kobayashi Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 22 minutes ago, Heeleyowl said: Wishful thinking but .... Easy way out for the EFL if we are found guilty by the panel - dock us however many points to keep us up by goal difference. I know there are statutory guidelines on punishment but I’m sure there’s enough ambiguity and confusion in our specific circumstances (hence the panel in the first place) to allow some flexibility. They will have then fulfilled their responsibilities through due process. No complaints from us, no avenue for litigation from the relegated clubs! Is it too hard to understand that the EFL neither reach the judgement nor set the punishment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sonofbert2 Posted July 22, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, Nut said: Their argument would be that we got our points by cheating - that if we hadn't overspent we would have a weaker team and wouldn't have gained as many points as we have. Is it actually possible to have a weaker team than this set of bigfannies? 1 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbupperthongowl Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 13 minutes ago, Nut said: Their argument would be that we got our points by cheating - that if we hadn't overspent we would have a weaker team and wouldn't have gained as many points as we have. They clearly haven't watched us this year then.... 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorian gray Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 34 minutes ago, HarrowbyOwl said: Decisions of Disciplinary Commissions can be appealed. Appeals are heard by a League Arbitration Panel, Their decisions can’t be appealed but any decision taken by whatever commission or panel surely can be challenged in a british court of law for financial damages stemming from their decision? hence the current delay in decision announcement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarrowbyOwl Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, dorian gray said: but any decision taken by whatever commission or panel surely can be challenged in a british court of law for financial damages stemming from their decision? hence the current delay in decision announcement? Having opted to go to arbitration as opposed to litigation there is very little scope to revert to the courts subsequently. Edited July 22, 2020 by HarrowbyOwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hookowl Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, dorian gray said: but any decision taken by whatever commission or panel surely can be challenged in a british court of law for financial damages stemming from their decision? hence the current delay in decision announcement? It would be hard to challenge in a court of law for financial damages if the independent panel satisfy certain criteria, which I am sure they will be aware of when making a decision. eg. Did the panel have a genuine belief that the party was guilty/not guilty of the misconduct in question? Did they have reasonable grounds to sustain that belief? Had reasonable investigations been carried out? Was the sanction a fair sanction? Edited July 22, 2020 by Hookowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essix Blue Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 21 minutes ago, dorian gray said: but any decision taken by whatever commission or panel surely can be challenged in a british court of law for financial damages stemming from their decision? hence the current delay in decision announcement? I guess all clubs agree to follow the EFL rules / code. It probably says in there that the decision of the appeal panel is final, thus negating any chance of further law suits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarrowbyOwl Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, Hookowl said: It would be hard to challenge in a court of law for financial damages if the independent panel satisfy certain criteria, which I am sure they will be aware of when making a decision. eg. Did the panel have a genuine belief that the party was guilty/not guilty of the misconduct in question? Did they have reasonable grounds to sustain that belief? Had reasonable investigations been carried out? Was the sanction a fair sanction? The thing is that although IDCs and LAPs are Part of the EFL rules they are not Mickey Mouse affairs. They are arbitral proceedings, i.e. conducted under the terms of the Arbitration Act 1996. So decisions carry a lot of legal weight. Apart from being longer, potentially much more expensive, and more rigid in terms of rules of evidence, procedure etc., going through the court system is unlikely to offer any greater chance of success. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalthamOwl Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 54 minutes ago, Nut said: Their argument would be that we got our points by cheating - that if we hadn't overspent we would have a weaker team and wouldn't have gained as many points as we have. bloody hell it would be pretty hard to get less points than we have by Christmas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwë Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 As expected, Wigan will be deducted 12 points tonight and the league table will reflect it (Source: https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/football/efl-wigan-points-deduction-championship-18640821) So in a scenario where after the deduction they are in the bottom three, they are the relegated club. If the appeal moves in to next season and the Championship season starts, then there'll be little to be done for the 20/21 season. Again, I don't think Wigan stand a chance on the appeal, but putting it out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latemodelchild Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 With Wigan, the people who put them into Admin would be the people arguing they shouldn't be punished won't they? If the owners want to take a 12 point hit this season there's nowt anyone can do is there? They've gone into Admin and the punishment is minus 12 points. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 1 hour ago, kobayashi said: Is it too hard to understand that the EFL neither reach the judgement nor set the punishment? Who appoints this IDP ? Who owns the process that the IDP are a part of ? Bewilders me that people wanna defend the EFL and exonerate them from any accountability to this delay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwë Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, Royal_D said: Who appoints this IDP ? Who owns the process that the IDP are a part of ? Bewilders me that people wanna defend the EFL and exonerate them from any accountability to this delay 90.3 A Disciplinary Commission shall consist of: 90.3.1 a chairperson who shall be either: (a) a qualified solicitor or barrister; or (b) a ‘member’ or ‘fellow’ of the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators, in either case with at least 5 years post-qualification experience who shall be appointed independently by the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators (or such other body as the Board may from time to time determine); and 90.3.2 two suitably qualified side members one of whom shall be selected by the Claimant and the other (subject to Regulation 90.4), by the Respondent, Source: https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/section-8---offences-inquiries-commissions-disputes-and-appeals/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattitheowl Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, Royal_D said: Who appoints this IDP ? Who owns the process that the IDP are a part of ? Bewilders me that people wanna defend the EFL and exonerate them from any accountability to this delay Bewilders me that people don't know what the "I" in "IDP" stands for... Just not bothered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hookowl Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, Royal_D said: Who appoints this IDP ? Who owns the process that the IDP are a part of ? Bewilders me that people wanna defend the EFL and exonerate them from any accountability to this delay The EFL are partially accountable for the delay in how long it took to get to the IDP stage, although I guess the pandemic had some part to play in this. The EFL aren't accountable for how long the IDP take to reach a decision though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnsie Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, Manwë said: 90.3 A Disciplinary Commission shall consist of: 90.3.1 a chairperson who shall be either: (a) a qualified solicitor or barrister; or (b) a ‘member’ or ‘fellow’ of the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators, in either case with at least 5 years post-qualification experience who shall be appointed independently by the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators (or such other body as the Board may from time to time determine); and 90.3.2 two suitably qualified side members one of whom shall be selected by the Claimant and the other (subject to Regulation 90.4), by the Respondent, Source: https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/section-8---offences-inquiries-commissions-disputes-and-appeals/ I bet they are all Liverpool fans or Blades or sommat. I tell thee la la la la laaaarrra lala 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royalowlisback Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Just now, mattitheowl said: Bewilders me that people don't know what the "I" in "IDP" stands for... Irritable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Manwë said: 90.3 A Disciplinary Commission shall consist of: 90.3.1 a chairperson who shall be either: (a) a qualified solicitor or barrister; or (b) a ‘member’ or ‘fellow’ of the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators, in either case with at least 5 years post-qualification experience who shall be appointed independently by the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators (or such other body as the Board may from time to time determine); and 90.3.2 two suitably qualified side members one of whom shall be selected by the Claimant and the other (subject to Regulation 90.4), by the Respondent, Source: https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/section-8---offences-inquiries-commissions-disputes-and-appeals/ Fair enough there appointed independently, Just find it absolutely unbelievable that an organisation that are supposed to be in place to protect the integrity of the sport and deal with these kinds of issues can’t be held accountable whatsoever for this delay Absolute sham and they need to change the way they work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 The Wigan appeal is going to run into August as there not even hearing it until 31st July , meaning a club may get relegated mid August pending on Wigan’s appeal ! Brilliant that Suppose non of that is down to the EFL either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Maple Staple Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 My thoughts thrown into the mix of what possibly could happen: Points deduction, but only enough to puts us one place above the relegation zone due to prize money received for finishing position. Macclesfield looks like its a precedence. Ensures only win the minimum payment for staying up. Had to wait to announce it so correct deduction can be applied. Lots of information in the media about right to appeal and that if appeal drags on, may not even be next season any punishment can be applied. This is could be for relegated teams in that if they complain and any punishment is not done all in one go, still wont affect them going down. My opinion/prediction: Points deduction and a fine. Wednesday happy because we stay up. EFL happy as applied punishment. Fine covers prize money, so not made anything from season. Then, all dealt with, close loop hole, everything starts afresh in a few weeks time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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