Manwë Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Just now, pazowl55 said: The rules are the rules. 12 point deduction. Exactly. If the penalties were open and wide-ranging, then they are open to speculation and uncertainty and potential abuse of powers. 12.3.6 onwards at https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/section-3---the-league/ If Wigan do survive the drop with a 12 point deduction, then that's the system in place. Wigan will have been treated equally fair as to the next club. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miffed Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 5 minutes ago, Manwë said: Exactly. If the penalties were open and wide-ranging, then they are open to speculation and uncertainty and potential abuse of powers. 12.3.6 onwards at https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/section-3---the-league/ If Wigan do survive the drop with a 12 point deduction, then that's the system in place. Wigan will have been treated equally fair as to the next club. As fair as the next club who have broken the rules? It also doesnt mean the rules are fair or fit for purpose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannofan Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 3 hours ago, Therealrealist said: Make all football part-time..go back to when you had butchers bakers and candlestick makers playin for us..that can walk to ground with us or catch bus..an mek it a fiver to go and watch em That used to happen didn't it, before Jimmy Hill and the minimum wage. 40'000 people used to watch Derek Dooley smashing them in for us...then caught the same tram home with him after the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asteener1867 Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Manwë said: Exactly. If the penalties were open and wide-ranging, then they are open to speculation and uncertainty and potential abuse of powers. 12.3.6 onwards at https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/section-3---the-league/ If Wigan do survive the drop with a 12 point deduction, then that's the system in place. Wigan will have been treated equally fair as to the next club. Thats debateable....They were competeing with teams with parachute payments...they had an owner who was passed in the "fit and proper" persons act...which is also debateable...Football itself is an unlevel playing field at best. The EFL will dock them points mainly because threir owner can't finance them...We have an owner who can, but may be docked points because the EFL won't let him... wheres the sense in all this? Starts and ends with the EFL Edited July 1, 2020 by asteener1867 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royalowlisback Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 11 minutes ago, Bannofan said: That used to happen didn't it, before Jimmy Hill and the minimum wage. 40'000 people used to watch Derek Dooley smashing them in for us...then caught the same tram home with him after the game. Yes, those giant trams that they used to run, none of that social distancing back then, pile em' on, like the 8.15 to Delhi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted July 1, 2020 Author Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 minute ago, royalowlisback said: Yes, those giant trams that they used to run, none of that social distancing back then, pile em' on, like the 8.15 to Delhi. On a serious note has anyone watched any videos of ordinary life before lockdown? Just plain every day stuff When you look back on it, it looks and feels like from another time! Queuing closely together, pushing and shoving each other in markets to get to stalls, packing together in really busy pubs coughing and sneezing over each other etc It was only a few months ago but already it looks amazing Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwë Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, asteener1867 said: Thats debateable....They were competeing with teams with parachute payments...they had an owner who was passed in the "fit and proper" persons act...which is also debateable...Football itself is an unlevel playing field at best. The EFL will dock them points mainly because threir owner can't finance them...We have an owner who can, but may be docked points because the EFL won't let him... wheres the sense in all this? Starts and ends with the EFL Largely agree with you about the sense of it all, but that's because of the gulf between EFL and EPL. EFL jurisdiction doesn't apply to the EPL, so a club with Parachute Payments from the EPL isn't subject to different rules regarding this. It's unfair in comparison to others, but it's their income from a legitimate source and within the rules, just as other clubs have better income streams from club shops, advertising, sponsorship etc. If the EFL created a rule that clubs entering the EFL from the EPL cannot spend/account money they received from the EPL then it's game on, but then you may genuinely send clubs to the abyss who have been relegated from the EPL and can no longer support the wages of the players despite having £100m sat in the bank. Wednesday struggled without parachute payments and it caused us 20 years and counting of financial struggle. You could allow for no rules on financial sustainability at all, survival of the fittest/richest, but I don't think that's going to aid things. The £39m in three years should realistically be comfortable for anyone who wishes to invest in football. The fact it's not enough says how unsustainable it all is. One man holds our future. The only way for sense and reason to enter this is by the EFL and EPL being one again, or the EFL to stop entry from the EPL. It'll never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taximark Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 3 hours ago, gingerknob1 said: Bristol city next in Why ? 2 hours ago, @owlstalk said: How much responsibility should the previous owner have for selling it onto these people? None the EFL do all the checks its down to them however if the new owners have just tripped up and banged their heads on the pavement and can't even remember buying Wigan there will not put any money in then the EFL can only go on what they looked like on paper before the takeover. Small clubs in the north west are really struggling, Bury, Bolton, now Wigan. Just 7 years ago Wigan won the F.A Cup too. #Footballisbroken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royalowlisback Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 5 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: On a serious note has anyone watched any videos of ordinary life before lockdown? Just plain every day stuff When you look back on it, it looks and feels like from another time! Queuing closely together, pushing and shoving each other in markets to get to stalls, packing together in really busy pubs coughing and sneezing over each other etc It was only a few months ago but already it looks amazing Sounds like you were watching the Liverpool fans 'celebrating' last week mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asteener1867 Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Manwë said: Largely agree with you about the sense of it all, but that's because of the gulf between EFL and EPL. EFL jurisdiction doesn't apply to the EPL, so a club with Parachute Payments from the EPL isn't subject to different rules regarding this. It's unfair in comparison to others, but it's their income from a legitimate source and within the rules, just as other clubs have better income streams from club shops, advertising, sponsorship etc. If the EFL created a rule that clubs entering the EFL from the EPL cannot spend/account money they received from the EPL then it's game on, but then you may genuinely send clubs to the abyss who have been relegated from the EPL and can no longer support the wages of the players despite having £100m sat in the bank. Wednesday struggled without parachute payments and it caused us 20 years and counting of financial struggle. You could allow for no rules on financial sustainability at all, survival of the fittest/richest, but I don't think that's going to aid things. The £39m in three years should realistically be comfortable for anyone who wishes to invest in football. The fact it's not enough says how unsustainable it all is. One man holds our future. The only way for sense and reason to enter this is by the EFL and EPL being one again, or the EFL to stop entry from the EPL. It'll never happen. true...As long as the EPL reward failure.....Its a mess, but as that failure gets rewarded more and more, the chances of clubs that have been in the EFL for any length of time are competing on an unlevel playing field...Thats whats happened to Wigan...as I said...its unfair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taximark Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 If Wigan still keep hold of the players till the end on the season I can see them staying up even with a 12 point deduction. Massive test for Paul Cook and will probably outweigh their cup final victory against Man City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighworthOwl Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 They added the caveat of removing points next season if relegated because Leeds entered administration at half time during the last game of the season when heading down. They where deducted the 12 points but by then it didn't matter. I think Boston United did the same thing but got a hefty deduction the season after anyway but Leeds started the new season without punishment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miffed Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 And look where Leeds are... and look where Palace are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradowl Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 4 hours ago, @owlstalk said: Rugby town isnt it? Yes it is similar to Hull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Archers Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 So if on the last day of the season, a team that will finish short of the play off's but more than 12 points above the bottom 3. Can go into administration clear the debts and stay in the same division? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brissy-owl Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 hour ago, S36 OWL said: Football is rotten to the core, destroyed by money and greed at the top which has filtered down and infested the championship. When a team prioritises finishing forth in the premier league over winning a cup you know the game is fooked. Zero passion for the game anymore, it's a joke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinaOwl Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Five Archers said: So if on the last day of the season, a team that will finish short of the play off's but more than 12 points above the bottom 3. Can go into administration clear the debts and stay in the same division? Not sure that going into admin is that easy. Creditors usually have a say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casbahowl Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 39 minutes ago, TaxiMark said: If Wigan still keep hold of the players till the end on the season I can see them staying up even with a 12 point deduction. Massive test for Paul Cook and will probably outweigh their cup final victory against Man City. If the new owners have been brought in specifically to asset strip the last thing they’ll want is the team staying up! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taximark Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Just now, casbahowl said: If the new owners have been brought in specifically to asset strip the last thing they’ll want is the team staying up! True but we dont really know that, the only thing that has been mentioned is no money has appeared from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BARMYARMY2010 Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 (edited) 53 minutes ago, HighworthOwl said: They added the caveat of removing points next season if relegated because Leeds entered administration at half time during the last game of the season when heading down. They where deducted the 12 points but by then it didn't matter. I think Boston United did the same thing but got a hefty deduction the season after anyway but Leeds started the new season without punishment. 2007 ? Leeds started their league one season on minus 15 points. Edited July 1, 2020 by BARMYARMY2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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