Kew Owl Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 hour ago, WalthamOwl said: I think it means altogether we would have 21 points as punishment. 12 of those would be applied now and the remaining 9 kept on the back burner for if we mess up again. Yes, I think it’s 21 in total, but I’m not sure that when it says 9 are “suspended”, it means conditional on us not re-offending. Couldnt “suspended” here just mean “ delayed “ - I e held over till next season so we would start next season on minus 9 whether we re-offend or not ? Hope that’s not the case, obviously ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BARMYARMY2010 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Ian said: im struggling to see how, if proved, spending too much money get the same or worse penalty than going in to administration and not paying for the money you have spent with potentially horrendous life changing consequences for innocent people Hallelujah,someone else that struggles with an ffp/P&S Issue being more punishable than a club going into admin,shafting all and sundry owed money,quite why and how Wigans penalty hasn't put them in the relegation zone as yet beggars belief,but any tweet/text,hint, or i've heard,alluding to upto 21 points penalty for swfc is somehow accepted.........................WTF is that about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 the amount of "heard from a reliable source" rubbish is becoming a joke...heard from a reliable source it will be announced in the next 24 hours blah blah blah I haven't heard anything what so ever from "reliable sources", but applying some logic there's us, Derby and don't forget Reading facing these charges about selling the ground... announcing a ruling on one of them is going to set a precedent, I think the EFL have dug themselves a massive hole, maybe waiting till all cases have been heard. and that's not based on my mate texting me etc etc....just an opnion 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 oh and given that pretty much every club are going to post MASSIVE losses for this season, its going to be hard to justify relegating a club via points deductions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando_Trustful Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 5 hours ago, WalthamOwl said: I just really can’t see them giving us a point deduction this season with only 4 games left. I agree. Derby have also been charged this season, however their hearing won't take place before the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Owl Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 39 minutes ago, Dot said: the amount of "heard from a reliable source" rubbish is becoming a joke...heard from a reliable source it will be announced in the next 24 hours blah blah blah I haven't heard anything what so ever from "reliable sources", but applying some logic there's us, Derby and don't forget Reading facing these charges about selling the ground... announcing a ruling on one of them is going to set a precedent, I think the EFL have dug themselves a massive hole, maybe waiting till all cases have been heard. and that's not based on my mate texting me etc etc....just an opnion Plus more likely than not, Villa and Bournemouth who both flouted the regulations to get promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essix Blue Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 6 hours ago, HarrowbyOwl said: Max 12 points for breaching P&S limit and up to 9 for aggravating factors Ok. I got it the wrong way round, but I think the amount we breached P&S by meant -9, plus the aggravation bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwë Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 6 hours ago, Kew Owl said: Yes, I think it’s 21 in total, but I’m not sure that when it says 9 are “suspended”, it means conditional on us not re-offending. Couldnt “suspended” here just mean “ delayed “ - I e held over till next season so we would start next season on minus 9 whether we re-offend or not ? Hope that’s not the case, obviously ! No, a suspended sentence is not a delayed sentence, it's a sentence that will come to pass only if the Club break the rules again. If the Club did break the rules again, they would be punished for the new offence and also the suspended punishment would kick in. It would be accumulative. It's a good incentive to stay on the straight and narrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essix Blue Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 5 hours ago, Dot said: the amount of "heard from a reliable source" rubbish is becoming a joke...heard from a reliable source it will be announced in the next 24 hours blah blah blah I haven't heard anything what so ever from "reliable sources", but applying some logic there's us, Derby and don't forget Reading facing these charges about selling the ground... announcing a ruling on one of them is going to set a precedent, I think the EFL have dug themselves a massive hole, maybe waiting till all cases have been heard. and that's not based on my mate texting me etc etc....just an opnion I mentioned similar earlier in the thread. They find us guilty, deduct points and we get relegated, then they find derby guilty AFTER they’re promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owls-swfc Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 23 hours ago, owls-swfc said: # wakes up to Sonny and Cher' - 'I got you babe' playing on the radio again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latemodelchild Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Worryingly, I've woken up a bit more optimistic this morning. No idea why, but it usually means Wednesday are about to slam me in the plums. Maybe we've done some accountancy practices that aren't actually legislated for or against in the EFL rules. A loophole if you like. The EFL are wanting to punish us but our accountants who signed it off are saying we have done nothing wrong. Right at the start of all this, posters on here who I trust were saying that if the accounts had been signed off then the firm that did it must have been sure they were OK. This isn't play time, it's serious business with real world ramifications and hard won reputations on the line. Ever since I read those posts I've had a bit of hope. Independent panel or not, no firm is going to risk it because the consequences are grave. If we have had the go ahead from someone at the EFL, whether they're still there or not, then we will have a paper trail. Obviously the other side of that coin is that if it was as open and shut as how I've outlined above then would we all still be waking up to Sonny and Cher 3 weeks after it all started? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 5 hours ago, Dot said: oh and given that pretty much every club are going to post MASSIVE losses for this season, its going to be hard to justify relegating a club via points deductions Ours arent losses for this season, it was for the 3 seasons before. Nothing to do with this season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddybeararmy Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, billyblack said: Ours arent losses for this season, it was for the 3 seasons before. Nothing to do with this season. Not even last season's, we have yet to release 18-19 accounts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ferkorf Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 9 hours ago, Ian said: im struggling to see how, if proved, spending too much money get the same or worse penalty than going in to administration and not paying for the money you have spent with potentially horrendous life changing consequences for innocent people Birmingham only got 9 points deducted and they spent over 39 million more than what they should have but from what I can remember the season before the Efl basically warned them and agreed a spending plan with the to help them also a ban on registering players mid 2018. Their chairman then went on to sign 4 or 5 players including pederson for 2 or 3 million then the Efl ended up slamming them infront of the independent panel. After a week long hearing they gave them a 9 point dediction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazapeps Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ferkorf said: Birmingham only got 9 points deducted and they spent over 39 million more than what they should have but from what I can remember the season before the Efl basically warned them and agreed a spending plan with the to help them also a ban on registering players mid 2018. Their chairman then went on to sign 4 or 5 players including pederson for 2 or 3 million then the Efl ended up slamming them infront of the independent panel. After a week long hearing they gave them a 9 point dediction I think you’ve some bits of that the wrong way round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWAW Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 7 hours ago, Dot said: the amount of "heard from a reliable source" rubbish is becoming a joke...heard from a reliable source it will be announced in the next 24 hours blah blah blah I haven't heard anything what so ever from "reliable sources", but applying some logic there's us, Derby and don't forget Reading facing these charges about selling the ground... announcing a ruling on one of them is going to set a precedent, I think the EFL have dug themselves a massive hole, maybe waiting till all cases have been heard. and that's not based on my mate texting me etc etc....just an opnion At this rate Barnsley could end up in the playoffs. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snaykz Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Seriously though, this is an absolute joke. Not only is this unfair on our club and its fans, it’s unfair on every other club in the bottom half of the division. Nobody knows where they stand. This hearing is now coming to the end of its third week. What the hell is going on? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ferkorf Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, bazapeps said: I think you’ve some bits of that the wrong way round Which bits? And cheers for letting me know. Like I said Im only going from vague memory Edited July 10, 2020 by Ferkorf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalthamOwl Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 9 hours ago, Ian said: im struggling to see how, if proved, spending too much money get the same or worse penalty than going in to administration and not paying for the money you have spent with potentially horrendous life changing consequences for innocent people whilst I agree with what you have put aren’t we being charged for the selling of the ground and putting in the wrong years accounts. It isn’t just a case of us spending to much money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, WalthamOwl said: whilst I agree with what you have put aren’t we being charged for the selling of the ground and putting in the wrong years accounts. It isn’t just a case of us spending to much money. Probably, but only EFL think that; Auditors, HMRC don't. It was a perfectly lawful transaction. We can only be deducted points if EFL successfully argue part or all of the ground sale transaction be excluded from P&S calculations. Our defence of reasonable reliance is a strong one. Having been told we could do this, denied opportunity to take other measures which otherwise may have meant we wouldn't breach P&S limits. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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