superior player's in just about every position, acquired with previous failure payments when we had spent relative peanuts.

 

You change the narrative to suit your own narrow revisionist version of history.

 

 

 

 

 

[Carbone]

2 hours ago, dorian gray said:

 

an ageing squad, with little physical training, and injured further through playing when not fit, and not fully recovered, will take a long time to get back to fitness when the manager runs off as the side crashes down the table. 

 

 

Well you can take that up with our physios, who have to declare players fit to play, not the head coach/manager.

[dorian gray]

1 hour ago, Carbone said:

 

Well you can take that up with our physios, who have to declare players fit to play, not the head coach/manager.

i imagine a manager IF in need can ask the player to play if it's touch and go, as for overall fitness training not being up to the mark, is that someone else to blame too?

[dorian gray]

1 hour ago, bigthinrob said:

 You misunderstand and also incidentally, fall, for the same misconception that a lot seem to fall for, that is, that everything is jet black or pearly white. No in between.

 

There seems to be no comprehension that there may, unbelievably to people like you, a middle ground. That CC or DC or FF or whoever the debate at any given time is about, may NOT be a hero to someone, but by the same token may NOT be some sort of pariah in their eyes either.

 

I appreciated what Carlos did (especially in his first year) which was fairly unprecedented in our recent history (and totally unexpected) but that does not make him beyond criticism either. 

 

Ron Atkinson was accused of being a "Judas" by people who took the same 'black & white' viewpoint.  

 

Same with Mr Chansiri. If you defend him in any way you are somehow a "Chansiri Fan" or as some idiot said the other day on here a "Chansiri apologist". 

 

Is it not possible to appreciate the efforts DC has made whilst also acknowledging at the same time, the mistakes he has made?

 

 Is it also beyond reason that people can acknowledge the mistakes he has made whilst grudgingly accepting he made them for the right reasons and at the same time acknowledging the investment from his own pocket that has been forthcoming. 

 

Same with Forestieri. Do you have to love him or hate him?  No in between. No acknowledgement of a slightly flawed genius with a bit of Latin temperament thrown in who Yes, refused to get on the bus to Norwich but also had the worst run of decisions against him I have ever seen.

 

Oops sorry. I've defended all three. That must make me a CarloschansiriForestieri apologist / lover. 

 

You also ought to appreciate that not everything goes to plan and the fact that you have GOT to a certain destination, does NOT guarantee you achieve your objective, especially in this situation when you come across a Bruce team (Hull) that was awash with superior player's in just about every position, acquired with previous failure payments when we had spent relative peanuts.

 

You change the narrative to suit your own narrow revisionist version of history.

 

 

 

 

 

i agree with some elements of your post, but as for my 'narrow revisionist version of history', i like to think i am capable of seeing both ends of a situation.

as with carlos he was a bullsh***er as a manager, but a very good clown, as by the end he had everyone laughing at us.

[bigthinrob]

2 minutes ago, dorian gray said:

i agree with some elements of your post, but as for my 'narrow revisionist version of history', i like to think i am capable of seeing both ends of a situation.

as with carlos he was a bullsh***er as a manager, but a very good clown, as by the end he had everyone laughing at us.

I thought you'd gone all reasonable then mate.

 

Then it all went sort of,      well,       sort of contradictory.

 

Doesn't exactly smack of "Seeing both sides" to be fair.  

 

  

[DSandersonOWL]

54 minutes ago, dorian gray said:

i agree with some elements of your post, but as for my 'narrow revisionist version of history', i like to think i am capable of seeing both ends of a situation.

as with carlos he was a bullsh***er as a manager, but a very good clown, as by the end he had everyone laughing at us.

Swansea were not laughing at us, they took him on, and (typically) he did very well - at first. 

[Carbone]

4 hours ago, dorian gray said:

i imagine a manager IF in need can ask the player to play if it's touch and go, as for overall fitness training not being up to the mark, is that someone else to blame too?

Yep that’s the physios and fitness coaches, let me know if you need anything else 

[@owlstalk]

10 hours ago, bladeshater said:

Your right monk needs time chansiri will back him 

 

[beswetherick]

He’s leaving Rio Ave to join Braga

[Guest Therealrealist]

He’s probably too big for us now..we can only attract the lukays and monks of this world..sad times

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, Therealrealist said:

He’s probably too big for us now..we can only attract the lukays and monks of this world..sad times

 

[mildatheart67]

Carlos to manage Braga, home time club.

 

[@owlstalk]

3 minutes ago, mildatheart67 said:

Carlos to manage Braga, home time club.

 

 

 

Crikey - he's racking up his boyhood clubs during his career isn't he?

What a guy...

 

[mildatheart67]

Was going to post the same, maybe he lived in a circus  family as a nipper.

He did play for em in 3 different periods 

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by mildatheart67

[mildatheart67]

Think that's 19 teams managed in 22 years.

Lads a gad about

[Andrew6666]

On 27/07/2020 at 12:35, Carbone said:

 

Carlos was hired head coach and not manager. Head coach means you have an input and suggest targets but not an active ongoing involvement in recruitment.

 

I know after the first season, we rarely signed CC's first choice players, often he was working with his 4th+ choice of player. I know he wanted to sell players too and Chansiri wanted stupid money for players, like £6m for Liam Palmer. 

 

This won't be rare at clubs, that a manager doesn't get his first choice players for sure, but for me it tells you all you need to know when you look how few players we've sold since Chansiri bought us.

Could you enlighten us to who his first choices were, seen as you know?

I would be interested to hear who he wanted and which players were 4th choice.

[quinnssweetshop]

23 hours ago, bigthinrob said:

 You misunderstand and also incidentally, fall, for the same misconception that a lot seem to fall for, that is, that everything is jet black or pearly white. No in between.

 

Just a quick question.

What did we achieve with Carlos ? I'm not talking about hypothetical placement in the league etc.
 

What real success did we have ?

 

Easy answer that one - NONE

Honours and Success are black and white. You win, or lose. That's what football is about.

It is not a game of " everyone's a winner " Let's be pleased for a place higher this year.
 

[Lincs Owl]

Under CC, Rio Ave won 2-0 at Boavista and have achieved their highest position in their entire history.

Under him we achieved our highest position for 16 years, and then bettered it the season after.

 

And yet folk on here still call him a clown and fraud, apparently because we only drew with tinpot Huddersfield.   Here in Lincolnshire, most folk know nothing about Sheff Wed.  We are, sadly, tinpot ourselves nowadays.

 

 

[Frazzlebeak]

1 minute ago, Lincs Owl said:

Under CC, Rio Ave won 2-0 at Boavista and have achieved their highest position in their entire history.

Under him we achieved our highest position for 16 years, and then bettered it the season after.

 

And yet folk on here still call him a clown and fraud, apparently because we only drew with tinpot Huddersfield.   Here in Lincolnshire, most folk know nothing about Sheff Wed.  We are, sadly, tinpot ourselves nowadays.

 

 

That's because he was. He's gone, say goodbye. He tried he failed. Next.