Have to give a manager time..

[Ellis Rimmer]

Just now, parajack said:

There really is NO answer to such 'Blue sky' thinking....What job do you know,ANY  job where wholesale worrying about the future of the Employer,wouldn't effect the 'firms' Employees'....?  .Will the owner/stay? Or go?(been muted) Will his advisers still retain control of recruitment? will contracts be offered? Is a points deduction pending,and if i sign will i be playing my football in Div2 next year?

If i stay,,will i be faced with an impossible season next Year,& inevitable relegation?...& on & on....thats not supposed to effect your 'on pitch' performance?..REALLY?

Yeh the pressure was on and for the umptyninth time it is LITERALLY the managers job to EASE their concerns and get the best out of them!!!

 

We were in touch at XMAS

 

We signed some GOOD players in addition to bolster the squad in Wickham and Windass

 

We just got worse and worse

 

It's like Eddie Howe going today, "sorry the lads got relegated, they were worried about getting relegated so they didn't play their best the last few weeks, it's hard when you're worried about getting relegated"

 

 

[@owlstalk]

2 minutes ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

"sorry the lads got relegated, they were worried about getting relegated so they didn't play their best the last few weeks, it's hard when you're worried about getting relegated"

That actually really does happen to many teams who are relegated

[gurujuan]

6 minutes ago, parajack said:

With a few shrewd signings?? With what,buttons??...we got a few loans,thats it....Maybe with said 'signings' & a different dynamic things might have turned around....but we couldnt sign anyone could we?..IF...He is pointing blame,because IT IS allegedly warranted,justified,& there on the pitch for all to see(if you get IFOLLOW!!) than i dont consider that s Monk making excuses... Latest example(without picking on him as i dont include hi m for not trying) was Bannan's mistake,that led to a goal...WHY? Monk is entitled to say..WHY? why pick that pass? Monk says players are doing things he isnt coaching? Is that true? or is it an excuse?..

I always said we could do it with loan signings. How much do you think it will have cost us to get Wickham here? It was Monk who decided, very publicly, to leave out Westwood and Hutchinson, which, as I’ve stated many times before, was his right if he thought performances would be better without them. Those are the sort of decisions that managers always have to make, and those are the decisions they live or die by Clearly Monk got it wrong. There was no improvement, just a downward spiral that Monk wasn’t able to get any sort of a grip on. There will always be individual errors during the game, that’s part and parcel of football. It’s how you navigate those setbacks, that sets good coaches apart from ones who aren’t so good, so yes, it is just excuses

[Ellis Rimmer]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

That actually really does happen to many teams who are relegated

Yes of course it does but it doesn't excuse the manager, it's the managers job to do his best to stop that from happening, if he doesn't manage to do it then he's failed 

 

Someone like Warnock is at his best in these backs to the wall type situations for example

Edited July 26, 2020 by Ellis Rimmer

[parajack]

34 minutes ago, Ronio said:

It is important to differentiate between a good manager and a bad manager.  

 

A good manager you would want given all the time in the world with all the necessary resources available to him.  A bad manager, you would want out the club asap before he damages the club further.  

 

I've genuinely not seen one Monk supporter come out and list the positives why he should be given time and two allowed to undergo one of the biggest tasks facing Sheffield Wednesday, and that is the rebuild job.  

 

A simple question, that many refuse to answer.  

 

Why is that?  Well the truth in that is that they have no answers to give.  Zilch, zero, nada. 

 

Also can we realistically afford another season like the one we just had? I believe another catastrophic season, could very well do significant damage to the club, that we may never recover from or spend years trying to make up the ground already lost.  So if Monk is given more time, and he messes it up again like the season we have all just seen, then what?  Will Monk be given even more time to fix the problems he helped create?  How far will your support go for Monk?  It appears to me, apathy has well and truly set in.  I don't know if that is because of the years of shiite we have had to put up with, its as if, no matter how bad the result, Monk can do no wrong.  I'm just baffled by it.  The day we start to lower expectations on where this club should be heading, will be the day I truly give up on football.  

 

I said last summer when Bruce left us, that we were in a crisis and that we needed a top manager or something different to steer us in the right direction and clear from the problems we were and are being faced with. 

 

Nothing has changed on that front, except that the potential catastrophe is somewhat worse than it was last season.  

 

So I will say this again, as I said last summer.  We need a top class manager or something different to steer this great club forward instead of backwards.   

I have given multiple reasons why Monk should be given the chance,in this thread alone.(though i grow weary of repeating them)

(1) BEFORE thinking of rebuild,the first job is Championship survival,Season 2019/20(probably achieved now,only EFL can relegate us)

 

(2) Likely to be starting season 20/21 with Oct start,NO crowds,& currently only allowed 25% attendance thereafter(until further notice..MASSIVE drop in income,& likely to effect profit/loss FFP,unless rule change. Relevance? Ability to bring in new signings)

 

(3) Monk has shown with Birmingham,that he is able to motivate a squad to overcome a points deduction & avoid relegation

 

(4) Monk was the most successful Leeds manager(before Bielsa) in the last 10 Years..Monks thinking has been detailed here....https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/5-insights-garry-monks-methods-13179401

and to me,it doesnt come across as a manager without a plan.

 

(5) In previous Clubs,Monk has been adept at finding,coaching,& than selling on,at a profit(SUFCs way) Players,than finding OTHERs to do the same...(source to follow..)

 

These are some of my reasons why i think Monk should be given a chance....So disagree by all means but dont please say NO ONE has been able to give you a 'reason'

[parajack]

9 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

I always said we could do it with loan signings. How much do you think it will have cost us to get Wickham here? It was Monk who decided, very publicly, to leave out Westwood and Hutchinson, which, as I’ve stated many times before, was his right if he thought performances would be better without them. Those are the sort of decisions that managers always have to make, and those are the decisions they live or die by Clearly Monk got it wrong. There was no improvement, just a downward spiral that Monk wasn’t able to get any sort of a grip on. There will always be individual errors during the game, that’s part and parcel of football. It’s how you navigate those setbacks, that sets good coaches apart from ones who aren’t so good, so yes, it is just excuses

Mate Westwoods form was poor in my opinion when he was drooped,(he was 'dropped' as well !!) & Hutchinson was/has been struggling with injury...they were not 'silver bullets to success,MOVE ON please,IF,IF the look out had seen the iceberg,& so on...These players had many chances to take the team forward,& sadly were part of a group of Players & management that failed.

[parajack]

13 minutes ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

Yes of course it does but it doesn't excuse the manager, it's the managers job to do his best to stop that from happening, if he doesn't manage to do it then he's failed 

 

Someone like Warnock is at his best in these backs to the wall type situations for example

COLIN?.....GULP.......

[gurujuan]

1 minute ago, Dagmeister's Shadow said:

Hutch I'd agree with. Westwood was dropped because of his dire form. You can't drop a player without it being ' very public' He then got his regulation 'injury' when being asked to sit on the bench effectively ruling himself out of selection.

Re Westwood, I guess we’ll see if he starts next season, assuming his regulation injury doesn’t linger It’s not like Dawson or Wildsmith covered themselves in glory

[billyblack]

20 minutes ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

Yeh the pressure was on and for the umptyninth time it is LITERALLY the managers job to EASE their concerns and get the best out of them!!!

 

We were in touch at XMAS

 

We signed some GOOD players in addition to bolster the squad in Wickham and Windass

 

We just got worse and worse

 

It's like Eddie Howe going today, "sorry the lads got relegated, they were worried about getting relegated so they didn't play their best the last few weeks, it's hard when you're worried about getting relegated"

 

 

Wickham wasnt fit until last tuesday

[parajack]

2 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Re Westwood, I guess we’ll see if he starts next season, assuming his regulation injury doesn’t linger It’s not like Dawson or Wildsmith covered themselves in glory

I thought Wildsmith was playing ok,than JOS came in,and suddenly it was 'Cammy' (his choice obviously) I cant say myself i rated dawson,though i have nothing against him,and Westwood when available,seemed the better of the two.As others have said though,after re contracting his form was poor,and so in my view was Dawsons.

Personally i would persevere with Wildsmith as no1,with Dawson as no2. Westwood now needs selling.

[Ellis Rimmer]

Just now, billyblack said:

Wickham wasnt fit until last tuesday

13 games

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, billyblack said:

Wickham wasnt fit until last tuesday

 

That explains it all then, no wonder we only picked up 17 points from our final 23 games!

 

Beggars belief that we actually went ahead and signed him in the first place. 

[gurujuan]

13 minutes ago, parajack said:

I thought Wildsmith was playing ok,than JOS came in,and suddenly it was 'Cammy' (his choice obviously) I cant say myself i rated dawson,though i have nothing against him,and Westwood when available,seemed the better of the two.As others have said though,after re contracting his form was poor,and so in my view was Dawsons.

Personally i would persevere with Wildsmith as no1,with Dawson as no2. Westwood now needs selling.

Yes Westwood’s form was poor, and probably did warrant leaving out at the time. It’s not difficult to see though, if you leave out Westwood and Hutchinson, you’re gonna have problems defensively 

Westwood organises the defence, something that neither Wildsmith or Dawson do They might of course, with more games under their belt. That’s quite a big issue for us, as we really don’t have any other organisers or leaders on the pitch. I had high hopes for Borner, who was captain of his previous side, but I don’t know if there’s a language barrier, but he isn’t vocal at all. 
Hutchinson was a huge miss, and for me, the biggest single factor in our slump. He is only one of our midfield options who actually added a bit of steel. If Monk had decided he was done, he should have brought in a similar player in that January window. 
Going forward, OK let’s use the home grown keepers, but we then need to compensate by bringing in a vocal leader in the middle of the defence, someone who can organise us at set plays

Edited July 26, 2020 by gurujuan

[Ronio]

11 minutes ago, parajack said:

I have given multiple reasons why Monk should be given the chance,in this thread alone.(though i grow weary of repeating them)

(1) BEFORE thinking of rebuild,the first job is Championship survival,Season 2019/20(probably achieved now,only EFL can relegate us)

 

(2) Likely to be starting season 20/21 with Oct start,NO crowds,& currently only allowed 25% attendance thereafter(until further notice..MASSIVE drop in income,& likely to effect profit/loss FFP,unless rule change. Relevance? Ability to bring in new signings)

 

(3) Monk has shown with Birmingham,that he is able to motivate a squad to overcome a points deduction & avoid relegation

 

(4) Monk was the most successful Leeds manager(before Bielsa) in the last 10 Years..Monks thinking has been detailed here....https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/5-insights-garry-monks-methods-13179401

and to me,it doesnt come across as a manager without a plan.

 

(5) In previous Clubs,Monk has been adept at finding,coaching,& than selling on,at a profit(SUFCs way) Players,than finding OTHERs to do the same...(source to follow..)

 

These are some of my reasons why i think Monk should be given a chance....So disagree by all means but dont please say NO ONE has been able to give you a 'reason'

Appreciate you have given a reply. 

 

Points 1 and 2 don't specifically answer the question of why should Monk be given more time.

 

Point 3, I don't judge Monk's time at Birmingham as a success.  He was sacked and his own backroom staff decided to keep their jobs at Birmingham, suggesting to me that Monk was the problem.  It is constantly suggested on here that Monk needs his own coaching staff.  The reality is, he doesn't have any, not after what happened at Birmingham.  I'm not sure how Monk's time at Birmingham is considered a success, when his own backroom staff effectively ditched him.  

 

Point 4, Monk was one of the most successful Leeds managers?  Having done what exactly?  You say his time there was a success without mentioning what he had actually achieved that could be considered a success.  

 

Point 5, I have no idea what you have written there, doesn't read well.  

[the third man]

33 minutes ago, parajack said:

I have given multiple reasons why Monk should be given the chance,in this thread alone.(though i grow weary of repeating them)

(1) BEFORE thinking of rebuild,the first job is Championship survival,Season 2019/20(probably achieved now,only EFL can relegate us)

 

(2) Likely to be starting season 20/21 with Oct start,NO crowds,& currently only allowed 25% attendance thereafter(until further notice..MASSIVE drop in income,& likely to effect profit/loss FFP,unless rule change. Relevance? Ability to bring in new signings)

 

(3) Monk has shown with Birmingham,that he is able to motivate a squad to overcome a points deduction & avoid relegation

 

(4) Monk was the most successful Leeds manager(before Bielsa) in the last 10 Years..Monks thinking has been detailed here....https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/5-insights-garry-monks-methods-13179401

and to me,it doesnt come across as a manager without a plan.

 

(5) In previous Clubs,Monk has been adept at finding,coaching,& than selling on,at a profit(SUFCs way) Players,than finding OTHERs to do the same...(source to follow..)

 

These are some of my reasons why i think Monk should be given a chance....So disagree by all means but dont please say NO ONE has been able to give you a 'reason'

Why was his main task Championship survival, no one expected us to be relegated, although carry on as we have since Christmas and it is a serious problem for next season - So that goes against keeping him

 

FPP has been suspended for next season, and if DC does have money, that could work in our favour - not sure why that is a reason to keep Monk

 

Birmingham were given a points deduction that wouldn't relegate them - again if we do get a points deduction, our form since Christmas says we would be down by Christmas,- not a reason to keep him

 

Cant see what success he has had anywhere, and he falls out with people, he has done it here, Middlesbrough and at Birmingham he fell out with his number 2 and Beattie was happy to stay at home and be paid by Birmingham rather than work with Monk - not a reason to keep him

 

If point 5 is correct, he obviously couldn't manage them as he has never got a team promoted, or even got a team into the play offs - not a reason to keep him

 

So your points have convinced me that Monk is not the person we need 

[Jim]

There are some mitigating circumstances such as the sword of damacles hanging over the club for most of the season. That said the run since Christmas was beyond bad and despite all the disappointments and setbacks, he showed no signs at all at being able to halt the slide which he never did in all fairness.

 

He's going to be here at the start of next season, I think that much is obvious. He's not quitting because he knows he's finished as a championship manager if he does? The chairman won't sack him because he's oblivious to fan opinion. As there hasn't been fans in grounds he hasn't seen the flack that Monk is getting at first hand. Remember it took a fiery fans forum for the chairman to realise that Lukuhay had lost the fans.

 

I fear the worst next season as let's be honest Monk doesn't have that pull in football to bring in players. Any player who does their homework on him will know there is as much chance of him being frozen out of his plans as being a part of them? We're on a slippery slope and I don't see us stopping that slide while he remains in charge and a couple of bad results early doors next season and the task which looks impossible now becomes even more so?

[GLOwl]

38 minutes ago, Dagmeister's Shadow said:

No they didn't but even where they could have done better their errors weren't on the same scale as the howlers that caused Monk to rightly drop Westwood. I'm amazed at how some  magnify the younger keepers' shortcomings whilst seeking to airbrush Westwood's ricks.

I'd be very surprised if Westwood is around the scene next season though it might cost us a bit to get him off the roster. When dropped you look for a player to show the right attitude to fight for his place back. 

Spot on mate. The reason some persist is called winding up/putting their point across with false information/pig headedness/an inability to see things clearly etc.

Let's hope the sulker is gone in the next few weeks, let him be someone else's problem.

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, Dagmeister's Shadow said:

No they didn't but even where they could have done better their errors weren't on the same scale as the howlers that caused Monk to rightly drop Westwood. I'm amazed at how some  magnify the younger keepers' shortcomings whilst seeking to airbrush Westwood's ricks.

I'd be very surprised if Westwood is around the scene next season though it might cost us a bit to get him off the roster. When dropped you look for a player to show the right attitude to fight for his place back. 

 

Cameron Dawson is 25 years old and Joe Wildsmith is 24, at what age are we allowed to be analytically critical of their performances? 

Westwood was below his usual standards in some games this season but never let in more than 2 in a game. How the howlers of Wildmsith and Dawson 'weren't on the same scale' as anything Westwood did I don't know. Dawson passed the ball out to the opposition to score twice, let alone countless other errors. Wildsmith showed very poor positional sense and biscuit wrists in the last two games and conceded 17 goals in 9 games since restart.

[Ash77]

Poor record, worse than luhukay, irvine, turner etc. Poor football, poor selections, tactics, subs etc etc.

 

Maybe its not all his fault but evidence is he clearly can't make the best of what he's got, and the evidence also shows he has short stints ending in failures/sackings.

 

Started promising after promising signs under bruce, but that was a disastrous bottom of table showing since xmas, another terrible appointment by dc.

 

Doesn't seem the brightest either imo, but can't be arsed to argue about opinions to the incredibly high 30% who seem to back him!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Ash77

[Bakewell Owl]

On 25/07/2020 at 09:22, Dizzys Dad said:

 Alex Ferguson took an age to get Man Utd going. Rumoured to be one game from being sacked at one point. 

it was after we had beat them in the Rumbelows final