Garry Monks Contract

[royalowlisback]

22 hours ago, catchyouaround said:

He's on a one year rolling contract

Maybe can we give it a push then?

[soldierboyblue]

2 minutes ago, Belfast Owl 2 said:

 

Who is undermining him? Is is the fans who are responsible for two 5-0 defeats in 2020?

 

You can't force fans to get behind a manager if they think he is doing an awful job. They don't need to be told what to do.

I’d stop looking at the manager for the manner of these defeats and point the finger of blame at the payers who blatantly didn’t give a throw 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

I don’t get the posts that say well we can’t think of anyone better so let’s stick with the guy who isn’t delivering.

 

If we stick with Monk then we will get more of the same... poor performances, overly defensive tactics, poor substitutions and falling out with players who don’t stroke his ego, plus contract extensions for players playing about 3 leagues above their level. That’s a known quantity and is as unappealing as a bowl of cold sick.

 

If we change and bring someone else in, anyone, then it’s an unknown and could at least have a chance of being a success.

 

The options aren’t great or obvious but to think that there’s nobody out of work who would come to manage Sheffield Wednesday and have a chance of making it a success is just silly. Nobody had heard of Carlos and he got us to the play offs twice in a row

[Belfast Owl 2]

16 minutes ago, soldierboyblue said:

I’d stop looking at the manager for the manner of these defeats and point the finger of blame at the payers who blatantly didn’t give a throw 

 

His team selections are inconsistent and erratic. He hasnt figured out his tactics so players dont have instruction. He never has a plan to see out a game which transfers to the players.He has clearly fallen out with players and throwing them under the bus approach failed. Look at what a proper manager in Bruce got out of them. He is beyond the point of return and will only take us down

[beswetherick]

2 minutes ago, soldierboyblue said:

I’d stop looking at the manager for the manner of these defeats and point the finger of blame at the payers who blatantly didn’t give a throw 

 

Weird how that same group of players gave a tóss when Bruce (and even Bullen) was in charge. If Monk can’t manage footballers then he should have a serious think about whether football management is for him

[Guest LondonOwl313]

2 hours ago, prowl said:

I know where you are coming from but you can't blame Monk for it, he'd not been here a year, DC has only been here for 5 years. The malaise goes back a long way. DC and Monk are only the latest in a long line of people who didn't sort the problems.

 

We've had high points in those 47 years, we didn't capitalise on them. Mistakes have been made.

 

There are only a few consistently high achieving clubs in the country, Man U , Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea. etc. I remember all of those having bad patches at times. Man City were nowhere not that many years ago. Why those clubs have consistently succeeded in remaining reasonably successful would be an interesting study. It can't just be a large and fanatical fan baseor Newcastle would be up there.

In short i think it’s money makes them successful. It’s always been that way, except pre premier league revenue was heavily focused on non broadcast revenues. Large fanbases helped.. but even Man Utd and Liverpool were relegated and played in the second tier every so often.

 

Since the Premier League days and the expansion of the champions league the competitive advantage has become more entrenched. The revenues of the top 6 are way higher than the rest. I’d imagine you’d need to get in the top 4 for many seasons consecutively to break into that bracket. Leicester might do it.. Newcastle could do it under new owners.

 

The only reason Chelsea and Man City are in that group and not Wednesday, Leeds, Newcastle, Everton, Sunderland etc is because they got owners pumping in hundreds of millions until they got to the required level and could then be self sustaining 

[83owl]

18 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

I don’t get the posts that say well we can’t think of anyone better so let’s stick with the guy who isn’t delivering.

 

If we stick with Monk then we will get more of the same... poor performances, overly defensive tactics, poor substitutions and falling out with players who don’t stroke his ego, plus contract extensions for players playing about 3 leagues above their level. That’s a known quantity and is as unappealing as a bowl of cold sick.

 

If we change and bring someone else in, anyone, then it’s an unknown and could at least have a chance of being a success.

 

The options aren’t great or obvious but to think that there’s nobody out of work who would come to manage Sheffield Wednesday and have a chance of making it a success is just silly. Nobody had heard of Carlos and he got us to the play offs twice in a row

Carlos managed us on the back of our highest wage budget we have had for years and following the most expenditure we have seen at the club. The aim for Carlos was promotion which wasn’t achieved. 
 

The aim for Monk or any other manager coming in now is to consolidate the club and reduce the wage bill to help comply with ffp. You can’t compare the manager now to the Carlos years on league position as the club is in a completely different state.

[83owl]

14 minutes ago, Belfast Owl 2 said:

 

His team selections are inconsistent and erratic. He hasnt figured out his tactics so players dont have instruction. He never has a plan to see out a game which transfers to the players.He has clearly fallen out with players and throwing them under the bus approach failed. Look at what a proper manager in Bruce got out of them. He is beyond the point of return and will only take us down

Bruce took us from 14th to 12th. Monk in fact had a better start to his time here than Bruce.
 

Bruce himself said this squad needs multiple windows to get sorted out, I don’t see any reason why the players wouldn’t have reacted the same to him given the same time frame given that he indicated that he wanted to move a lot of them out. 

[Mr Farrell]

38 minutes ago, soldierboyblue said:

I’d stop looking at the manager for the manner of these defeats and point the finger of blame at the payers who blatantly didn’t give a throw 

 

Nailed it.

[Mr Farrell]

1 minute ago, 83owl said:

Bruce took us from 14th to 12th. Monk in fact had a better start to his time here than Bruce.
 

Bruce himself said this squad needs multiple windows to get sorted out, I don’t see any reason why the players wouldn’t have reacted the same to him given the same time frame given that he indicated that he wanted to move a lot of them out. 

 

Spot on.

 

Squad full of overpaid failures with way too much influence.

[Belfast Owl 2]

Just now, 83owl said:

Bruce took us from 14th to 12th. Monk in fact had a better start to his time here than Bruce.
 

Bruce himself said this squad needs multiple windows to get sorted out, I don’t see any reason why the players wouldn’t have reacted the same to him given the same time frame given that he indicated that he wanted to move a lot of them out. 

 

Can you compare a run or even a performance under Bruce similar to anything since 23rd December

 

Did he fall out or chuck players under bus. Or did he have man management skill

 

Bruce was starting a job to turn us round. Monk is reversing that.

 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

2 minutes ago, 83owl said:

Carlos managed us on the back of our highest wage budget we have had for years and following the most expenditure we have seen at the club. The aim for Carlos was promotion which wasn’t achieved. 
 

The aim for Monk or any other manager coming in now is to consolidate the club and reduce the wage bill to help comply with ffp. You can’t compare the manager now to the Carlos years on league position as the club is in a completely different state.

The wage bill under Carlos was still only the 8th highest in the league I think.. so I’d argue par for the course was to be competitive towards promotion which we were. It’s unfortunate we couldn’t get over the line but we didn’t spend at a level which would have made it extremely likely like a Newcastle or a Wolves.

 

Also pretty sure that we must already be under the FFP limit this season now after the sale of Joao, Bruce compensation and the loss of Hooper, Abdi, Jones, Matias, Pudil etc off the wage bill. And we’re about to lose even more of the high earners. It’s a fresh start really and we need someone better than Monk in to manage the transition 

[Guest wilyfox]

1 minute ago, Belfast Owl 2 said:

 

Can you compare a run or even a performance under Bruce similar to anything since 23rd December

 

Did he fall out or chuck players under bus. Or did he have man management skill

 

Bruce was starting a job to turn us round. Monk is reversing that.

 

 

Bruce wasn't here long enough to fall out with anybody, except maybe the chairman.

 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

4 minutes ago, 83owl said:

Bruce took us from 14th to 12th. Monk in fact had a better start to his time here than Bruce.
 

Bruce himself said this squad needs multiple windows to get sorted out, I don’t see any reason why the players wouldn’t have reacted the same to him given the same time frame given that he indicated that he wanted to move a lot of them out. 

Bruce had us competitive in every game and we won 7, drew 7 and lost 4 under him. We didn’t roll over in any of the games. We actually looked a pretty decent side which just lacked a bit of a killer instinct to convert some of the draws. Should have also beat Villa and Norwich really on the day. But you could see what we were trying to do and it felt like we were building towards something 

 

Monk has been the complete opposite with too many terrible performances to list.

[Guest wilyfox]

1 minute ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Bruce had us competitive in every game and we won 7, drew 7 and lost 4 under him. We didn’t roll over in any of the games. We actually looked a pretty decent side which just lacked a bit of a killer instinct to convert some of the draws. Should have also beat Villa and Norwich really on the day. But you could see what we were trying to do and it felt like we were building towards something 

 

Monk has been the complete opposite with too many terrible performances to list.

 

So what? The players behaved themselves for 3 months. Big deal. They did for Monk too, and Luhukay. Keep blaming Monk if you wish, but this squad have been too comfortable and too complacent for some time. They pick'n choose whom they perform for, and switch off whenever it suits. 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, 83owl said:

Carlos managed us on the back of our highest wage budget we have had for years and following the most expenditure we have seen at the club. The aim for Carlos was promotion which wasn’t achieved. 
 

The aim for Monk or any other manager coming in now is to consolidate the club and reduce the wage bill to help comply with ffp. You can’t compare the manager now to the Carlos years on league position as the club is in a completely different state.

 

As below, the aim for Carlos was promotion but we weren't as well budgeted for promotion as others in the division. The aim for Monk is still to get results when reducing the wage bill and use the squad that he has available to him. Performances have been abysmal for some time and results have been even worse. 

 

3 hours ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

The problem with saying sack him now is that we do not know which division we will e in next season or if we will start it on minus points. Difficult to persuade the type of manager we want with that hanging over us.

 

 

Carlos had two good seasons and lost interest when his head was turned due to prior interest from a Premier League team - he lost his interest and focus and didn't want to miss his PL chance.

 

Bullen's 2nd spell was won 3, lost 3 however, most people acknowledge that the main problem with him is he has no managerial experience and when you have been a coach at a club for so long the relationship when being a manager is totally different.

 

Jos was rubbish and continues to be rubbish in his current job.

 

Monk has achieved nothing in management and I expect him to achieve the same here.

 

Yes we need a clear out of players but the current squad is far different to the ones where players were highlighted as the problem under previous managers. This season regular starters have included Dawson, Palmer, Fox, Iorfa, Borner, Harris, Murphy, Fletcher, Bannan - many of those weren't here or involved regularly under previous managers - which of them would you describe as bad influences? 

 

Monk blames the players regularly - he brings in 3 players in January and none can get a regular start or have a real positive impact. He plays Forestieri as a wing-back. We play a negative style and have scored twice in the first half at home under him. 

He had a summer to build his own side at Middlesbrough - spent millions and was sacked before Christmas. 

 

Show me a few positive signs and any career track record that he is the right man to take us forward. 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Thought this thread was about Monk, I was merely referencing Carlos in reply to another post to highlight how what we are getting with Monk now is different from under his management.

 

I'll answer your question though, yes he ultimately failed in his aim, but we finished 6th and 4th under him. As you point out, he had the luxury of spending more than anyone else for us but in comparison with the rest of the division, our budget was outside the top 6 in both of those seasons. 

 

Back to Monk though, which is what the majority of my post, and this thread is about.......

 

 

9 minutes ago, 83owl said:

Bruce took us from 14th to 12th. Monk in fact had a better start to his time here than Bruce.
 

Bruce himself said this squad needs multiple windows to get sorted out, I don’t see any reason why the players wouldn’t have reacted the same to him given the same time frame given that he indicated that he wanted to move a lot of them out. 

 

Bruce may have only improved the league position by two places but if you saw the performances there were clear signs of what he was doing and positive improvement - we were very good at Norwich against the Champions late on in the season.

He also appeared to have a unified squad all pulling in the same direction.

 

None of the above is apparent under Monk, yes he made a good start - he made a good start in most of his previous management jobs but didn't last very long in any of them. Only Hull are in worse form than us in the second half of the season and we are behind the 3rd worst by some distance.  

 

 

 

[WalthamOwl]

I definitely blame these waste of space players more than I do Monk however Monk hasn’t been doing himself any favours with his selections and tactics and giving that waste of space Pelupessy a new deal. He probably deserves a little more time even though I’m not sure it’s the right thing to do. He needs to start picking up results as soon as the season resumes and hope to God we are still a championship side next season with or without a point deduction. 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Mr Farrell said:

 

Spot on.

 

Squad full of overpaid failures with way too much influence.

 

Most appearances this season - 

 

Harris, Bannan, Borner, Iorfa, Murphy, Nuhiu, Reach, Fox, Fletcher, Palmer, Dawson.

 

Half of them aren't carrying and baggage of previous failure with us and two of the others are widely regarded as our best performers this season. 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

6 minutes ago, wilyfox said:

 

So what? The players behaved themselves for 3 months. Big deal. They did for Monk too, and Luhukay. Keep blaming Monk if you wish, but this squad have been too comfortable and too complacent for some time. They pick'n choose whom they perform for, and switch off whenever it suits. 

Posts like this are absolute nonsense, I’m sorry. The regular starting 11 now isn’t even the same as it was under prior managers. Only Bannan, Fletcher and Lees from the 2016-17 side are still regular starters yet people make out that it’s our longest serving players who are the problem. Bannan and Fletcher are probably our two best players still.

 

Luhahky was garbage the whole time, think he won only 1 of his first 10 games. Bruce kept it simple and played his best team and we were on top in most games. Monk comes in and picks his best team but with negative tactics and we somehow scraped our way to third by Xmas. Then he decides to give two key players the boot and ostracise even more by telling them they have no future when there’s still 20 odd games to go and guess what we win only 2 from 14.

 

People seem to want to blame our better players for not performing while accepting the garbage produced by Dawson, Palmer, Lees, Harris, Pelupessy, Nuhui, Murphy (for a large chunk of games), Lee, Rhodes or Winnall etc.

 

So we release Westwood, Hutchinson, Forestieri etc and the whole thing will be sorted will it? Unbelievable. If the team is still made up of the league 1 (and below in some cases) players we currently have starting most games then we’ll continue to get league 1 performances and we’ll eventually end up in League 1. Monk is complicit in this because he keeps picking them and has just renewed the contract of one of them. Needs to leave ASAP

[Guest LondonOwl313]

17 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Most appearances this season - 

 

Harris, Bannan, Borner, Iorfa, Murphy, Nuhiu, Reach, Fox, Fletcher, Palmer, Dawson.

 

Half of them aren't carrying and baggage of previous failure with us and two of the others are widely regarded as our best performers this season. 

What you’ve listed there is clearly the core group of players. If all of those continue to be in the starting 11 then it will continue as it is and nothing will change. It’s also not realistic to bin them all off. Personally I’d keep Bannan, Iorfa, Reach and Fletcher as regular starters. Relegate Harris, Borner and Fox to squad options. Send Murphy back and get shut of Dawson and Palmer because they aren’t good enough if we’re going to go for promotion. Controversial I know because they support us but it’s the reality