Formation clearly not working

[FinnishOwl]

12 hours ago, JOCOWl said:

The problem is we can't keep a clean sheet irrespective of formation. We then don't create enough chances to score sufficient to offset conceding every game. Not a good formula! 

 

I agree. The level of our current squad doesn't warrant beautiful plays resulting in goals ready for highlight reels. We should concentrate on shutting the shop and after that scraping that odd goal here and there.

[Guest wilyfox]

Börner is too slow to play on the left of a three, and Palmer is not a centre-half. It's no surprise we're shipping goals. Monk may have chosen a system to better suit our midfield options, but has caused problems at the back in doing so. 

[billyblack]

1 hour ago, WorrallOwl17 said:

our 3-5-2 is embarrassing. I love the formation, the way United play it, Wolves, England at the World Cup, Chelsea under Conte, but you have to play more than capable players in a few positions. The left and right sided centre backs need to be able to defend centrally (Basham, O'Connell, Boly, Saiss) but we're shoehorning Palmer and Moses into that role, who have never played centre back in their careers. Just play Iorfa, Lees and Borner in the back 3 if you're persisting with it. You also need wing backs who have possible played full back in their career (Baldock, Stevens, Doherty) not Murphy and Harris who are out and out wide attacking players, getting them to defend as wing backs is baffling. So Palmer and Reach could surely play them roles? With Moses coming off the bench

i agree, but Borner and Lees were injured.

 

442 we cant play either because our midfield cant cope. Essentially Bannan is the problem, he cant play in a 442 with our players we have. He can play in a 352 but we dont have proper wing backs.

 

This all stems to not having a plan and not recruiting accordingly, have a plan and manage it. We dont, so we are garbage.

[billyblack]

Just now, wilyfox said:

Börner is too slow to play on the left of a three, and Palmer is not a centre-half. It's no surprise we're shipping goals. Monk may have chosen a system to better suit our midfield options, but has caused problems at the back in doing so. 

just said the same in another post, our problem is accommodating Bannan, always has been

[Andrew6666]

9 minutes ago, Westfield Owl said:

 

The same lad that at least half the clubs in the Championship were trying to sign on loan in January.

 

Aye that one.

 

 

90% of our squad has remained unchanged since the start of the 2018/19 season.

 

Or to put it another way, if our players are so rubbish, why were we 3rd in the league at Xmas?

Overachieving with a poor squad.

[uptheowls]

12 hours ago, yeadonowl said:

The formation was fine for 77 mins until Borner and Iorfa don’t communicate and go for the same ball

If they had a decent striker we’d have been 3 down at half time

[Guest wilyfox]

Just now, billyblack said:

just said the same in another post, our problem is accommodating Bannan, always has been

 

I wouldn't agree that Bannan is the problem. I rue the loss of Fox. He'd have been better suited to the role Börner is filling. Individual mistakes are killing us defensively, when you look at the penalties given and 1v1 battles we've lost. Pure crap defending. 

 

On top of that, we're toothless up front. Then of course we have the fragile Kieran Lee who can no longer get through games, and Pelupessy who simply isn't good enough. Adam Reach's standards have dropped massively, and my guess would be a situation brewing with Tom Lees - another player whose standards have dropped.  Does not surprise me that a dropped player picks up a mysterious injury that scans can't find when recalled to do a job in a formation he has struggled with in the past. Lees was all over the shop when Luhukay switched to a three. 

[Westfield Owl]

37 minutes ago, billyblack said:

The same lad that at least half the clubs in the Championship were trying to sign on loan in January.

 

Aye that one.

 

lucky escape for them then, he wasnt fit, playing for another club wouldnt have made him fit overnight.  Perhaps if he had been fit it would be different, but he wasnt and it isnt.

 

90% of our squad has remained unchanged since the start of the 2018/19 season.

 

Or to put it another way, if our players are so rubbish, why were we 3rd in the league at Xmas?

 

Because we were lucky, we all knew that position was false, we were still playing badly then. Our squad has been stale for 4 years and our midfield is awful. The forwards which were below average at best (bar Fletcher) and now depleted and as a unit far worse.

I bet Monk cant wait for the season to end. If i was him id on holiday and not come back to this institution

 

I don’t necessarily disagree with a few of the points you make.

 

But no one can deny that our results and performances pre-Xmas compared to post-Xmas are chalk and cheese.

 

Genuine question, can you name another English club that have been 3rd at Xmas and then completely tanked and ended up battling relegation in the same season?

 

It just doesn’t happen does it?  And Monk has to take his share of the blame for that.

 

Steve Bruce would have had this squad in the top 8 IMO.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Westfield Owl

[Westfield Owl]

28 minutes ago, Andrew6666 said:

Overachieving with a poor squad.

 

A poor squad that was averaging playoff form throughout 2019 with 4 different managers.

 

Do me a favour.  You’re proper tying yourself in knots here.

[billyblack]

Just now, Westfield Owl said:

 

I don’t necessarily disagree with a few of the points you make.

 

But no one can deny that our results and performances pre-Xmas compared to post-Xmas are chalk and cheese.

 

Genuine question, can you name another English club that have been 3rd at Xmas and then completely tanked and ended up battling relegation in the same season?

 

It just doesn’t happen does it?  And Monk has to take his share of the blame for that.

 

Steve Bruce would have had this squad in the top 8 IMO.

 

Our failure to achieve this is 

Our results are rubbish yes and inconsistent.

 

I cant name another club no, i cant name any other club like ours in many ways at the moment.

 

My point with Monk is, i genuinely dont know if its his fault or not. I just feel he hasnt had a proper chance yet, im not sure that another manager would be better or worse given what they have to work with.

 

Steve Bruce has done great at Newcastle, he was doing well here and he left, but we cant compare Monk with Bruce because Bruce had his own staff, he also brought in those players at the start of the season. Monk hasnt had any of that. He had the Jan transfer window but who knows where those signings came from. Im not certain whether Bruce would have stuck around either when he actually realised how bad it was.

[OwlBiSeeinThi]

2 hours ago, McRightSide said:

That chance came from his two errors prior

He wasn't great at all, but he was effectively alone in the centre for the help that Bannan and Luongo provided.

I don't know how you can single one player out in that sh1tshow if a performance.

[McRightSide]

Just now, OwlBiSeeinThi said:

He wasn't great at all, but he was effectively alone in the centre for the help that Bannan and Luongo provided.

I don't know how you can single one player out in that sh1tshow if a performance.

To blame them is comical, when they had to attempt to cover JPs role too. 
 

So many times JP was clearly supposed to show for the short ball but was hiding and so Bannan had to do it

[billyblack]

9 minutes ago, wilyfox said:

 

I wouldn't agree that Bannan is the problem. I rue the loss of Fox. He'd have been better suited to the role Börner is filling. Individual mistakes are killing us defensively, when you look at the penalties given and 1v1 battles we've lost. Pure crap defending. 

 

On top of that, we're toothless up front. Then of course we have the fragile Kieran Lee who can no longer get through games, and Pelupessy who simply isn't good enough. Adam Reach's standards have dropped massively, and my guess would be a situation brewing with Tom Lees - another player whose standards have dropped.  Does not surprise me that a dropped player picks up a mysterious injury that scans can't find when recalled to do a job in a formation he has struggled with in the past. Lees was all over the shop when Luhukay switched to a three. 

I liked Fox, thought he was better than a lot of people made out. Took him a while though.

 

Interesting to see where he ends up. If Monk wants to play 352, i dont have an issue with that at all, we just need to recruit off season sensibly to do that. Something we have never done

[room0035]

yet again Monks substitutions  changed the game Murphy goes off injured he has Reach, Windass, Hughes all could have come on he bring on Penalty Boy.

 

Up to that point we were not great but Preston were worse. Then the tactical genius of Monk brings on the wrong player at the wrong time and we got to pot. Well done Gary another game we got nothing from except more injuries.

[billyblack]

5 minutes ago, Westfield Owl said:

 

A poor squad that was averaging playoff form throughout 2019 with 4 different managers.

 

Do me a favour.  You’re proper tying yourself in knots here.

did we have 4 managers in 2019??

[Westfield Owl]

17 minutes ago, billyblack said:

did we have 4 managers in 2019??

 

Bullen (twice), Agnew, Bruce, Monk.

[billyblack]

4 minutes ago, Westfield Owl said:

 

Bullen (twice), Agnew, Bruce, Monk.

Christ, what a state.

 

But yes, we still over achieved.

[Andrew6666]

14 minutes ago, Westfield Owl said:

 

A poor squad that was averaging playoff form throughout 2019 with 4 different managers.

 

Do me a favour.  You’re proper tying yourself in knots here.

Wrong. Only one of us has contradicted themselves from the original post - it isn't me.  

[FinnishOwl]

14 minutes ago, billyblack said:

Steve Bruce has done great at Newcastle, he was doing well here and he left, but we cant compare Monk with Bruce because Bruce had his own staff

 

This is one important point. The manager you hire as Steve Bruce is not just Steve Bruce but three people. There's a huge advantage there as the three persons work as a unit. Monk has Bullen, who's been around here forever and not much else.

[S36 OWL]

13 hours ago, adelphi1867 said:

Lets keep changing things in the hope we, by some miracle, come up with a system.

Sounds like the last 30 years in one sentence.

 

Playing three at the back when you only  have TWO centre halves isn't the brightest thing to do. It's hardly rocket science to realise you just don't do it.