Guest Grandad Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 10 hours ago, kirksandallowl said: But he would be chased by the administrator for the £60m he owes for the ground (less any payments he may or may not have made in this regard) That depends He could potentially demonstrate that the funds he's put into the club are payments towards the purchase of the ground Who knows how this has been structured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plonk Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 35 minutes ago, cs462772 said: Seem to remember we never got paid for Lee Chapman back in the day That was one of the dodgiest transfers of all time. Made the George Hirst transfer services fair 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ever the pessimist Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 9 hours ago, MBMitchell said: I'm led to believe that each family member owns a stand and we need 4 separate safety certificates Not itk just what I've heard Not quite: it’s each seat belongs to a tuna fish that the Chansiri family has orphaned. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 30 minutes ago, Grandad said: That depends He could potentially demonstrate that the funds he's put into the club are payments towards the purchase of the ground Who knows how this has been structured I am just going from personal experience here of a client where we were asked to justify a similar offset transaction that had happened in fact several years before the administration event. In the event of administration there will be a look back to see where any director that is a creditor to the company has appeared to favour himself over others. So even though DC is owed more than any one else by the company if he was to pay himself back say 80% and this leaves 0% for all the other creditors it would be seriiously questioned. Got to be remembered the debt for the stadium sale is Sheffield 5 Limited, not DC personally. You can't say just because he owns that company it does not count. I am not an insolvency expert but this is just based on real life examples of cases where similar scenarios existed albeit at 1% of the figures here and the pre discussions with an insolvency expert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essix Blue Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 12 hours ago, Triple O said: Sorry if this has already been posted from Alex Miller on Twitter 3h Spoke to the EFL earlier: still no update. Told any decision could in theory arrive over the weekend - it's not a case that they shut up shop until Monday - but they haven't yet been given an indication of time frame. Still all in the hands of the independent commission. #SWFC Still don’t believe that. 5 weeks to decide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickyTrev Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 Today at 3pm on Radio Sheffield. This is the guy that posted the in depth legal analysis of our defence the other day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grandad Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 1 hour ago, mkowl said: I am just going from personal experience here of a client where we were asked to justify a similar offset transaction that had happened in fact several years before the administration event. In the event of administration there will be a look back to see where any director that is a creditor to the company has appeared to favour himself over others. So even though DC is owed more than any one else by the company if he was to pay himself back say 80% and this leaves 0% for all the other creditors it would be seriiously questioned. Got to be remembered the debt for the stadium sale is Sheffield 5 Limited, not DC personally. You can't say just because he owns that company it does not count. I am not an insolvency expert but this is just based on real life examples of cases where similar scenarios existed albeit at 1% of the figures here and the pre discussions with an insolvency expert I'm talking about the personal cash injections he's making on a regular basis If they can be demonstrated as payments against the purchase it would make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 6 minutes ago, Grandad said: I'm talking about the personal cash injections he's making on a regular basis If they can be demonstrated as payments against the purchase it would make sense I am sure this is what he is doing in a more roundabout way. So personal money goes into Sheffield 5, that then repays the instalment on the stadium debt to SWFC. Either way his personal shareholder loan in SWFC is not increasing. What would be more tricky is novating the entire residual debt for the stadium against his personal shareholder loan and then putting the company into admin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Lestrade Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 21 minutes ago, TrickyTrev said: Today at 3pm on Radio Sheffield. This is the guy that posted the in depth legal analysis of our defence the other day. Remind me about 14:55 cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grandad Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 6 minutes ago, mkowl said: I am sure this is what he is doing in a more roundabout way. So personal money goes into Sheffield 5, that then repays the instalment on the stadium debt to SWFC. Either way his personal shareholder loan in SWFC is not increasing. What would be more tricky is novating the entire residual debt for the stadium against his personal shareholder loan and then putting the company into admin I still don't think there's a snowballs chance in hell of that happening But it is feasible, especially if he can do so while remaining owner of the stadium and restructuring the debt to mean he has to pay no more for Hillsborough Indemnifies him a little It's certainly what I'd be doing in his position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelowl Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 regardless of whether we get punished for this ground manoeuvre is there anyone thinks that it's ever a good idea ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, steelowl said: regardless of whether we get punished for this ground manoeuvre is there anyone thinks that it's ever a good idea ? I view it as a form of “tax” evasion. Normally I’d be very much against it. However, given the “tax” has not been reviewed alongside rising costs since 2014 and that the Premier clubs coming back down are like the Starbucks and Amazons of this world then fuckem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelowl Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, sonofbert2 said: I view it as a form of “tax” evasion. Normally I’d be very much against it. However, given the “tax” has not been reviewed alongside rising costs since 2014 and that the Premier clubs coming back down are like the Starbucks and Amazons of this world then fuckem! yes you have a point so it needs changing before separating clubs from their grounds leads to nightmare scenarios like Coventry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 36 minutes ago, Grandad said: I still don't think there's a snowballs chance in hell of that happening But it is feasible, especially if he can do so while remaining owner of the stadium and restructuring the debt to mean he has to pay no more for Hillsborough Indemnifies him a little It's certainly what I'd be doing in his position The point is if you did that and subsequently the Club went in to admin it would be a transaction that would be heavily reviewed. Admin is often seemed to be an easy option but its not always the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grandad Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, mkowl said: The point is if you did that and subsequently the Club went in to admin it would be a transaction that would be heavily reviewed. Admin is often seemed to be an easy option but its not always the case Completely agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 14 minutes ago, sonofbert2 said: I view it as a form of “tax” evasion. Normally I’d be very much against it. However, given the “tax” has not been reviewed alongside rising costs since 2014 and that the Premier clubs coming back down are like the Starbucks and Amazons of this world then fuckem! I am not sure where the tax evasion is - groups of companies often re-organise to keep property assets ring-fenced in one entity. And given most football clubs run at massive losses then there isn't much avoiding of corporate taxes going on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 8 minutes ago, mkowl said: I am not sure where the tax evasion is - groups of companies often re-organise to keep property assets ring-fenced in one entity. And given most football clubs run at massive losses then there isn't much avoiding of corporate taxes going on I’m relating FFP rules to tax rules if that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 Even Legohead thinks we’ve been hard done to...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 1 hour ago, sonofbert2 said: I’m relating FFP rules to tax rules if that makes sense. Yes I get where you are coming from, if there is room for interpretation then there will be interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Lestrade Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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