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Have to give a manager time..


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11 minutes ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

Been saying it for few years now, the fans want to see instant progress, they will give the manager six months if they aren't in the top six then the baying starts.

 

Not a fan of Monks in particular, but he's just had a clear out with hints of further players leaving, so do we really want to bring in a new manager at such a crucial time?

 

 

 

 

 

Don't expect instant success at all, but don't expect to be relegated either

 

Not baying for Monks head because he hasn't got us promoted, but because of the performances and the fact i think he will get us relegated next season

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24 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

The majority of our season tickets are usually sold as renewals before the 1st price deadline. This had already been reached before COVID-9 took effect in this country, the club are usually quick to announce when sales have gone well, it was ominously quiet on this front in February, Monk's style of play, particularly at home and the performances Dec-Feb will already have had a negative affect on sales and this combined with the virus, the fact we still have a potential deduction to come and the continued decline of performances and what is left of the squad will see our lowest season ticket sales for some time. 

Completely agree, at the time of sale the product they were trying to sell was not worth the time or cost. Massive own goal if DC persists with Monk in charge imo

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5 minutes ago, the third man said:

Don't expect instant success at all, but don't expect to be relegated either

 

Not baying for Monks head because he hasn't got us promoted, but because of the performances and the fact i think he will get us relegated next season

 

 

 So long are you prepared to give a manager before you want him out?  Say we were midtable after twenty odd games?  Difficult to answer I guess.

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1 hour ago, Spondon Owl said:

There's a number of times I've seen this mentioned in threads. I guess the question i ask is why?

 

There are 25 manages by my count who have served at their respective clubs for over 2 years across the PL and the EFL. 25. Monk is approaching 1 year in the job. As examples or reference points: 

 

Bielsa -  2 years 38 days

Parker - 1 year 146 days

Cooper - 1 year 40 days

 

How long does someone need in the job to indicate that a longer tenure would bring benefit? Id say a year should be enough to see what style that person wants to imprint on a club, even if it wont be fully implemented, to understand the qualities they demand from the squad and to see how they tactically approach tricky situations. Monk has shown me nothing positive. But is 321 days simply not enough with "this mammoth task" that people suggest he has had on his hands?

 

You can give a bad manager all the time in the world and it won't make him a good one. 

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17 minutes ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

Depends on how you define improvements I suppose, are we in a better place now that we have cleared the desks for a new intake?

I guess, but those players would have been gone anyway, we can’t class that as an improvement until we see who he has replaced them with His January dealings do not inspire confidence on that front. Hopefully, this now his time to prove us wrong, but the fact remains, as of now, there are no signs that he has improved us. The mood might have been a lot different, had the halves been in reverse. Had we shown our post Christmas form when he took over, only to steadily improve in the second half, as he got his ideas across, I think we would have been full of optimism right now

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41 minutes ago, TheEnchanter said:

The time it'd take to sack Monk and hire a new manager with the challenge of getting a new team together in 48 days indicates Monk will be in charge come Sept 12th. 

It would literally take 5 minutes to sack Monk.

 

Hello Garry its Dejphon here.

We have been reviewing performances and results since Xmas and decided that they haven't been good enough unfortunately.

With regret we have decided to go in another direction so will be terminating your contract.

My legal team will be in touch to discuss the terms of your departure.

I'd like to thank you for all your hard work and efforts in the last 10 months and wish you all the best in future endeavours.

If you can spend the next couple of hrs cleaning out your desk and saying your goodbyes to the staff, I'll have somebody escort you off site once finished.

Ive now got an important meeting with somebody who is going to bake us another giant cakeball.

 

If the Chairman is doing his job properly then he should have already reached out to prospective new candidates and got an outline agreement on backroom staff, budgets likely player targets ready to go with the short close season in mind.

 

Thats how I would expect a proper chairman to act to protect the best interests of the football club and in turn his investment in it.

 

Unfortunately DC has shown himself to be anything but capable in this regard over the last 5 years.

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2 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

I guess, but those players would have been gone anyway, we can’t class that as an improvement until we see who he has replaced them with His January dealings do not inspire confidence on that front. Hopefully, this now his time to prove us wrong, but the fact remains, as of now, there are no signs that he has improved us. The mood might have been a lot different, had the halves been in reverse. Had we shown our post Christmas form when he took over, only to steadily improve in the second half, as he got his ideas across, I think we would have been full of optimism right now

 

Yeah, like Carlos he got it the wrong way round.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, George said:

It’s long enough to males start and develop a culture. He does not need to have created the finished article yet but he needs to have shown some positive signs.

 

He hasn’t.


This nails it for me, I have been a supporter of Monk as much as the next man but I’ve been really disappointed with what he’s served up since Christmas. 
 

Besides giving 3? Youngsters a go in the first team (Hunt, Shaw and Urhoghide) I can’t see anything else good that he’s done?

Im willing to believe that he inherited some negative influences in the squad that he feels he’s had to weed out, but I still expect better from what he’s had to work with.  
 

I think once the EFL charge is known it’s the right time to change the whole coaching setup and bring in a new team to give it a fresh start.  But that probably won’t happen 

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One that paid off was Farke at Norwich. They were very much lower mid-table and a lot of fans wanted him gone. Even started the following season disappointingly, then all of a sudden it clicked and they went up as Champions, with a relatively average squad on paper. Obviously got found out in the Prem (note the board didn’t spend much to stay up). 


I can’t see that happening with Monk as any new manager will need to bring in an almost entirely new first 11 here (7 or 8 at least). 

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I have a few questions

1. How long realistically can we go on blaming Carlos for everything that Monk gets wrong? He is a great peg to hang all blame on, I just wonder if we can stretch it into the 2020s - 30s, maybe into 2040s?

 

2. How do we stop future chroniclers of SWFC from saying, based on money spent v other clubs and our recent history, that Carlos was one of our best managers? Surely if that happens we will all look like idiots for hounding him out and harping on constantly about how 'its all his fault'

 

3 Is it feasible for all us 'Carlos haters and Monk lovers' to simply invert the league table? That way under Monk we have been making great progress.

 

4 To launch a new promotion push could we sell at  say, 10k, membership of the 'Footballing friends of Monk' it would be onsale to everyone at present and past clubs of Monk and would be very, very exclusive.

 

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1 hour ago, Silkstone Owl said:

Monk talks a good game 

 

unfortunately it doesn’t transfer to the pitch for whatever reason 

 

I still think the players have a lot to answer for the last 6 months 

6 months? They’ve been taking the p*ss for at least two years.

 

players are the problem, not Monk. Hopefully he can prove this if he is allowed to bring in his own type of player.

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1 hour ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

Depends on how you define improvements I suppose, are we in a better place now that we have cleared the desks for a new intake?

Think the question should be are we in a better place now than we took over. That’s a massive no for me, we are in a far worse place. In another thread I said cast your minds back to last pre season before Bruce walked to where we are now. I could cry. 

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56 minutes ago, Kew Owl said:

The longest serving manager across the whole of the 4 divisions is Gareth Ainsworth at Wycombe.

 

Remind me, someone please, did they have a successful season ?

 

Ainsworth is an interesting example. When he was appointed (as player-manager), they'd made a bad start to the 2012-13 season, having just been relegated from League One. He stopped the rot and they finished 15th. But in 2013-14 they stayed up on goal difference. At one stage, they picked up 11 points (1 win, 8 draws) from 18 games.

 

However,  Ainsworth wasn't sacked, and in 2014-15 Wycombe reached the playoff final. After a good start to 2015-16, their form dipped and they finished 13th. But they started 2016/17 badly, and were 21st at the start of November with 16 points from 15 games, or 20 from their last 23 counting the last 8 games from the previous season. An impatient club might have sacked him, but they didn't and won 8 of their next 9. They finished 9th.

 

In 2017/18, they got promoted. In 2018/19 he obviously had a lot of credit in the bank, so he was always unlikely to be sacked, but they did start badly, with 9 points (1 win, 6 draws) from their first 11 games. They then took 22 from their next 10. In their last 24 games of the season, however, they switched back to relegation form again, picking up 21 points, including a dreadful run of 1 point from 10 games, which took them down to 20th, 1 place above the relegation zone. In the end, they finished 17th.

 

In 2019/20, of course, they were promoted, thanks mainly to their first 20 games, of which they lost just 1, picking up 43 points. In their last 14 games before the season was abandoned, they picked up just 16 points. In terms of average points per game, I think, that's actually a worse drop-off in form than ours from matches 1-23 to matches 23-46.

 

In short, Ainsworth could quite easily have been sacked on several occasions during his time at Wycombe so far.

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48 minutes ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

 So long are you prepared to give a manager before you want him out?  Say we were midtable after twenty odd games?  Difficult to answer I guess.

 

No problem with a manger coming in who stabilizes us, but we have given Monk 2 thirds of a season, if there were signs of improvement, no problem, but there aren't, he got rid of the so called bad apples, and we were worse

 

He thinks Cruz and JP are our future, if so the future is bleak

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2 minutes ago, Sova said:

 

Ainsworth is an interesting example. When he was appointed (as player-manager), they'd made a bad start to the 2012-13 season, having just been relegated from League One. He stopped the rot and they finished 15th. But in 2013-14 they stayed up on goal difference. At one stage, they picked up 11 points (1 win, 8 draws) from 18 games.

 

However,  Ainsworth wasn't sacked, and in 2014-15 Wycombe reached the playoff final. After a good start to 2015-16, their form dipped and they finished 13th. But they started 2016/17 badly, and were 21st at the start of November with 16 points from 15 games, or 20 from their last 23 counting the last 8 games from the previous season. An impatient club might have sacked him, but they didn't and won 8 of their next 9. They finished 9th.

 

In 2017/18, they got promoted. In 2018/19 he obviously had a lot of credit in the bank, so he was always unlikely to be sacked, but they did start badly, with 9 points (1 win, 6 draws) from their first 11 games. They then took 22 from their next 10. In their last 24 games of the season, however, they switched back to relegation form again, picking up 21 points, including a dreadful run of 1 point from 10 games, which took them down to 20th, 1 place above the relegation zone. In the end, they finished 17th.

 

In 2019/20, of course, they were promoted, thanks mainly to their first 20 games, of which they lost just 1, picking up 43 points. In their last 14 games before the season was abandoned, they picked up just 16 points. In terms of average points per game, I think, that's actually a worse drop-off in form than ours from matches 1-23 to matches 23-46.

 

In short, Ainsworth could quite easily have been sacked on several occasions during his time at Wycombe so far.

 

i had no problem not sacking Atkinson when he took us down, because you could see something was there, i just cant anything from Monk at all

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