billyblack Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 22 minutes ago, pioowl said: Investment is supplying funds hoping the business will benefit from it.The club is not homeless.The clubs owner owns the stadium which is certainly not unsafe.The little bit about Brentford is partly true!! 'Hoping'. I would class investing as spending with a 'plan' to create value rather than hoping and urinating in the wind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plonk Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 38 minutes ago, WalthamOwl said: very good post. Yes the ‘new evidence’ is the thing that is a massive worry. But both Wednesday and the solicitor will be aware of what it is and how it can be refuted or the solicitor would have said plead guilty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljhowl Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 31 minutes ago, room0035 said: Investment means you have improved something. Brentford over the last 5 years have invested in their recruitment, their team and are moving into a new stadium that is investment In the 5 years under DC he has SPENT in excess of £100m We are homeless having to sell the stadium to cover his losses, we have a team full of kids, frees and loans because all the money wasted on recruitment will be leaving in 10 days. We are not allowed to watch games at our stadium (before Co Vid) because big section are not deemed safe. Where has DC improved the football club with his investment?? All this stuff about Brentford Brentford Brentford. Look they have a huge catchment area for players, can easily scoop up the dregs of Arsenal, Chelsea, etc. They have no trouble attracting good quality players because frankly it's London. The reality is plenty of young guys want to live there, especially when they have a bit of coin. Brentford can employ that marvellous conveyor belt of selling players on for a profit and replacing them with players which they then sell on for a profit, simply because there is a conveyor belt. We, and the vast majority of other clubs, don't have that luxury so the Brentford model is totally irrelevant to us. And for all Brentford being absolutely fabulous, what have they ever won? Talk about a non-descript club with a passionless, obsure fanbase. Blxxdy Brentford. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 18 minutes ago, bigthinrob said: Your actual definition is not far from the mark. Where your argument falls down is that your opinion (like a lot on here) is purely based on hindsight. Do you seriously think that for one minute, DC throwing money at it, was for any other reason than his belief (if now seen as misguided) that his spending would IMPROVE what we had, get promotion and subsequently GAIN A PROFIT FROM IT. It is ridiculously easy to judge any event from football to the response to Covid after events have already unfolded. With any investment or project you have to regularly look at it and if it is not going the way you had hoped push it back on track. I would have hoped this was happening at the very least at the end of each season, looking at what went well, what needed improving and where we were not at the races. I just don't see this happening we continue to make the same mistakes. The financial plan for the club is promotion, but what the plan B if that doesn't happen - don't think there is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 1 minute ago, ljhowl said: All this stuff about Brentford Brentford Brentford. Look they have a huge catchment area for players, can easily scoop up the dregs of Arsenal, Chelsea, etc. They have no trouble attracting good quality players because frankly it's London. The reality is plenty of young guys want to live there, especially when they have a bit of coin. Brentford can employ that marvellous conveyor belt of selling players on for a profit and replacing them with players which they then sell on for a profit, simply because there is a conveyor belt. We, and the vast majority of other clubs, don't have that luxury so the Brentford model is totally irrelevant to us. And for all Brentford being absolutely fabulous, what have they ever won? Talk about a non-descript club with a passionless, obsure fanbase. Blxxdy Brentford. So unless you are in London, its impossible to have a good business plan? Id swap our books for Brentford and history means nothing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daizan10 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ljhowl said: All this stuff about Brentford Brentford Brentford. Look they have a huge catchment area for players, can easily scoop up the dregs of Arsenal, Chelsea, etc. They have no trouble attracting good quality players because frankly it's London. The reality is plenty of young guys want to live there, especially when they have a bit of coin. Brentford can employ that marvellous conveyor belt of selling players on for a profit and replacing them with players which they then sell on for a profit, simply because there is a conveyor belt. We, and the vast majority of other clubs, don't have that luxury so the Brentford model is totally irrelevant to us. And for all Brentford being absolutely fabulous, what have they ever won? Talk about a non-descript club with a passionless, obsure fanbase. Blxxdy Brentford. I don't think this is entirely correct. Brentford certainly have an advantage in that they are in London and its a big catchment area with a lot of pull for people, but that doesnt make it impossible for other clubs to prioritise buying young players and scouting broadly to find hidden gems - then selling for profit. I dont think a great many of their players have been released from other London clubs, more scouted from obscure clubs. The Brentford model is a viable method we should at least be utilising as part of our plan. Buying players who have resale value - rather than players at their peak. Edited June 24, 2020 by Daizan10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 8 minutes ago, ljhowl said: All this stuff about Brentford Brentford Brentford. Look they have a huge catchment area for players, can easily scoop up the dregs of Arsenal, Chelsea, etc. They have no trouble attracting good quality players because frankly it's London. The reality is plenty of young guys want to live there, especially when they have a bit of coin. Brentford can employ that marvellous conveyor belt of selling players on for a profit and replacing them with players which they then sell on for a profit, simply because there is a conveyor belt. We, and the vast majority of other clubs, don't have that luxury so the Brentford model is totally irrelevant to us. And for all Brentford being absolutely fabulous, what have they ever won? Talk about a non-descript club with a passionless, obsure fanbase. Blxxdy Brentford. Indeed in 6 years then have gone from a team promoted to the championship, have improved year on year and only this last year made a profit of £20m, while paying for there new stadium. Football has to change teams need to live within there means and like it or not Brentford are a success story and if not this season, in the next few they will be a premier league team, us on the other hand we are a long way off that dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalthamOwl Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 One of the things I find odd is that if we really do have evidence saying we had permission about the ground sale and we could put it in to said years accounts why are we still being perused by the EFL? Surely there would be no case to answer and it wouldn’t have been decided to go before a panel? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 1 minute ago, WalthamOwl said: One of the things I find odd is that if we really do have evidence saying we had permission about the ground sale and we could put it in to said years accounts why are we still being perused by the EFL? Surely there would be no case to answer and it wouldn’t have been decided to go before a panel? I just think we had agreement to sell the ground. I cant believe for one moment that the EFL would agree to us backdating it for a year. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljhowl Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 5 minutes ago, billyblack said: So unless you are in London, its impossible to have a good business plan? Id swap our books for Brentford and history means nothing. No what I'm saying is I'm sick of everyone harping on about the Brentford model, when it is totally irrelevant to us - and the vast majority of clubs - because of their circumstances. DC took a punt. Huge upside but rather significant (as we have been learning for the last couple of years) downside. But he's still throwing money in and fighting all the way. Long may that continue. Eventually he'll even be able to throw that money at players rather than QCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 13 minutes ago, bigthinrob said: I think you're absolutely right mate. I also happen to think the EFL are on very dodgy ground here. They remind me of the EU in a lot of ways. Threats, warnings, more threats until we are brainwashed into thinking 'we can't win'. Stand up to them, throw their threats back in their faces & they shrink like any bullies. The EFL in bringing the case forward to placate Steve Gibson & some bitter 6 fingered types who are already doomed regardless, shows the nature of the EFL beast. I also wonder whether they have come across someone as stubborn as DC (and the Derby protagonists) not to mention the money on Barristers he will be willing to throw at it. The EFL can't back out now, they'd lose face, but they will see our case, they will see the might of Derby's case looming and be thinking "what have we taken on here". They have already lost the first round. I fully expect an agreement where we allow our wrist to be tickled but it be called a "slap" accept a token punishment & move on. I also happen to think it will mark the beginning of the end (to quote Churchill) of the current structure and modus operandi of the EFL and not before time. I’ve said countless times before that the EFL in it’s current form will be no more sometime in the near future and Premier League 2 is an inevitability? Also I expect clubs who are on their uppers either in League’s 1 or 2 or National League to become feeder clubs for the rich and powerful. It’s not what most fans want but it’s inevitable? Also youngsters playing competitive lower league football may be an upgrade on Under-23 football that has it’s fair share of critics? The irony is when PL 2 is on the horizon there will be a certain chairman up in Teeside who will want to be at the forefront of it? I hope he’s told to do one by the majority? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljhowl Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 10 minutes ago, Daizan10 said: I don't think this is entirely correct. Brentford certainly have an advantage in that they are in London and its a big catchment area with a lot of pull for people, but that doesnt make it impossible for other clubs to prioritise buying young players and scouting broadly to find hidden gems - then selling for profit. I dont think a great many of their players have been released from other London clubs, more scouted from obscure clubs. The Brentford model is a viable method we should at least be utilising as part of our plan. Buying players who have resale value - rather than players at their peak. It's as much about the ability to attract players. Let's see, go to Hull or Sheffield or .....London. I'm NOT knocking Sheffield but, well, you know..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalthamOwl Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 6 minutes ago, billyblack said: I just think we had agreement to sell the ground. I cant believe for one moment that the EFL would agree to us backdating it for a year. Yeah that’s my feeling. So you believe we have evidence we can sell the ground but not evidence we could backdate the transaction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheff74 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 25 minutes ago, Plonk said: But both Wednesday and the solicitor will be aware of what it is and how it can be refuted or the solicitor would have said plead guilty A solicitor can only advise a client to make a guilty plea, not force them. Lots of posters above lauding Chansiri's stubbornness and let's be honest this is a trait he has displayed in his engagement with supporters, so he doesn't strike me as the type to take advice that he doesn't like. The solicitor gets paid either way, and should it go to appeal will cash in even more. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevthelodgemoorowl Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 3 hours ago, royalowlisback said: Think it's code that he likes a good product placement. Makes perfect sense. Seiko and you will Findo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbupperthongowl Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 15 minutes ago, WalthamOwl said: One of the things I find odd is that if we really do have evidence saying we had permission about the ground sale and we could put it in to said years accounts why are we still being perused by the EFL? Surely there would be no case to answer and it wouldn’t have been decided to go before a panel? Isn't this due to the new information they discovered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalthamOwl Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Just now, nbupperthongowl said: Isn't this due to the new information they discovered? yeah probably so. Would love to know what the new evidence is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nero Posted June 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 24, 2020 While we are waiting I thought some might be interested in how tribunals like this go. I'm not going to pretend to be a Lawyer or Barrister but I have attended quite a few as expert witness (construction contracts) and also to employment tribunals. Both of those are generally fronted by Barristers for defence and prosecution of the case and its quite a unique situation to be part of. Generally the 'prosecution' makes their case. There are questions and witnesses. Then the defence. The tribunal will ask questions. Barristers answers all the questions so its important that the Barrister knows his brief well and can communicate with us to counter any new accusations. Tribunal go away deliberate and reach a verdict. the best part of attending a tribunal is watching a Barrister at work, they are incredible. The case is a big part of the verdict of course, but it can go right or wrong on the day. Some of the magistrates in employment tribunals have reached unfathomable decisions. That isn't likely to happen in ours but it is worth mentioning that nobody really knows until the day how the case looks. It is a big plus that our case is strong enough to attract a barrister with a great rep. Frankly if we had no chance Nick De Marco probably wouldn't be representing us. Losses dont look good on Barristers CVs no matter what the money. The final verdict will be case proved or not but that isn't the end of the story. The actual 'sentence' will be based on a tariff but the tribunal will mitigate if they think this is fair. From our perspective if there is any uncertainty that might have been caused by EFL this will be important even if we are found to have breached. 9 points is possibly the full tariff but it looks from a distance that there is at least some confusion in how this all came about. This is our friend. I would be very surprised if there wasn't some mitigation that lowers the tariff based on what we have heard. Anyway that's my take on it. Let's hope the EFL case is as flimsy as it appears and we haven't done something stupid rather than tried to bend not break the rules. Fingers crossed. 10 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbupperthongowl Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Just now, WalthamOwl said: yeah probably so. Would love to know what the new evidence is. One line in an email that can be construed more than one way....we think it means this, they think it means something else Or someone Comms that conflict with what has been said before, can't help but think that this will be decided over a technicality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wall Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 18 minutes ago, WalthamOwl said: One of the things I find odd is that if we really do have evidence saying we had permission about the ground sale and we could put it in to said years accounts why are we still being perused by the EFL? Surely there would be no case to answer and it wouldn’t have been decided to go before a panel? I suspect the email doesn't say 'exactly' that, and there is some degree of interpretation to be argued about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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