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THE EFL HEARING THREAD


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23 minutes ago, Captain Scarlett said:

We will start off in the Championship next season on -12 points.

 

That is my prediction.

If that's the case, what would be the point starting the season?

 

Hiding to nothing. Infact it would just be a relegation party all season. 

Edited by Maddogbob
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Guest Mcguigan
6 hours ago, pazowl55 said:

I have believed from day one that there is no way that a club would ever be relegated under these circumstances.

 

To my knowledge it has never happened before where an EFL points deduction has resulted in a team being relegated or taken out of the promotion picture because of a FFP charge. Maybe even for a administration deduction also. And the good thing about a non fixed penalty like this is that they can effectively set it at whatever they see as appropriate.

 

Why am I saying 5 points. Because that takes us down to 51 points. Meaning technically speaking we could still end up in the relegation zone come 9.30 on Wednesday, but the reality of it means we are safe as Luton would need to win about 20-0. This is good as it means we have a been given a points deduction and that can say mathematically they still put us in danger of the drop.

  If as you say the 5 point punishment could not possibly fit the crime if we are found guilty and it must be 9 as a minimum. Then we will miraculously win the case against us. 

 

As for the chairman bit. Let's say for example they found out to fight the charge properly and have the best chance of winning it. It was going to take months, maybe even years and cost almost 10 million pound in total. Out of all the chairman down there. Which do you recon would be more likely to do that?

 The chances are the reason it's going on so long is because we are throwing everything we got at them to make sure it doesn't result in us going down.

 

If they really wanted to give us a proper punishment of say 12+ points. Then we would have found out weeks ago so we knew exactly what we needed in order to survive.

 

IF we are found guilty of misconduct and deserve a "proper punishment" then it's likely we've over shot P&S limits for that 3 year period by around £25m. A serious breach which would very likely mean a higher than 5 point deduction.

 

Now to add to your " so we knew exactly what we needed in order to survive." comment.

 

IF we've committed this serious breach, why would any punishment be diluted down so's not to appear as a deterrent to other clubs? It doesn't say in the EFL regulations , don't worry if your playing crap in second half of the season and your form warrants a bottom three place. Any points deductions will be given in plenty of time for you pull your socks and try a bit harder to avoid relegation.

 

Lets say we got a 15 point deduction at the end of Feb after the Derby game taking us down to 33 points and 6 points from safety. That would leave us requiring at 17 points from the remaining 10 fixtures to have at least a chance of staying up. That's obviously 1.7 ppg, something we've not achieved all season over a 10 game period.

 

People need to face facts, any points deduction of 12 points or over at any point of this season was going to effectively relegate us. We've not been good enough consistently to avoid it,

 

What ever is coming our way, punishment wise, take it on the chin, accept it with no appeal and lets get on with preparing for next season, what ever league that may be in.

 

Edited by Mcguigan
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I'd take minus 12 next season over minus 12 this season. We'd have to work hard and hope for a decent run to get started but I'm not convinced it'd be all bad. Us against the world, celebrating when we get to zero, celebrating when we overtake a team for the first time. Theoretically we could be 12 points off the playoffs after 4 games. 12 points off with 44 games to go? Hardly mount everest.

 

Minus 12 this season relegates us and there's no guarantee that we'll survive next season. As a club I mean, as in we'd cease to exist. That's what they're talking about for a lot of teams in the bottom 2 divisions. No money comes in from TV. No money from fans. DC is being punished for putting money in, he's not gonna want to put more in because the people that punished him want him to now do it. 

 

I know I sound like a melodramatic tart but the above is my worst case scenario. Owt better than that is a bonus. 

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10 minutes ago, Maddogbob said:

If that's the case, what would be the point starting the season?

 

Hiding to nothing. Infact it would just be a relegation party all season. 

 

Our performances this season give me no confidence what so ever we could Claw back a - 12 start next season and survive mate. 

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3 minutes ago, Mcguigan said:

IF we are found guilty of misconduct and deserve a "proper punishment" then it's likely we've over shot P&S limits for that 3 year period by around £25m. A serious breach which would very likely mean a higher than 5 point deduction.

 

Now to add to your " so we knew exactly what we needed in order to survive." comment.

 

IF we've committed this serious breach, why would any punishment by diluted down so's not to appear as a deterrent to other clubs? It doesn't say in the EFL regulations , don't worry if your playing crap in second half of the season and your form warrants a bottom three place. Any points deductions will be given in plenty of time for you pull your socks and try a bit harder to avoid relegation.

 

Lets say we got a 15 point deduction at the end of Feb after the Derby game taking us down to 33 points and 6 points from safety. That would leave us requiring at 17 points from the remaining 10 fixtures to have at least a chance of staying up. That's obviously 1.7 ppg, something we've not achieved all season over a 10 game period.

 

People need to face facts, any points deduction of 12 points or over at any point of this season was going to effectively relegate us. We've not been good enough consistently to avoid it,

 

What ever is coming our way, punishment wise, take it on the chin, accept it with no appeal and lets get on with preparing for next season, what ever league that may be in.

 

Had we know what the punishment was points wise the players would have found it easier to reach that target. Our form from January fell away around the time that we found out about this. Its amazing what gets into a players head.

 

As for us taking our punishment on the chin and moving on. Do you honestly see Chansiri doing that, because I dont. I think he will proper chuck his toys out of the pram if we find out monday that they have relegated us.

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5 minutes ago, S36 OWL said:

 

Our performances this season give me no confidence what so ever we could Claw back a - 12 start next season and survive mate. 

I just think on top of that, why would anyone want a season ticket to watch a non competitive season of football? 

 

Apart from blind loyalty. 

 

Edited by Maddogbob
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3 minutes ago, pazowl55 said:

Had we know what the punishment was points wise the players would have found it easier to reach that target. Our form from January fell away around the time that we found out about this. Its amazing what gets into a players head.

 

As for us taking our punishment on the chin and moving on. Do you honestly see Chansiri doing that, because I dont. I think he will proper chuck his toys out of the pram if we find out monday that they have relegated us.

What else can he do? 

 

If the top sports lawyer in the country's case has folded, whats left?

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1 minute ago, Maddogbob said:

I just think on top of that, why would anyone want a season ticket to watch a non competitive season of football? 

 

Apart from blind loyalty. 

 

For the first time in over 30 years, I didn't renew mine early on, instead choosing to wait till the summer   in hindsight with the pandemic and the possible relegation I think I dodged a bullet. I just had a feeling that we were going to be in a relegation scrap, and I wasn't prepared to pay those prices if we end up in league one. 

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21 hours ago, BIG D said:

Bristol Post

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/barnsley-chief-threatens-efl-slams-4339318

 

 

Barnsley chief threatens EFL and slams 'cheating’ Derby County, Sheffield Wednesday and Birmingham City

 

Barnsley co-chairman Paul Conway has slammed the English Football League for their inability to regulate Derby County, Sheffield Wednesday and Birmingham City, labelling their actions as 'cheating'.

The Championship relegation picture remains unclear with two matches left to play this season.

Derby and Sheffield Wednesday are still awaiting the verdicts from their trials over financial misconduct charges, with both clubs vigorously denying the charges, which could lead to a points deduction of up to 21 points.

 

Equally, Birmingham were found guilty of breaching an EFL financial plan early this year, upon appeal, although no sanctions were issued.

With Wigan Athletic also facing a deduction of 12 points for entering administration, the final league standings could yet look very different despite there being less than a week to run of the normal season.

It was reported earlier this year that Barnsley, who sit bottom of the Championship and on the brink of an immediate return to League One, were prepared to sue the EFL for loss of earnings, if the outstanding legal cases against Wednesday and Derby are not concluded.

Conway has reiterated that the club remains committed to that stance, whilst blasting the EFL for their inability to exact correct punishment for those found guilty of breaching financial regulations.

"You have scam stadium deals, fake sponsorship contracts, delinquent financials, not paying players on time, huge debts and no action," Conway told The Telegraph. "It’s really not good for English football and not encouraging investment.

 

‘If little old Barnsley and its supporters have to lead the way to clean up English football then we’ll do it by any means necessary. If that has to be litigation, so be it."

He added: "We’ve invested in four football clubs in four countries, and been at the highest level in the Champions League, and frankly England is the worst place to operate.

"Many teams cheat and the league is so weak enforcing its own rules. In most other leagues, not paying players on time is automatic relegation. Administration in France and Spain is relegation by two divisions.

 

"In England, teams like Derby and Wigan, maybe even Sheffield Wednesday, don’t pay their players [on time] and they don’t receive any penalties.

"A serial offender in Birmingham were found guilty again and what was their punishment? Nothing.

"The whole purpose of the league is to prevent sporting advantages that are unfair. The division is incredibly close and any sporting advantage has a huge impact."

 

Bristol City's CEO Mark Ashton also sits on the EFL board and the Robins have maintained they are in favour of greater financial governance that enables more clubs to be run in a sustainable fashion.

The club support the idea of a salary cap, or "wage control" as the concept tends to be labelled in football with discussions to be held later this month over an £18m limit for 2020/21.

He has a point though.

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9 minutes ago, pazowl55 said:

Had we know what the punishment was points wise the players would have found it easier to reach that target. Our form from January fell away around the time that we found out about this. Its amazing what gets into a players head.

 

As for us taking our punishment on the chin and moving on. Do you honestly see Chansiri doing that, because I dont. I think he will proper chuck his toys out of the pram if we find out monday that they have relegated us.

I admire your optimism that this shower of a squad would suddenly turn into promotion contenders had they have been told of a deduction in January.

 

The players actually found out about the charge, like the rest of us around 18th Nov. From the 5 games after 19th Nov we took 13 points from 15, wasn't really in the players heads then.

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Just now, Mcguigan said:

What else can he do? 

 

If the top sports lawyer in the country's case has folded, whats left?

Refuse to play against Middlesbrough. Say he is pulling us out of the league and set up his own league for us to play in (sponsored by Elev8). Say he is buying the EFL and they are all sacked. Wouldnt put anything past him.

lol

 

But in all seriousness though. We will appeal it and that will take time to sort. And if we won then they would have to reverse our relegation and relegate someone else, with maybe a week to go before the new season. Which is why this never really happens. Causes to much agro.

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Guest Mcguigan
5 minutes ago, pazowl55 said:

Refuse to play against Middlesbrough. Say he is pulling us out of the league and set up his own league for us to play in (sponsored by Elev8). Say he is buying the EFL and they are all sacked. Wouldnt put anything past him.

lol

 

But in all seriousness though. We will appeal it and that will take time to sort. And if we won then they would have to reverse our relegation and relegate someone else, with maybe a week to go before the new season. Which is why this never really happens. Causes to much agro.

And if we lose? are we then hit with further punishment?

 

The EFL is group of member clubs, all with voting powers. No punishment is off the table. Imagine losing an appeal and not only staying relegated but starting League 1 on -15 points. That could crippled the clubs for years and years. It would be be the end of us.

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3 minutes ago, Mcguigan said:

And if we lose? are we then hit with further punishment?

 

The EFL is group of member clubs, all with voting powers. No punishment is off the table. Imagine losing an appeal and not only staying relegated but starting League 1 on -15 points. That could crippled the clubs for years and years. It would be be the end of us.

They are not going to give us a penalty for losing an appeal are they. And if we are relegated I honestly think he will just go at them with everything we got again. Regardless of what punishments they may give us in league one.

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1 hour ago, sheffsteel said:


Very much agree, history shows that the EFL don’t like to rock the boat too much...as it can create legal challenges.

Regards Birmingham last season.....it seemed that they waited to see what effect a 10 point deduction would have. Then once Birmingham fell away from the play-off race...the EFL flexed their muscles and gave them a 10 point deduction knowing it wasn’t really a punishment. 
 

Any fair minded person.....even when shown loads of evidence that SWFC might be 100% guilty...so deservIng punishment 

would cite the timing of delivering a punishment with 1 match to go or at the end of a season as totally unfair and wrong.

 

I thought all along that the longer the delay then it becomes more unlikely it can effect this season.

I sure that if here’s a points deduction it will be pushed on to next season.

 

1 hour ago, latemodelchild said:

I've seen loads of people saying this type of thing. Personally I'm not sure they'll care when the punishment is delivered. If they'd deducted 12 points from us at any point this season we'd be in the mire. I suppose there's an argument that says we'd have worked harder etc but not sure they'd take that into account. 

 

Having said that, you lot kept banging on about how 1 man was capable of being the difference to a relegation battle until you got 1 judge to agree then pounced on it to get money out of West ham. Maybe we should just keep asking different people til we get one to agree. Still, you must be loving it at the moment, knocking on the door of Europe, media darlings and most importantly to every blade, we're doing badly. 

 

Yup seen it said a few times that Birmingham were given a punishment that didn't affect them.

 

They were placed just 5 points above relegation with 8 games left having been on a terrible run. Yes they stayed up but it wasn't by any means a meaningless punishment.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/mar/22/birmingham-city-deducted-nine-points-efl-football-league-financial-breaches

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Football has been taken over by money, its in a complete mess, I am more concerned about the long term future of many clubs 

 

including ours. There are going to be masses of clubs going to the wall in the next few years unless those in control of the game dont 

 

sort it.

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