Westfield Owl Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 2 hours ago, CalmJimmers said: Probably been answered, so sorry if I'm repeating a question. Does FFP take into account parachute payments? If so, how can that be classed as 'fair'? You've got clubs with Prem wages coming down and basically give them a few years to smash the league whilst the rest 'live within their means'. Since FFP has come in, it's not stopped Bury go down the pan, Wigan and Macclesfield to struggle etc etc. So it's not stopping clubs going under or massive spending from happening, so what is it supposed to do? Not trying to make excuses for us - if we've broken the rules then that is that, but the rules seem bloody stupid anyway. The Wigan, Bury and Macclesfield situations show exactly why clubs need their spending to be kept in line. Many more clubs might be in perilous financial positions if the EFL hadn’t created such a bold deterrent against reckless overspending. I can’t criticise the EFL’s objective to put an end to chairman gambling with a club’s future existence. We can’t just slag off the rules because our owner has SWFC running under a dangerously unsustainable business model. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalmJimmers Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, Westfield Owl said: The Wigan, Bury and Macclesfield situations show exactly why clubs need their spending to be kept in line. Many more clubs might be in perilous financial positions if the EFL hadn’t created such a bold deterrent against reckless overspending. I can’t criticise the EFL’s objective to put an end to chairman gambling with a club’s future existence. We can’t just slag off the rules because our owner has SWFC running under a dangerously unsustainable business model. Like I said, we've broken the rules so punish us. How have these rules stopped clubs going to the wall and going into admin? And how are they fair when they don't negate parachute payments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlyegg Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, Westfield Owl said: We can’t just slag off the rules because our owner has SWFC running under a dangerously unsustainable business model. If chairman A has £10M And chairman B has £50M. How can the EFL stop chairman A going bust ? £39M limit won't help... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nut Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 23 minutes ago, Westfield Owl said: The Wigan, Bury and Macclesfield situations show exactly why clubs need their spending to be kept in line. Many more clubs might be in perilous financial positions if the EFL hadn’t created such a bold deterrent against reckless overspending. I can’t criticise the EFL’s objective to put an end to chairman gambling with a club’s future existence. We can’t just slag off the rules because our owner has SWFC running under a dangerously unsustainable business model. Just think what a mess clubs would be in if they'd been allowed to spend unlimited amounts of money then Covid hit. P&S, for all its faults has probably saved quite a few clubs and local businesses who supply them from bankruptcy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gizowl Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 5 hours ago, gizowl said: This could possibly be the case, delaying the outcome till the sheep hearing is over. I know the charges are different and ours was more complex but they have got to get the balance right if punishment is to be given. Also it gives the independent panel another chance to look how the EFL have been handling matters and cooperating with the said clubs and ways they could do better in the future. Man city winning their appeal today will have put the EFL and Premier league on the back foot as regards FFP. IF a owner or owner's have funds to cover their expenditure then they should be able to do so providing they actually put in the funds to cover the losses on a annual basis. What is the problem it's their money and their club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeadonowl Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 55 minutes ago, Hedwig said: You could look to introduce 3 things to assist in curtailing unnecessary spending (**not sure if these fall within the rules for the FFP threshold though).. 1. Introduce a Player Salary Cap 2. Transfer Cap ** 3. Get rid of excessive agents fees ** There has to be some sort of control on spending or what we are seeing now with us, Derby, Villa etc will become the norm as teams chase the golden goose of the EPL. All that happens with salary caps is that the players wives etc are suddenly employed as admin assistants on mega wages Abolish FFP completely and let people spend what they want like they can in any other business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobayashi Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 28 minutes ago, Westfield Owl said: The Wigan, Bury and Macclesfield situations show exactly why clubs need their spending to be kept in line. Many more clubs might be in perilous financial positions if the EFL hadn’t created such a bold deterrent against reckless overspending. I can’t criticise the EFL’s objective to put an end to chairman gambling with a club’s future existence. We can’t just slag off the rules because our owner has SWFC running under a dangerously unsustainable business model. Wigan, Bury etc. shows more about the perils of unscrupulous and unsuitable owners rather than spending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 minute ago, yeadonowl said: All that happens with salary caps is that the players wives etc are suddenly employed as admin assistants on mega wages Abolish FFP completely and let people spend what they want like they can in any other business That didn't work last time though Chairmen were getting their clubs into all kinds of debt and massively overspending, and it meant clubs were going into administration Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradowl Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 58 minutes ago, Hedwig said: You could look to introduce 3 things to assist in curtailing unnecessary spending (**not sure if these fall within the rules for the FFP threshold though).. 1. Introduce a Player Salary Cap 2. Transfer Cap ** 3. Get rid of excessive agents fees ** There has to be some sort of control on spending or what we are seeing now with us, Derby, Villa etc will become the norm as teams chase the golden goose of the EPL. Agents are leeches of game, trying to push their players for a transfer all time knowing they're after a cut of money. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 54 minutes ago, Animis said: I wonder if they are sent to the EFL once they're signed off by the auditors, and before downloaded on the companies house website? The new season will likely start September so hypothetically we could get sanctioned before it starts if we've breach the FFP for the three years, which is likely to be the case. The process with EFL is a bit more complicated in terms of when they see draft figures, final figures, interim for the next year, different deadlines. So the actual signed off figures should not be radically different to what they have previously seen. Still think that is the issue. That the sale of the stadium transaction was agreed by the EFL but that we then back tracked it into figures for 2018 when there has been no previous reference to it in previous provisional figures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeadonowl Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 minute ago, @owlstalk said: That didn't work last time though Chairmen were getting their clubs into all kinds of debt and massively overspending, and it meant clubs were going into administration Gary Neville just hit the nail on the head FFP needs tweaking so that the test is based on owners affordability. If an owner has 1 trillion pounds why can’t he spend 1 billion as they can afford it. The issue is if the owner has 500k and spends a million that is the issue He speaks as an owner and he wants owner guarantees brought in to cover losses 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulva Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, yeadonowl said: Gary Neville just hit the nail on the head FFP needs tweaking so that the test is based on owners affordability. If an owner has 1 trillion pounds why can’t he spend 1 billion as they can afford it. The issue is if the owner has 500k and spends a million that is the issue He speaks as an owner and he wants owner guarantees brought in to cover losses How the hell would they calculate that? How do you value someone’s net worth. It’s virtually impossible at that level and changes daily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew6666 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Hedwig said: You could look to introduce 3 things to assist in curtailing unnecessary spending (**not sure if these fall within the rules for the FFP threshold though).. 1. Introduce a Player Salary Cap 2. Transfer Cap ** 3. Get rid of excessive agents fees ** There has to be some sort of control on spending or what we are seeing now with us, Derby, Villa etc will become the norm as teams chase the golden goose of the EPL. The salary cap is constantly being cheated in Rugby League, the number of players wives earning a fortune for working a couple of hours in the club shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_D Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Maybe we are innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobayashi Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, yeadonowl said: Gary Neville just hit the nail on the head FFP needs tweaking so that the test is based on owners affordability. If an owner has 1 trillion pounds why can’t he spend 1 billion as they can afford it. The issue is if the owner has 500k and spends a million that is the issue He speaks as an owner and he wants owner guarantees brought in to cover losses Didn’t the Wigan owner prove significant funding a few days before they entered admin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarrowbyOwl Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, mkowl said: The process with EFL is a bit more complicated in terms of when they see draft figures, final figures, interim for the next year, different deadlines. So the actual signed off figures should not be radically different to what they have previously seen. Still think that is the issue. That the sale of the stadium transaction was agreed by the EFL but that we then back tracked it into figures for 2018 when there has been no previous reference to it in previous provisional figures I think you’re probably right on that Kev. i guess it then comes down to whether the previous forward reporting can be squared with a late change of ‘accounting strategy’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeadonowl Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 15 minutes ago, vulva said: How the hell would they calculate that? How do you value someone’s net worth. It’s virtually impossible at that level and changes daily. Fairly easy I’d imagine Start of season legal contract is drawn up so that owner underwrites proposed budgeted losses. The punishment can then be based if the club then exceeds these budgeted losses Gives owner the right to invest as they see fit like they can in any other business 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grandad Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Put the seasons forecasted loss into Escrow at the start of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Grandad said: Put the seasons forecasted loss into Escrow at the start of the season. Yes that could work...£2B in the account...of we go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grandad Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Just now, daveyboy66 said: Yes that could work...£2B in the account...of we go Well we do have unlimited funds. It's just the EFL that's stopping him spending it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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