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Are you a fan of Big Ron Atkinson?

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45 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

Not fit to lace Big Jack’s boots - especially when it comes to integrity. 

I understand the integrity sentiment BUT

one got us Promoted from the 3rd Division and nearly got us Promoted to the 1St Division but couldn't quite get us over the line (we blew it in 82 I think or 83 not sure) got us to a FA Cup Semi Final but again couldn't quite get us over the line (we should have Beaten a poor Brighton side). Whilst playing decent football.

He did leave us in a much better state than when he arrived and left the Foundations for Wilko to get us Promoted but by his own admission had got us as far as he could.

 

The other got us Promoted to the 1st Division and Won the League Cup, left a fantastic side that got to 2 more Cup Finals and gained European Football (and which imo under him would have been even better and possibly won more trophies) and played the best football I've ever or im ever likely to see Wednesday Play.

In terms of purely Management ability Ron is not only fit to lace Big Jack's boots, but surpasses him (especially in terms of achievement whilst at Wednesday in a much shorter time span).

In terms of Footballing ability on the Pitch then yes you're right Ron wasn't fit to lace Jack's boots and he probably has more integrity.

But take nothing away from Ron as a manager he was fantastic and also had so much Charisma, I met him at the Rumbelows Cup 25th Anniversary Celebrations and he's a very funny, friendly top bloke.

You're still entitled to your opinion, but in terms of Managerial ability I'm sure everyone on here would think you're wrong. UTO!

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, OWL1969 said:

I understand the integrity sentiment BUT

one got us Promoted from the 3rd Division and nearly got us Promoted to the 1St Division but couldn't quite get us over the line (we blew it in 82 I think or 83 not sure) got us to a FA Cup Semi Final but again couldn't quite get us over the line (we should have Beaten a poor Brighton side). Whilst playing decent football.

He did leave us in a much better state than when he arrived and left the Foundations for Wilko to get us Promoted but by his own admission had got us as far as he could.

 

The other got us Promoted to the 1st Division and Won the League Cup, left a fantastic side that got to 2 more Cup Finals and gained European Football (and which imo under him would have been even better and possibly won more trophies) and played the best football I've ever or im ever likely to see Wednesday Play.

In terms of purely Management ability Ron is not only fit to lace Big Jack's boots, but surpasses him (especially in terms of achievement whilst at Wednesday in a much shorter time span).

In terms of Footballing ability on the Pitch then yes you're right Ron wasn't fit to lace Jack's boots and he probably has more integrity.

But take nothing away from Ron as a manager he was fantastic and also had so much Charisma, I met him at the Rumbelows Cup 25th Anniversary Celebrations and he's a very funny, friendly top bloke.

You're still entitled to your opinion, but in terms of Managerial ability I'm sure everyone on here would think you're wrong. UTO!

 

 

 

 

You forgot got us relegated which is why we needed to get promoted in the first place and starting from a much, much better position with more resources than Jack had.

 

My statement was a bit OTT I acknowledge  He did win a Cup for us and that team played sublime football - although in a normal season we would have been in the play offs and we know how dicey they can be and the side that got us to 2 cup finals included vital additions that were nothing to with Joodas - Woods, Warhurst, Waddle, Bright.

 

To be honest my main objections to him aren't on his ability as a manager anyway - although I still believe Jack was a superior manager. More importantIy I believe he was also a far superior man.

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

 

You forgot got us relegated which is why we needed to get promoted in the first place and starting from a much, much better position with more resources than Jack had.

 

My statement was a bit OTT I acknowledge  He did win a Cup for us and that team played sublime football - although in a normal season we would have been in the play offs and we know how dicey they can be and the side that got us to 2 cup finals included vital additions that were nothing to with Joodas - Woods, Warhurst, Waddle, Bright.

 

To be honest my main objections to him aren't on his ability as a manager anyway - although I still believe Jack was a superior manager. More importantIy I believe he was also a far superior man.

Tbf I agree with most of what you say, But I think had Ron stayed he would have added more quality to the Team.

He had only just started building here, it was obvious from his previous signings he had a great eye for talent (or great scouting system) there's no way he would have been happy knowing that team wasn't quite good enough to compete at the very top table, he would have made his own additions which with his previous record I'm certain would have been quality players. 

You have to remember we'd just regained our top flight status but had also just won a major trophy and with a manager who would have been able to attract the top players to SWFC, never have our Club been more attractive to players as shown with the signings that Francis got off the back of Ron's success.

 

Just to reiterate I loved both Jack and Wilko as managers but imo Ron was better. 

As people and certainly regarding loyalty he would lag well behind them, I hated him for a while but time heals (for me anyway) I'm willing to forgive him for wanting to go to his boyhood club (and another huge sleeping giant where he won more trophies).

 

I'm sure he still has feelings for SWFC and leaving us was a genuine hard decision at the time and something he still possibly regrets doing but he had to make that decision for himself.

Hypothetically if I was a successful at say Derby (and loved by their Fans) and suddenly my club SWFC (and a slightly bigger club traditionally) came calling I know for a fact it'd be difficult but I'd end up at my Club and my football "home" Hillsborough. 

 

Edited by OWL1969
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1 hour ago, OWL1969 said:

Tbf I agree with most of what you say, But I think had Ron stayed he would have added more quality to the Team.

He had only just started building here, it was obvious from his previous signings he had a great eye for talent (or great scouting system) there's no way he would have been happy knowing that team wasn't quite good enough to compete at the very top table, he would have made his own additions which with his previous record I'm certain would have been quality players. 

You have to remember we'd just regained our top flight status but had also just won a major trophy and with a manager who would have been able to attract the top players to SWFC, never have our Club been more attractive to players as shown with the signings that Francis got off the back of Ron's success.

 

Just to reiterate I loved both Jack and Wilko as managers but imo Ron was better. 

As people and certainly regarding loyalty he would lag well behind them, I hated him for a while but time heals (for me anyway) I'm willing to forgive him for wanting to go to his boyhood club (and another huge sleeping giant where he won more trophies).

 

I'm sure he still has feelings for SWFC and leaving us was a genuine hard decision at the time and something he still possibly regrets doing but he had to make that decision for himself.

Hypothetically if I was a successful at say Derby (and loved by their Fans) and suddenly my club SWFC (and a slightly bigger club traditionally) came calling I know for a fact it'd be difficult but I'd end up at my Club and my football "home" Hillsborough. 

 

You wouldn’t have called Desailly that though in a commentary box. 

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Best Manager I’ve ever seen at Hillsborough and ever likely to see.

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3 hours ago, rickygoo said:

 

You forgot got us relegated which is why we needed to get promoted in the first place and starting from a much, much better position with more resources than Jack had.

 

My statement was a bit OTT I acknowledge  He did win a Cup for us and that team played sublime football - although in a normal season we would have been in the play offs and we know how dicey they can be and the side that got us to 2 cup finals included vital additions that were nothing to with Joodas - Woods, Warhurst, Waddle, Bright.

 

To be honest my main objections to him aren't on his ability as a manager anyway - although I still believe Jack was a superior manager. More importantIy I believe he was also a far superior man.

I mean, I’m assuming don’t know either of them personally. So I don’t know how you can make a statement like that based solely on their public profile and career moves. 

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1 hour ago, rickygoo said:

You wouldn’t have called Desailly that though in a commentary box. 

It wasn’t in the commentary box. It was off air when he thought no one was recording. It’s an awful thing to say, but there is nothing in Ron’s career to suggest he’s racist. Carlton Palmer absolutely worships him. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, owls maniac said:

It wasn’t in the commentary box. It was off air when he thought no one was recording. It’s an awful thing to say, but there is nothing in Ron’s career to suggest he’s racist. Carlton Palmer absolutely worships him. 

It was strange for it to come from him, especially as you say considering his career.

I believe the WBA  lads were also fond of him, the likes of Regis, Cunningham and Moses.

I'm pretty certain he was amongst the first group of managers to play the Black lads, that's probably another reason why it was such a shock to hear it from him.

I don't believe he's racist, it was a very stupid thing to say whether it was on air on not, but I really think he didn't mean it and used the "N" word without thinking, it was used very often in the 70s and 80s whilst he was involved in football and I believe he just said it unwittingly.

 

It doesn't defend the use of it and certainly doesn't condone it, but you used to hear it and much worse every Match in the 70s and 80s.

He said it and got caught and rightly lost his job for it, he's taken the flak and the punishment and I believe it's his biggest regret in life (yes even bigger than walking out on the Mighty Owls).

Edited by OWL1969

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I think Jack Charlton was a very good manager but would say Atkinson was a better one.

Atkinson deserved to lose his job on ITV for his comments on Desailly but dont believe he should be vilified for rest of his life for 1 mistake.

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1 minute ago, matthefish2002 said:

I think Jack Charlton was a very good manager but would say Atkinson was a better one.

Atkinson deserved to lose his job on ITV for his comments on Desailly but dont believe he should be vilified for rest of his life for 1 mistake.

 

And baring in mind that he probably promoted black players careers more than anyone else at the time.   

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2 hours ago, owls maniac said:

I mean, I’m assuming don’t know either of them personally. So I don’t know how you can make a statement like that based solely on their public profile and career moves. 

I met Big Jack very impressive figure. As far as Wednesday managers go I’ve also met Wilkinson, Tricky, Pleat and Wilson. Never meet your heroes they say - but in his case that doesn’t apply. Has an aura the others didn’t have.

 

Never met Judas. Don’t want to either. 

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3 minutes ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

And baring in mind that he probably promoted black players careers more than anyone else at the time.   

Promoting good players to help your team and career and gobbing  off with racist comments when you think nobody is listening aren’t mutually exclusive. 

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Just now, rickygoo said:

Promoting good players to help your team and career and gobbing  off with racist comments when you think nobody is listening aren’t mutually exclusive. 

 

 No but to brand him an out and out racist is taking it to far.  If he was really racist he wouldn't have had anything to do with black players.

 

Just like everyone he's flawed.

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3 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

Apparently he feels he’s guilty of over-apologising. Sorry if I don’t feel one iota of sympathy for him. 

 

https://www.wsc.co.uk/the-archive/104-Race/1710-ron-and-ron-again

 

I can understand that, he's of a generation when been more forthright was nothing out of the ordinary which is no excuse but explains it to some degree. 

 

I hope he's the worse "racist" we come across but we both know that it is still endemic in our society and on a scale, I would suggest that he's at the lower end.   

 

I would say that his deeds outweigh his words.

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9 minutes ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

 No but to brand him an out and out racist is taking it to far.  If he was really racist he wouldn't have had anything to do with black players.

 

Just like everyone he's flawed.

Like all of us I loathe the racism but it could at a push be excused as generational. I know CP likes him - he has a particular view of racism in football. He said he wasn’t bothered if someone called him a black poopydoo. All part of winding people up. CP is perfectly entitled to that view and I’m perfectly entitled to disagree just like many people do.

 

Overall I just don’t buy into all that Bojangles nonsense. I’m happy for others to however. 

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Just now, rickygoo said:

Like all of us I loathe the racism but it could at a push be excused as generational. I know CP likes him - he has a particular view of racism in football. He said he wasn’t bothered if someone called him a black poopydoo. All part of winding people up. CP is perfectly entitled to that view and I’m perfectly entitled to disagree just like many people do.

 

Overall I just don’t buy into all that Bojangles nonsense. I’m happy for others to however. 

 

We are not a million miles away from each other 

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44 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

Promoting good players to help your team and career and gobbing  off with racist comments when you think nobody is listening aren’t mutually exclusive. 

If you listen to the recent Owls sanctuary  podcast episode with Carlton Palmer it’s very clear they have a strong personal friendship that goes beyond career progression. Has anyone else come forward to say Ron is a racist? 
 

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48 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

I met Big Jack very impressive figure. As far as Wednesday managers go I’ve also met Wilkinson, Tricky, Pleat and Wilson. Never meet your heroes they say - but in his case that doesn’t apply. Has an aura the others didn’t have.

 

Never met Judas. Don’t want to either. 

Very bizarre to hold a 30 year grudge over football.  
 

Ive attended multiple sportsman’s dinners with him and he comes across a top bloke with some fantastic stories. Can easily see why players Would run through brick walls for him. 

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4 minutes ago, owls maniac said:

Very bizarre to hold a 30 year grudge over football.  
 

Ive attended multiple sportsman’s dinners with him and he comes across a top bloke with some fantastic stories. Can easily see why players Would run through brick walls for him. 

I think football is a perfect reason to hold a grudge! 

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