FreshOwl Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) Nope. We need more bodies in defence. Nowhere near good enough to play with just 3 Edited June 21, 2020 by FreshOwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, cowl said: I like 352 a lot, but as others have said, I'm not convinced with the 3 centre backs playing yesterday. Iorfa, I'll put mostly down to match sharpness, but I just don't think it's suited to Börner at all; no pace for one thing, but his positional sense seems to go somewhat awry playing in a back three too. Palmer, to be fair to him, did alright with the ball at his feet and his basic tackling and challenging for the ball was fine, but he continues to let his man drift away from him all too often. Still, in some ways he looked the most assured of the back line yesterday. It's usually the wing backs, or lack of them, that has been the main reason this formation doesn't work so well for us, but I felt that Murphy and Harris showed a decent amount of promise yesterday. From an attacking perspective, both got into very good positions, and I'll be charitable about their deliveries and suggest (hope) it was rustiness. Defensively, it was passable - certainly not a disaster - but we did seem to be exposed a lot down the channels. I'm not sure this is a formation for all games, but I hope Monk continues to work on this as I think there's something to it. I think Fox would be a better fit than Börner, for one thing, but it's possible he's being ‘punished’ for not signing a contract yet. Iorfa will get better when he remembers to pack his studded boots rather than his recently-greased ten-pin bowling shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 Just now, FreshOwl said: Nope. We need more men in defence. Nowhere near good enough to play with just 3 I’ll see your Forest and raise you Blackburn and Brentford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreshOwl Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Holmowl said: I’ll see your Forest and raise you Blackburn and Brentford. Brentford smashed us for 5 and Blackburn hit us for 5 at home, or am I missing something? Edited June 21, 2020 by FreshOwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowl Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Holmowl said: Iorfa will get better when he remembers to pack his studded boots rather than his recently-greased ten-pin bowling shoes. I hope so, but his form in the month leading up to the lockdown was on the slide, as was Börner's in the couple of months also before the lockdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 1 minute ago, FreshOwl said: Brentford smashed us for 5 and Blackburn hit us for 5 at home, or am I missing something? With four defenders. We had three yesterday and let next to nothing thru. Your post said three isn’t enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 1 minute ago, cowl said: I hope so, but his form in the month leading up to the lockdown was on the slide, as was Börner's in the couple of months also before the lockdown. Pun or not? He couldn’t stand up yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldishowl Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Holmowl said: Why do you think that? I think Lees is a better, faster (though not quick), wins more headers and has more positional nous than Borner. Where he is much weaker is his distribution, but that’s ok in a 352 as he has two wing-backs and three CMs each showing for the ball. We tried playing Lees in a back 3 under Jos and he was poor. Two reasons Firstly we tried to play out from the keeper and he is not good enough on the ball. Of course you don’t need to do that but he is far worse on the ball than Borner who is actually quite good at bringing the ball out. Don’t think Lees is any quicker than Borner. More importantly in a three you have to be comfortable to drift out wide and cover the space behind the wing back. Lees just isn’t, he panics when he has to even in a 4 and was awful when we played a 3. He is a traditional centre half , never happier than wrestling with a striker or heading the ball away. When he finds himself with the ball in space , or isolated against an attacker out wide he panics. If we need to play Lees we will go back to a 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Kidneys Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Holmowl said: We were rusty too. Unless you are Liverpool or Barca you never achieve perfection. It’s about being slightly stronger than most opponents over the season and it gets you promotion. Our wing-backs were far more troublesome to Forest than vice-versa. Borner worries me. Haven’t seen many slower players and his game-reading and positional play aren’t good enough to make up for it in the same way as Terry, Mertesacker or even Lyons. Agree on Borner ... He's too slow to play in a 3 ...More suited to a back 4. Fox would be better there in a 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 1 hour ago, wilyfox said: Fox would be a better fit, yes - if he stays. Penney for me. Nothing against Fox but I think Penney would slot right in there and has more energy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
York_Owl Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Could Borner play in the middle and have the quicker Fox and Iorfa providing cover either side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
York_Owl Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 1 minute ago, sonofbert2 said: Penney for me. Nothing against Fox but I think Penney would slot right in there and has more energy. Definitely at wing back but don’t see him as a left sided centre back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) I don’t think 4-4-2 suits us for a variety of reasons not least we don’t have the players physical or mobile enough to play the central 2 in midfield as we’d get overrun time and time again. Under Carlos we played a four but it wasn’t a conventional four, it was a central 3 more often Bannan, Lee and Hutchinson. Then you’d have Ross Wallace having a sort of free role but more often than not he stayed wide/right. The main width was provided by Hunt and Pudil who were arguably doing the role of a wing back in a conventional back four? As convuluted as it was, it worked. What we sort of saw yesterday was something similar. Bannan and Lee work better has part of a midfield 3 and if we haven’t got Fletcher then we don’t have anyone good enough to play the one up top so we need to play a front two. I agree that yesterday’s back 3 have their strengths and Weaknesses. Fox may be used once his immediate future becomes clear but I expect Lees to leave this summer if this formation is something we persevere with long term as he’s just not suited to it. It’ll be interesting to see what the 11 will be like next Sunday but I expect it to be much the same perhaps with Reach taking up one of the wing-back positions? Edited June 21, 2020 by Jim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wilyfox Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, sonofbert2 said: Penney for me. Nothing against Fox but I think Penney would slot right in there and has more energy. You'd play Penney on the left of 3 centre-backs? That was the debate, Fox or Börner. Penney for left wing-back, yes, or Reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, wilyfox said: You'd play Penney on the left of 3 centre-backs? That was the debate, Fox or Börner. Penney for left wing-back, yes, or Reach. Wing-back I meant, sorry.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
83owl Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 If we are going to play this formation for me we need a new CB in the summer. A loovens type that can play in the middle of the 3 and organise with Iorfa one side and fox/Palmer etc on the other. Lees is no use as part of a 3, borner I think lacks a bit of pace to play either the right or left side and sometimes can be prone to rushing out of position too often to play the central role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch McLovin Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 3 hours ago, wilyfox said: I don't like it. May get away with it against rusty opposition. Forest didn't play well. Once teams sharpen up again, I think we'd be ripped to shreds. Börner definitely does not have the legs to play on the left of a 3. Diagonal balls behind the wing-backs...we'd be f*cked. This. Forest were very poor but we more or less just played without a left back. I see what the op is saying and I believe in Odubajo Reach we have players who will be at there best at wing back but we don’t have the center half’s to play it. Iorfa would be decent but it won’t suit Borner (may be ok in the center) and won’t suit Lees either. For me just play 442 with Bannan on the left where he performs best and no square pegs in round holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Horses for courses. I thought we did ok yesterday, all things considered, and probably deserved the win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerson Thome Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Agree that Iorfa doesn't look all that comfortable in the centre of the 3. Although his first game at CB in a 2 he looked a bit like Bambi on Ice, and within a month he was our best player so maybe they are hoping he's a quick learner. But he does seem more suited to the RCB position, with his pace he doesn't mind being dragged into those wider positions. The only player in our squad I would think is suited to being in the centre of the 3 is Hutchinson, but think those bridges have been burned. Perhaps one for the transfer market in the summer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheriwozgod Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Been saying all season that its the formation that best suits the personnel we have. Monk just needs to fine tune his selection now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now