Reach and Lees

[bobness]

6 minutes ago, Sergeant Tibbs said:

Let’s keep him in the reserves until his value evaporates.

 

Exactly what a successful businessman would do

[Sergeant Tibbs]

1 hour ago, bobness said:

 

Exactly what a successful businessman would do

...shakes his head...

turns off his phone...

[WhiteOwl91]

10 hours ago, Sgt Wednesday said:

 

Reach started the season quite well too, you know when we were 3rd. What happened when we started sinking down the league, that's right he disappeared. The guys got no fight in him.

 

 

Monk's generally done ok where's he's managed and sometimes against the odds, he's played at the highest level and managed there, what makes you think you know better?

 

 

Going around players can mean something, especially if you are playing on the counter, beating a player in your own half and getting us on the attack his a positive you know, its not all about who plays the final ball.

 

 

I openly said that he looked to be fatigued towards Christmas and give you a reason why i thought it. I also said that our entire attacking approach failed when Fletcher was out of the side.

 

What more do you want?

 

I would like to see Reach score a 40 yarder very game, what's your point?

 

Previously when we had 15+ injuries, Reach carried our side through that period. I’d hardly class that as having no fight in him. 
 

My question of him has always been can he be a very good player in a very good side, rather than a very good player in a poor one. 

Not that we will find the answer to the first bit now...

[room0035]

We have 7 games in 21 days, we have played the same 11 players for the last 2, Borner may be out depending on his dead leg, Luongo has not played for big periods of the season and has not play in 4 consecutive games all season, Lee is another injury concern though he has done very well since returning to the team.

 

I would be very surprised if we keep the same team for the next 7 games but equally we need to not make 5 or 6 changes, game to game because you lose that cohesions with the team.

 

I original point with Lees and Reach that seem to have been forgotten in true Owlstalk fashion, Lees is a centre back a centre back, when Borner went off injured and he was replace with a left back, not a centre back in Lees who was on the bench, so is he injured or out of favour.

 

We then took Rhodes off and put on DaCruz who then moved out to the wing and presumably if Da Cruz was brought on to switch from a 3-5-2 is give us more control in midfield the obvious choice seemed to be Reach, who offers more going forward and defending than Da Cruz and unlike Da Cruz can hold up play. Everytime I see Da Cruz he reminds me a bit like a gazelle all legs runs a lot but not much end product, yes he has a shot at the end of the game, but he should have gone to the corner, what happened if that ball was saved and went forward and we conceded a goal from that. Reach would have slowed the game down gone to the corner. I will be very surprised if Reach is not used a lot between now and the end of the season.

 

 

 

[oldishowl]

5 hours ago, Holmowl said:

I disagree. 
 

I think Reach would relish and excel in the wing-back roll. He can run all day, and play either side, though I wish we would play him on the left where he can put over those delicious early curlers towards Wickham and Rhodes or Nuhiu.

 

I think Lees has had a poor season, but not as poor as many suggest. I would have no concern to see a back three of Iorfa-Lees-Borner. The central CB in a 3 doesn’t  need the same distribution ability as the two wider CBs.

Pretty sure Reach will get his chance soon.

Our midfield 5 have covered an awful lot of ground in the last two games, difficult to keep that up with the frequency of games.

Just hope he shows the desire so his quality comes through.

The work rate from the 5 that have played the last two games in midfield has been unbelievable.
 

With Lees it’s not so much ability on the ball. You can limit what you try and do. Iorfa frightens me every time he gets hold of it!

It’s mobility and confidence.

 

[Jonestown83]

8 hours ago, Holmowl said:

I disagree. 
 

I think Reach would relish and excel in the wing-back roll. He can run all day, and play either side, though I wish we would play him on the left where he can put over those delicious early curlers towards Wickham and Rhodes or Nuhiu.

 

I think Lees has had a poor season, but not as poor as many suggest. I would have no concern to see a back three of Iorfa-Lees-Borner. The central CB in a 3 doesn’t  need the same distribution ability as the two wider CBs.

the whole point in the central player in a back three is to be the ball playing one of the three he should always be the spare man coming over the other two to win the ball when needed and stepping into the midfield with the ball to distribute taking both the two strikers out of the game and drawing a midfielder to him to free players up further up the pitch so you need a player the exact opposite of Tom lees if he plays anywhere it would be on the right of a 3 and it shows the lack of faith in him that Palmer who’s never played at centre half to my knowledge was picked ahead of him 

 

[Pastor Kidneys]

On 28/06/2020 at 15:31, Owls2k said:

 

It wasn't a 'challenge', the bloke just fell over, never a pen.

 

Nothing like a pen but must admit Odubajo gives me the jitters every time he tackles near our penalty area ... He's got form!

 

If we're gunna play him as wing back tell him to steer clear of the box 

[oldishowl]

22 minutes ago, erowl said:

 

Nothing like a pen but must admit Odubajo gives me the jitters every time he tackles near our penalty area ... He's got form!

 

If we're gunna play him as wing back tell him to steer clear of the box 

Minor point but he needs to stop putting his arms up after incidents like that.

Players normally do that when they have done something and are trying to con the ref

[Holmowl]

1 hour ago, Jonestown83 said:

the whole point in the central player in a back three is to be the ball playing one of the three he should always be the spare man coming over the other two to win the ball when needed and stepping into the midfield with the ball to distribute taking both the two strikers out of the game and drawing a midfielder to him to free players up further up the pitch so you need a player the exact opposite of Tom lees if he plays anywhere it would be on the right of a 3 and it shows the lack of faith in him that Palmer who’s never played at centre half to my knowledge was picked ahead of him 

 

I don’t agree. 
 

Ideally all 3 CMs need to be confident and competent on the ball, like Hector was. He loved receiving it and invariably started our next attack.

 

But, the main task of the central of the three is to defend; he is the last line of defence, covering his two mates. Lees is a very fine defender, though has had some poor games this year.  
 

Central, with the ball at his feet, Lee’s has at least four options: defender to his left or right, keeper, Bannan. When he is the right-sided CB it’s too easy for the opponents to reduce those options down.

[Jonestown83]

12 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

I don’t agree. 
 

Ideally all 3 CMs need to be confident and competent on the ball, like Hector was. He loved receiving it and invariably started our next attack.

 

But, the main task of the central of the three is to defend; he is the last line of defence, covering his two mates. Lees is a very fine defender, though has had some poor games this year.  
 

Central, with the ball at his feet, Lee’s has at least four options: defender to his left or right, keeper, Bannan. When he is the right-sided CB it’s too easy for the opponents to reduce those options down.

ideally all 3 need to be confident on the ball hence why Lees is sat on the bench 

if you watched iorfa last weekend 3/4 time’s he stepped into the gap  Between the two forwards drawing a player and having an easy pass to any one of the three midfielders who where then stood in an acre of space created by the midfielder being drawn to close him down 

The main task defensively of the centre of the three is to read the game and fill in the gaps or be quick enough to get there if they arise quickly and then be able to set something up moving forward that’s why players like beckenbaur sammer and gullit played there based on your logic they should’ve played right centre back completely nullifying the point in then being there more recently Steve Bruce when at hull played huddlestone there on and off the year they where promoted and we even tried it with 0 success with David Jones
lees has become a square peg in a round hole if you want to play this system ok as a stopper but if you want anything more which is needed for this system to work it’s just not his skill set 

[pazowl55]

18 minutes ago, Jonestown83 said:

ideally all 3 need to be confident on the ball hence why Lees is sat on the bench 

if you watched iorfa last weekend 3/4 time’s he stepped into the gap  Between the two forwards drawing a player and having an easy pass to any one of the three midfielders who where then stood in an acre of space created by the midfielder being drawn to close him down 

The main task defensively of the centre of the three is to read the game and fill in the gaps or be quick enough to get there if they arise quickly and then be able to set something up moving forward that’s why players like beckenbaur sammer and gullit played there based on your logic they should’ve played right centre back completely nullifying the point in then being there more recently Steve Bruce when at hull played huddlestone there on and off the year they where promoted and we even tried it with 0 success with David Jones
lees has become a square peg in a round hole if you want to play this system ok as a stopper but if you want anything more which is needed for this system to work it’s just not his skill set 

I still think if Borner is injured tomorrow then he will play the centre of the three with Palmer on the left and Iorfa on the right. Not sure he trusts Lees one on one with a left winger the whole game.

 

Also when Iorfa doesn't play Lees will take his place in the centre surely.

[oldishowl]

The thing is we are not playing in the World Cup here it’s the championship. The first thing any of the 3 have to do is win tackles and headers . 
We have seen in the last two games that the centre one has more headers to win. Iorfa never headed the ball so much.

 

Lees has to play centre if needed .

He is restricted on the ball but it is the only place he can play in a 3.

 

The biggest worry with it is that you are losing Iorfa’s pace in the middle where he is so quick he covers right across the back. Be harder to do that from the right hand side

[Jonestown83]

4 minutes ago, pazowl55 said:

I still think if Borner is injured tomorrow then he will play the centre of the three with Palmer on the left and Iorfa on the right. Not sure he trusts Lees one on one with a left winger the whole game.

 

Also when Iorfa doesn't play Lees will take his place in the centre surely.

I think iorfa will stay central obviously lees will have to play somewhere at some point due to the numbers

 

 in my view everyone fit he doesn’t get on the pitch if we’re going to stick with the formation sadly I think it’s a position that would’ve suited Hutchinson maybe van aken next year as it’s less of a physical one on one role which is where he struggled

 

it’ll show what monk thinks of lees if he goes with something like Palmer iorfa and odubajo which I wouldn’t put past him  

 

playing lees in the centre sadly takes away most of the bonuses from having the extra defender when in possession 

[Jonestown83]

3 minutes ago, oldishowl said:

The thing is we are not playing in the World Cup here it’s the championship. The first thing any of the 3 have to do is win tackles and headers . 
We have seen in the last two games that the centre one has more headers to win. Iorfa never headed the ball so much.

 

Lees has to play centre if needed .

He is restricted on the ball but it is the only place he can play in a 3.

 

The biggest worry with it is that you are losing Iorfa’s pace in the middle where he is so quick he covers right across the back. Be harder to do that from the right hand side

that’s my point with iorfa the centre of the 3 either has to be a great reader of the game or like lightning neither of which are lees qualities 

 

the central one doesn’t have more headers to win but because he’s free he has a 2-3 metre run up to come and win the ball if he chooses to allowing him to clear the ball much further and have a much higher chance to win the ball in the first place again from sunday I can remember at least twice where borner actually moved out of the way quite drastically for him to come and clear because of the run he had onto the ball 

 

just to be clear I don’t dislike lees I just think him playing centrally in a three would highlight most of his inabilities and you then fall into moving the team round not for the benefit of the team but just to get him on the pitch 

[pazowl55]

3 minutes ago, Jonestown83 said:

I think iorfa will stay central obviously lees will have to play somewhere at some point due to the numbers

 

 in my view everyone fit he doesn’t get on the pitch if we’re going to stick with the formation sadly I think it’s a position that would’ve suited Hutchinson maybe van aken next year as it’s less of a physical one on one role which is where he struggled

 

it’ll show what monk thinks of lees if he goes with something like Palmer iorfa and odubajo which I wouldn’t put past him  

 

playing lees in the centre sadly takes away most of the bonuses from having the extra defender when in possession 

If Borner is unfit I will be shocked if Lees isnt in that back three. I think as he is playing wingers as wing backs he wants the wings covered with players who are comfortable at facing up attackers on the flanks. Been interesting to see had Fox signed a new deal if he would have been in instead of Borner. I dont think he will hesitate personally putting Lees in the centre if he has to. But the fact the Iorfa has the pace to cover both sides may mean we see Lees on the right. 

Odubajo at centre back dont bare thinking about.

[asteener1867]

Fox is gong..Its common sense to me to keep Reach...interacting with Harris or Murphy down the flank...Could be the new Worthington /King..thing...neither of them had pace, but had a great understanding of swapping places up and down the left

[Jonestown83]

38 minutes ago, pazowl55 said:

If Borner is unfit I will be shocked if Lees isnt in that back three. I think as he is playing wingers as wing backs he wants the wings covered with players who are comfortable at facing up attackers on the flanks. Been interesting to see had Fox signed a new deal if he would have been in instead of Borner. I dont think he will hesitate personally putting Lees in the centre if he has to. But the fact the Iorfa has the pace to cover both sides may mean we see Lees on the right. 

Odubajo at centre back dont bare thinking about.

I think the fact Palmer started in front of him the last two games really doesn’t look good for him going forward unless he is carrying a knock I wouldn’t be averse to seeing urgohide given a go at right cb as he is actually a cb 

 

I think if borner is out it will be lees on the right but more through lack of options then competency in the system 

[Bigblueowl]

What are they worth

Reach 3 million? 

Lees 2 million? 

[Lord Snooty]

We've got a lot of games in a short period of time. I'm sure that there will be some involvement. Certainly for Reach at any rate. 

He can slot in LWB if needed- preferably if we're on the front foot.

And I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't get some minutes on the left of the central three. Lee, Luongo and Bannan have got through some real leg work in the previous too games. 

[Jonestown83]

On 30/06/2020 at 16:50, pazowl55 said:

If Borner is unfit I will be shocked if Lees isnt in that back three. I think as he is playing wingers as wing backs he wants the wings covered with players who are comfortable at facing up attackers on the flanks. Been interesting to see had Fox signed a new deal if he would have been in instead of Borner. I dont think he will hesitate personally putting Lees in the centre if he has to. But the fact the Iorfa has the pace to cover both sides may mean we see Lees on the right. 

Odubajo at centre back dont bare thinking about.

Hate to say I called it but it looks like odubajo at centre half tonight