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Spondon Owl

Have to give a manager time..

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Posted (edited)

Poor record, worse than luhukay, irvine, turner etc. Poor football, poor selections, tactics, subs etc etc.

 

Maybe its not all his fault but evidence is he clearly can't make the best of what he's got, and the evidence also shows he has short stints ending in failures/sackings.

 

Started promising after promising signs under bruce, but that was a disastrous bottom of table showing since xmas, another terrible appointment by dc.

 

Doesn't seem the brightest either imo, but can't be arsed to argue about opinions to the incredibly high 30% who seem to back him!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ash77

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On 25/07/2020 at 09:22, Dizzys Dad said:

 Alex Ferguson took an age to get Man Utd going. Rumoured to be one game from being sacked at one point. 

it was after we had beat them in the Rumbelows final 

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1 hour ago, Ronio said:

Appreciate you have given a reply. 

 

Points 1 and 2 don't specifically answer the question of why should Monk be given more time.

 

Point 3, I don't judge Monk's time at Birmingham as a success.  He was sacked and his own backroom staff decided to keep their jobs at Birmingham, suggesting to me that Monk was the problem.  It is constantly suggested on here that Monk needs his own coaching staff.  The reality is, he doesn't have any, not after what happened at Birmingham.  I'm not sure how Monk's time at Birmingham is considered a success, when his own backroom staff effectively ditched him.  

 

Point 4, Monk was one of the most successful Leeds managers?  Having done what exactly?  You say his time there was a success without mentioning what he had actually achieved that could be considered a success.  

 

Point 5, I have no idea what you have written there, doesn't read well.  

Like i said i have given my reasons MANY times and they are there to critique/accept as you wish.Not sure your own critique is valid TBF though i accept your views

'Language is a site of struggle,over MEANING' (VOLUSHINOV.) To me,its clear enough,but i will try to clarify:

 

(1) The club(with points deduction pending,simply HAD to keep Championship status,Monk as Manager,has achieved that.In my view(said this MANY times NO ONE is prepared to accept we could have been relegation fodder) that was all that was realistically achievable,given the Clubs troubles.(personally i never thought automatic promotion was on,and expected us to drift from play off places,,didnt expect what we got,obviously)  Thought Monk overachieved in the first 23....didnt expect it to continue,& the Fletcher injury started the rot...

 

(2) Money is how point 2,is relevent Chansiri himself reflected that Monk had built a team from next to nothing & competed at Birmingham,when he appointed him,he has also in his career brought on & identified decent players and sold them on,at a profiting my view Chansiri also would have had one eye on any potential EFL.sanctions ,knowing Monk had dealt with that too,without being relegated...

The money(or lack of it) has now been exasperated by new COVID 19 rules on late season start,& only 25% capacity gate reciepts...Accounts havnt been published as yet,and FFP rules will still apply,so any cashflow issues will effect Wednesday & their managers ability to bring in Players.Monk has a history of dealing with such.

(3) point 3 is self explanatory,you simply dont agree that dealing with a points deduction,and keeping a Club in the Championship,amounts to ;success',,I DO

 

Point( 4) if you look at Monks time at Leeds his side won and drew,way more than any other Leeds Managers side in the last decade(Bielsa aside) I have previously posted the link,and he got his Leeds side playing well,before dropping off...Most agree he over achieved.That is why i say his record is comparable.(and food for thought why he deserves a further chance at Wednesday)

 

,However i see the 'rebuild' as thus:  Season 1 & 2.Avoid relegation & maintain Championship status & overcome points deduction pending.(whilst hopefully bringing in new affordable hungry Players)

Season 3 to 5,hopefully have a pop at the playoffs,/Automatic promotion,whilst at the same time staying within EFL guidelines on FFP.(and thus avoiding further sanctions)

Why Monk? i have said why....you dont agree fair enough..

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28 minutes ago, Dagmeister's Shadow said:

Dawson and Wildsmith are at an age where criticism is part and parcel. No problem. The Wanky Wildsmith and Calamity Cam type bollix from certain Westwood fans veers from analytical criticism though (not you). Some of Westwood's gaffes before being dropped however were glaringly the worst we've seen from any of our keepers this season. The real issue though is that Westwood effectively ruled himself out for selection by being injured as he is prone to do when being asked to play second fiddle for a while, rather than as a result of a bust up with Monk as some suggest.

 

You don't know that for sure given that he initially did take a place on the bench but I agree that his attitude in this respect has been poor. I'm not sure any of his mistakes we worse than Dawson passing the ball straight to the QPR forward under no significant pressure though or doing similar at Barnsley when he could easily have booted the ball the way he was facing into the stand. 

 

In terms of name calling I couldn't agree with you more, its petty and detracts from any genuine analytical viewpoint, same with calling Carlos coco or belittling Nuhiu for his appearance. 

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48 minutes ago, parajack said:

Like i said i have given my reasons MANY times and they are there to critique/accept as you wish.Not sure your own critique is valid TBF though i accept your views

'Language is a site of struggle,over MEANING' (VOLUSHINOV.) To me,its clear enough,but i will try to clarify:

 

(1) The club(with points deduction pending,simply HAD to keep Championship status,Monk as Manager,has achieved that.In my view(said this MANY times NO ONE is prepared to accept we could have been relegation fodder) that was all that was realistically achievable,given the Clubs troubles.(personally i never thought automatic promotion was on,and expected us to drift from play off places,,didnt expect what we got,obviously)  Thought Monk overachieved in the first 23....didnt expect it to continue,& the Fletcher injury started the rot...

 

(2) Money is how point 2,is relevent Chansiri himself reflected that Monk had built a team from next to nothing & competed at Birmingham,when he appointed him,he has also in his career brought on & identified decent players and sold them on,at a profiting my view Chansiri also would have had one eye on any potential EFL.sanctions ,knowing Monk had dealt with that too,without being relegated...

The money(or lack of it) has now been exasperated by new COVID 19 rules on late season start,& only 25% capacity gate reciepts...Accounts havnt been published as yet,and FFP rules will still apply,so any cashflow issues will effect Wednesday & their managers ability to bring in Players.Monk has a history of dealing with such.

(3) point 3 is self explanatory,you simply dont agree that dealing with a points deduction,and keeping a Club in the Championship,amounts to ;success',,I DO

 

Point( 4) if you look at Monks time at Leeds his side won and drew,way more than any other Leeds Managers side in the last decade(Bielsa aside) I have previously posted the link,and he got his Leeds side playing well,before dropping off...Most agree he over achieved.That is why i say his record is comparable.(and food for thought why he deserves a further chance at Wednesday)

 

,However i see the 'rebuild' as thus:  Season 1 & 2.Avoid relegation & maintain Championship status & overcome points deduction pending.(whilst hopefully bringing in new affordable hungry Players)

Season 3 to 5,hopefully have a pop at the playoffs,/Automatic promotion,whilst at the same time staying within EFL guidelines on FFP.(and thus avoiding further sanctions)

Why Monk? i have said why....you dont agree fair enough..

 

Your defence of Monk is admirable and you’ve made some fair and decent points but I think you’ve overlooked one important point in particular. That point being Monk was well liked and supported by the fans at both Leeds And Birmingham. He doesn’t have anywhere near that kind of faith and support here apart from maybe a few? His lack of popularity will see him lose his job here in the very near future IMO?

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1 minute ago, Jim said:

 

Your defence of Monk is admirable and you’ve made some fair and decent points but I think you’ve overlooked one important point in particular. That point being Monk was well liked and supported by the fans at both Leeds And Birmingham. He doesn’t have anywhere near that kind of faith and support here apart from maybe a few? His lack of popularity will see him lose his job here in the very near future IMO?

Big Sam wasnt liked by the Everton fans mate,but he was brought in to 'firefight' and do a holding job,keep them in the Premier League...

 

S6 fans still wailing about 'Fessi' leaving...and 'Hutch'....'Westy' not being picked (sob...)...All these nicknames like their your bessy mates instead of becoming (alleged of course) MILLIONAIRES despite winning ..OH JACK... whilst here.playing in the second tier of Football,and thats when not 'injured' and unavailable...

 

WHY cant people see Monks got to start again?...F**king sick of playing manager go round...Personally i wouldnt blame him for saying f**K it,the fans are a load of ********** & leaving us to it...

 

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10 minutes ago, Jim said:

 

Your defence of Monk is admirable and you’ve made some fair and decent points but I think you’ve overlooked one important point in particular. That point being Monk was well liked and supported by the fans at both Leeds And Birmingham. He doesn’t have anywhere near that kind of faith and support here apart from maybe a few? His lack of popularity will see him lose his job here in the very near future IMO?

I know what Monks record was at Leeds & although they dropped off,he still got them a 7th place in the Championship,and 'our lot' to third in the Championship,before falling off...He DOES have the potential

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1 hour ago, parajack said:

Like i said i have given my reasons MANY times and they are there to critique/accept as you wish.Not sure your own critique is valid TBF though i accept your views

'Language is a site of struggle,over MEANING' (VOLUSHINOV.) To me,its clear enough,but i will try to clarify:

 

(1) The club(with points deduction pending,simply HAD to keep Championship status,Monk as Manager,has achieved that.In my view(said this MANY times NO ONE is prepared to accept we could have been relegation fodder) that was all that was realistically achievable,given the Clubs troubles.(personally i never thought automatic promotion was on,and expected us to drift from play off places,,didnt expect what we got,obviously)  Thought Monk overachieved in the first 23....didnt expect it to continue,& the Fletcher injury started the rot...

 

(2) Money is how point 2,is relevent Chansiri himself reflected that Monk had built a team from next to nothing & competed at Birmingham,when he appointed him,he has also in his career brought on & identified decent players and sold them on,at a profiting my view Chansiri also would have had one eye on any potential EFL.sanctions ,knowing Monk had dealt with that too,without being relegated...

The money(or lack of it) has now been exasperated by new COVID 19 rules on late season start,& only 25% capacity gate reciepts...Accounts havnt been published as yet,and FFP rules will still apply,so any cashflow issues will effect Wednesday & their managers ability to bring in Players.Monk has a history of dealing with such.

(3) point 3 is self explanatory,you simply dont agree that dealing with a points deduction,and keeping a Club in the Championship,amounts to ;success',,I DO

 

Point( 4) if you look at Monks time at Leeds his side won and drew,way more than any other Leeds Managers side in the last decade(Bielsa aside) I have previously posted the link,and he got his Leeds side playing well,before dropping off...Most agree he over achieved.That is why i say his record is comparable.(and food for thought why he deserves a further chance at Wednesday)

 

,However i see the 'rebuild' as thus:  Season 1 & 2.Avoid relegation & maintain Championship status & overcome points deduction pending.(whilst hopefully bringing in new affordable hungry Players)

Season 3 to 5,hopefully have a pop at the playoffs,/Automatic promotion,whilst at the same time staying within EFL guidelines on FFP.(and thus avoiding further sanctions)

Why Monk? i have said why....you dont agree fair enough..

 

Four wins in twenty-three games?

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13 minutes ago, parajack said:

Big Sam wasnt liked by the Everton fans mate,but he was brought in to 'firefight' and do a holding job,keep them in the Premier League...

 

S6 fans still wailing about 'Fessi' leaving...and 'Hutch'....'Westy' not being picked (sob...)...All these nicknames like their your bessy mates instead of becoming (alleged of course) MILLIONAIRES despite winning ..OH JACK... whilst here.playing in the second tier of Football,and thats when not 'injured' and unavailable...

 

WHY cant people see Monks got to start again?...F**king sick of playing manager go round...Personally i wouldnt blame him for saying f**K it,the fans are a load of ********** & leaving us to it...

 

 

We’ve got to give a manager time. I understand and accept that. One reason Monk won’t walk out here is what I mentioned in an earlier post. He would be finished as a championship manager as his record isn’t anything to write home about apart from a 7th placed finish at Leeds and as you say taking us to 3rd at Christmas before decided to throw all his good work prior down the toilet by thinking Dawson and Pelupessy were better choices than Westwood and Hutchinson. You never know had he had stuck with them his stock may be higher now than it currently is?

 

Bottom line as even Monk keeps trotting out, it is a results business. If his results here were a business, he’d be bankrupt? I just haven’t seen anything to change my mind that he’ll turn it around here. He comes across as charmless and arrogant and I’ve never ever seen this type of managerial personality ever be successful here and I’m not likely to anytime soon?

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28 minutes ago, Athelwulf said:

 

Four wins in twenty-three games?

Cant repeat the entire thread for you,READ,rinse & repeat,,,,& heres a little food for thought for you.....Monks a little 'hit & miss' but he has found s few 'gems',,https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/sheffield-wednesday-transfers-braithwaite-monk-18626355

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday-kieran-lee-efl-18663021

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3 minutes ago, parajack said:

Cant repeat the entire thread for you,READ,rinse & repeat,,,,& heres a little food for thought for you.....Monks a little 'hit & miss' but he has found s few 'gems',,https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/sheffield-wednesday-transfers-braithwaite-monk-18626355

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday-kieran-lee-efl-18663021

Fair play, there’s some decent names on that list Just a reminder though, one of our most effective signings for many a year, Michael Hector, was brought in by none other than Jos

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15 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Fair play, there’s some decent names on that list Just a reminder though, one of our most effective signings for many a year, Michael Hector, was brought in by none other than Jos

Agree,

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47 minutes ago, Jim said:

 

We’ve got to give a manager time. I understand and accept that. One reason Monk won’t walk out here is what I mentioned in an earlier post. He would be finished as a championship manager as his record isn’t anything to write home about apart from a 7th placed finish at Leeds and as you say taking us to 3rd at Christmas before decided to throw all his good work prior down the toilet by thinking Dawson and Pelupessy were better choices than Westwood and Hutchinson. You never know had he had stuck with them his stock may be higher now than it currently is?

 

Bottom line as even Monk keeps trotting out, it is a results business. If his results here were a business, he’d be bankrupt? I just haven’t seen anything to change my mind that he’ll turn it around here. He comes across as charmless and arrogant and I’ve never ever seen this type of managerial personality ever be successful here and I’m not likely to anytime soon?

Who knows? he had obviously had enough of the alleged 'antics' of some of this squad,and personally i dont think he gave a flying **** if they liked him saying it,or not...This lot did not(collectively) as a squad,have the wherewithall to sustain a prolonged challenge.

 

Monk saw that and i respect him for calling it out...Thats wh i would give him the time he needs,that & his previous record.(PLEASE ,OWLSTALK,dont  tell me his Clubs,5 in 5 years,OR how many times he has been sacked..I KNOW!!) I dont give a flying f**k...

 

Just got a feeling IF we stick with him,we will be ok....LAUGH  if you wish,theres no science in that,,,but many on here will know what i mean...Que: Twilight Zone music...WAWAW

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3 hours ago, the third man said:

Why was his main task Championship survival, no one expected us to be relegated, although carry on as we have since Christmas and it is a serious problem for next season - So that goes against keeping him

 

FPP has been suspended for next season, and if DC does have money, that could work in our favour - not sure why that is a reason to keep Monk

 

Birmingham were given a points deduction that wouldn't relegate them - again if we do get a points deduction, our form since Christmas says we would be down by Christmas,- not a reason to keep him

 

Cant see what success he has had anywhere, and he falls out with people, he has done it here, Middlesbrough and at Birmingham he fell out with his number 2 and Beattie was happy to stay at home and be paid by Birmingham rather than work with Monk - not a reason to keep him

 

If point 5 is correct, he obviously couldn't manage them as he has never got a team promoted, or even got a team into the play offs - not a reason to keep him

 

So your points have convinced me that Monk is not the person we need 

NO one expected us to be relegated? What so it wasnt Lucas & big Daves goals that kept us up under Jos than? Bruce didnt do one?...Managers wanted didnt turn us down? We didnt have any dressing room issues or an ageing,injury prone squad?..

 

These players under multiple Managers have allegedly let us down,again & again....The team in my view didnt have the back bone to sustain a challenge over a season.SIMPLE AS...

 

We wernt a one trick pony ,with only really Fletcher doing anything?...(up front?)It was obvious to me,we would struggle if we lost Fletcher,and our defence has been nothing special for 2 or 3 seasons.(blown hot & cold,spells of being ok,than falling apart.)

 

Too many issues to list over & over,many have been referenced in this thread alone multiple times,,i cant keep repeating my debate over & over...My debate hasnt convinced you FINE...its a free Country...

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, parajack said:

Cant repeat the entire thread for you,READ,rinse & repeat,,,,& heres a little food for thought for you.....Monks a little 'hit & miss' but he has found s few 'gems',,https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/sheffield-wednesday-transfers-braithwaite-monk-18626355

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday-kieran-lee-efl-18663021

 

Who would you consider 'gems' amongst those 22 listed in that article.

 

The only ones I would rate and were successful are Roofe, Ayling and probably the best of them Hernandez. Monk didn't discover Hernandez, he knew him from playing with him at Swansea.

 

Assombalonga for £15 has overall been disappointing for Middlesbrough. Braithwaite is a strange one, I saw him play a few times for Middlesbrough and he looked rubbish. They paid £10M for him and he scored 8 goals in 36 appearances. The Boro fans I know didn't rate him, they sold him for £4.5M and he ends up at Barcelona.

Edited by Tommy Crawshaw

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4 minutes ago, Tommy Crawshaw said:

 

Who would you consider 'gems' amongst those 22 listed in that article.

 

The only ones I would rate and were successful are Roofe, Ayling and probably the best of them Hernandez. Monk didn't discover Hernandez, he knew him from playing with him at Swansea.

 

Assombalonga for £15 has overall been disappointing for Middlesbrough. Braithwaite is a strange one, I saw him play a few times for Middlesbrough and he looked rubbish. They paid £10M for him and he scored 8 goals in 36 appearances. The Boro fans I know didn't rate him, they sold him for £4.5M and he ends up at Barcelona.

If he found 1 like that.....he is worth a proper run out..to see

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12 hours ago, Tommy Crawshaw said:

 

Who would you consider 'gems' amongst those 22 listed in that article.

 

The only ones I would rate and were successful are Roofe, Ayling and probably the best of them Hernandez. Monk didn't discover Hernandez, he knew him from playing with him at Swansea.

 

Assombalonga for £15 has overall been disappointing for Middlesbrough. Braithwaite is a strange one, I saw him play a few times for Middlesbrough and he looked rubbish. They paid £10M for him and he scored 8 goals in 36 appearances. The Boro fans I know didn't rate him, they sold him for £4.5M and he ends up at Barcelona.

 

Barcelona didn't sign Braithwaite because he was a gem though, they signed him as backup because they were only eligible to make a signing from a very limited pool of available players in their circumstances. He'd had a very mediocre scoring record at Leganes, and has 1 in 11 for Barca.

 

Yet some people are so desperate to defend Monk that one of his expensive flop signings ending up at Barca in bizarre circumstances must mean that Monk is a genius who spotted a player who went on to play for Barcelona. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, alanharper said:

 

Barcelona didn't sign Braithwaite because he was a gem though, they signed him as backup because they were only eligible to make a signing from a very limited pool of available players in their circumstances. He'd had a very mediocre scoring record at Leganes, and has 1 in 11 for Barca.

 

Yet some people are so desperate to defend Monk that one of his expensive flop signings ending up at Barca in bizarre circumstances must mean that Monk is a genius who spotted a player who went on to play for Barcelona. 

 

 

 

Exactly, he was an expensive flop at Middlesbrough, they lost £6M on him.

 

As for the 22 signings Monk made in that article, you could only describe Roofe as anything like a 'gem' and Ayling as a success.

Hernandez was already an established player at Swansea.

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