Massimo Luongo

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Dronfield_SWFC said:

I think the break will have suited him and he will be a key player for the rest of the season

 

He's probably still injured from the little niggle that wasn't expected to keep him out for long back in January! 

[trev]

1 hour ago, oldishowl said:

We have lots of issues in midfield, the main one being that we have not had a consistent way of playing since the days of Carlos.

 

Players won’t perform consistently if they are asked to play a different role every week while the opposition have a regular system and players are good at their job because they do it every game.

When the pressure comes on this makes the difference.

 

When we had Wallace, Lee , Hutch, Bannan they knew their job because they had the same one every week.
 

Since then it’s been chop change every week. Generally, because we don’t have settled way of playing our set up changes depending on the opposition.

Impossible to be successful doing this .

 

I don’t blame the managers for this. Because I don’t think the players are there .

 

Look at Bannan. He has gone from playing triangles with those above plus Hooper to his only out ball being a lob over the top for Fletcher. No wonder he struggles sometimes.

Agree 1000%

 

Pick a system and style of play and recruit players to fit that system.

 

Stick to it.

 

Drill it into them. Day after day. Until it becomes second nature.

 

That's how u become a successful team. It's basics that all teams follow to be a success.

 

We don't have a plan or a style or a system.

 

We are crap.

[pazowl55]

1 hour ago, trev said:

Agree 1000%

 

Pick a system and style of play and recruit players to fit that system.

 

Stick to it.

 

Drill it into them. Day after day. Until it becomes second nature.

 

That's how u become a successful team. It's basics that all teams follow to be a success.

 

We don't have a plan or a style or a system.

 

We are crap.

Unfortunately this is what the blades did a few years back and it now has them in touching distance of the champions league.

[gurujuan]

2 hours ago, trev said:

Agree 1000%

 

Pick a system and style of play and recruit players to fit that system.

 

Stick to it.

 

Drill it into them. Day after day. Until it becomes second nature.

 

That's how u become a successful team. It's basics that all teams follow to be a success.

 

We don't have a plan or a style or a system.

 

We are crap.

Cannot for the life of me see why we have to do this. We’d settled into a system that the players were comfortable with, and was working. When Bruce left, Bullen picked up the same way of playing and continued into this season. For a while, it’s the system Monk used, but then he started switching to various other systems, and we lost continuity. I’m not adverse to perhaps altering the tactics as a one off to combat a particular opponent, but not changing every flipping week. It’s obvious Bannan isn’t as effective in a midfield two, as he is in a three. In fact there’s little evidence that any of the other departments flourish when we operate with a two.

Edited May 28, 2020 by gurujuan

[oldishowl]

7 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Cannot for the life of me see why we have to do this. We’d settled into a system that the players were comfortable with, and was working. When Bruce left, Bullen picked up the same way of playing and continued into this season. For a while, it’s the system Monk used, but then he started switching to various other systems, and we lost continuity. I’m not adverse to perhaps altering the tactics as a one off to combat a particular opponent, but not changing every flipping week. It’s obvious Bannan isn’t as effective in a midfield two, as he is in a three. In fact there’s little evidence that any of the other departments flourish when we operate with a two.

 

Which system is this then.

Jos changed every week

Bruce played both 433 and 442 with a FF as a second striker

Monk sets up to try and stop and exploit the opposition and sometimes it works, Leeds away was a great example

 

[gurujuan]

5 minutes ago, oldishowl said:

 

Which system is this then.

Jos changed every week

Bruce played both 433 and 442 with a FF as a second striker

Monk sets up to try and stop and exploit the opposition and sometimes it works, Leeds away was a great example

 

4-3-3 if we plan to use Bannan

[oldishowl]

13 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

4-3-3 if we plan to use Bannan

 

Yes a lot of us would like to see us play that and stick with it.

Which is what the poster was asking for , stick with a system.

But no manager has done that since Carlos.

As I say Bruce sometimes  used FF as a second striker, with Hutch and Bannan as a two.

The reason we have not stuck with it is because we are not good enough at it to win consistently so all managers have tinkered to , in their view, give us a better chance of getting the points. Somebody needs to be given the time to bring in players to improve us so we can play the system we choose and impose ours style on other teams rather than reacting to what they play.

Of course it has to be the right manager.

[gurujuan]

8 minutes ago, oldishowl said:

 

Yes a lot of us would like to see us play that and stick with it.

Which is what the poster was asking for , stick with a system.

But no manager has done that since Carlos.

As I say Bruce sometimes  used FF as a second striker, with Hutch and Bannan as a two.

The reason we have not stuck with it is because we are not good enough at it to win consistently so all managers have tinkered to , in their view, give us a better chance of getting the points. Somebody needs to be given the time to bring in players to improve us so we can play the system we choose and impose ours style on other teams rather than reacting to what they play.

Of course it has to be the right manager.

Yes I agree with that. As I said, I’m not adverse to making tactical adjustments on a one off basis, to combat a particular opponent For instance, when Monk saw a vulnerability in the Boro back line when confronted by an aerial bombardment Selecting Nuhiu as a partner for Fletcher in a 4-4-2 was a shrewd move for that particular game, but not something I’d want us to persist with 

With reference to Bruce, he also used a nominal 4-4-2 system on occasions, though in most of those games, Reach was operating as an auxiliary midfielder. As I mentioned, playing Bannan, for me, necessitates us playing three in the centre

[Strings]

I would like to see him used further forward, if he gets a run of games and gets some form I think he could be very useful indeed.

[Bakewell Owl]

On 27/05/2020 at 16:53, gurujuan said:

One of the reasons I started this thread, and the Reach one, is because I was wondering if people saw them as integral pieces of the team, if fit of course

Bannan (and I am a big supporter) for some reason dosnt go forward as much as he should, its almost as if he worries about what is happening behind him if hes not there, so play Massimo along side him and let him be the one to probe forward

[oldishowl]

5 hours ago, Bakewell Owl said:

Bannan (and I am a big supporter) for some reason dosnt go forward as much as he should, its almost as if he worries about what is happening behind him if hes not there, so play Massimo along side him and let him be the one to probe forward

I could talk tactics all day.

The conundrum of where to play Bannan is a great one.

Away at Leeds we played a strict 433 same as them.

Bannan sat deep but didn’t mark anybody and they didn’t have anybody in that space.

 

Phillips was their defensive midfielder and we just left him.

Meanwhile Lee and Luongo matched up with their other two midfielders and ran all day.
 

So we had Bannan sitting and trying to pull the strings and they had Phillips doing the same , Monk obviously thought that was a good situation for us.

 

After about 70 mins they brought Hernandez on as a number 10.

Monk immediately brought Joey on as a defensive midfielder and moved Bannan further forward because he knows Bannan doesn’t mark or tackle.

 

Great tactics from Monk and we won the game.

 

Move forward 7 days , Blackburn at home.

We play same team after a great win at Leeds. 
Blackburn had watched us, push somebody on Bannan and we are a shambles because he struggles physically when marked.

Luongo gets sent off by the looney Aussie ref and we collapse.

 

How do you continually get the best out of Bannan with his physical limitations is the issue.

[gurujuan]

5 minutes ago, oldishowl said:

I could talk tactics all day.

The conundrum of where to play Bannan is a great one.

Away at Leeds we played a strict 433 same as them.

Bannan sat deep but didn’t mark anybody and they didn’t have anybody in that space.

 

Phillips was their defensive midfielder and we just left him.

Meanwhile Lee and Luongo matched up with their other two midfielders and ran all day.
 

So we had Bannan sitting and trying to pull the strings and they had Phillips doing the same , Monk obviously thought that was a good situation for us.

 

After about 70 mins they brought Hernandez on as a number 10.

Monk immediately brought Joey on as a defensive midfielder and moved Bannan further forward because he knows Bannan doesn’t mark or tackle.

 

Great tactics from Monk and we won the game.

 

Move forward 7 days , Blackburn at home.

We play same team after a great win at Leeds. 
Blackburn had watched us, push somebody on Bannan and we are a shambles because he struggles physically when marked.

Luongo gets sent off by the looney Aussie ref and we collapse.

 

How do you continually get the best out of Bannan with his physical limitations is the issue.

I prefer on the left of a three, where Carlos played him. Not a fan of playing two wingers, as I can’t see that it makes us any more potent, and often leaves us overwhelmed in midfield.

[torryowl]

for me the trick is to get a squad that the manager wants not inherited from 6 different managers ……..never happen coz they'll never get the time  to build one .

[Tommy Crawshaw]

47 minutes ago, torryowl said:

for me the trick is to get a squad that the manager wants not inherited from 6 different managers ……..never happen coz they'll never get the time  to build one .

 

The thing is no manager of any club will ever have an entire squad consisting of players that only they brought in, unless they're at the club for about 10 years.

[torryowl]

Just now, Tommy Crawshaw said:

 

The thing is no manager of any club will ever have an entire squad consisting of players that only they brought in, unless they're at the club for about 10 years.

no they wont and they'll want to keep some they inherit but to build a squad he wants then he needs at least 3~5 windows …...I don't know the blunts squad but i'd guess wilder kept what he wanted from whoever was the manager before him got rid of the dross and  got his own signings in to blend in with those he kept . .it doesn't take 10 years 3 should be ample .

[gurujuan]

2 minutes ago, torryowl said:

no they wont and they'll want to keep some they inherit but to build a squad he wants then he needs at least 3~5 windows …...I don't know the blunts squad but i'd guess wilder kept what he wanted from whoever was the manager before him got rid of the dross and  got his own signings in to blend in with those he kept . .it doesn't take 10 years 3 should be ample .

About right, although Carlos did in one. There are some players here, and any half decent manager would not be struggling like this

[torryowl]

Just now, gurujuan said:

About right, although Carlos did in one. There are some players here, and any half decent manager would not be struggling like this

that's a matter of opinion …...the goalkeeper was a disaster and his replacement is struggling ,we havnt a decent right back , tom lees as fallen apart ,lee hasn't regained his spark and is yesterdays man  , luongo cant stay fit ,joey aint good enough reach hasn't fired as he can  , murphy and harris are hit or miss …...we have none scoring strikers apart from fletch whos been out injured and they were none scoring under the previous managers so you cant really pin that on monk . ….we all know it needs a clear out .whether monks the man I don't know but whoever it is needs time sadly unless he hits the ground running with a very limited budget he wont get the time . 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, torryowl said:

that's a matter of opinion …...the goalkeeper was a disaster and his replacement is struggling ,we havnt a decent right back , tom lees as fallen apart ,lee hasn't regained his spark and is yesterdays man  , luongo cant stay fit ,joey aint good enough reach hasn't fired as he can  , murphy and harris are hit or miss …...we have none scoring strikers apart from fletch whos been out injured and they were none scoring under the previous managers so you cant really pin that on monk . ….we all know it needs a clear out .whether monks the man I don't know but whoever it is needs time sadly unless he hits the ground running with a very limited budget he wont get the time . 

 

Palmer played a fair amount of games in the two good seasons under Carlos, Nuhiu was also effective in his team despite not being prolific. Forestieri is a potential asset that could be utilised better than being chosen at wing-back! 

Westwood was in poor form but it wasn't as if we were conceding 3 or 5 in games and losing by half-time as we have been this year. 

 

We do need to let many of the out of contract players move on and freshen things up with 6-9 new faces but I don't believe Monk is the right man to leave in charge of that as he has done little to convince me of any progress. 

[Tommy Crawshaw]

1 hour ago, gurujuan said:

About right, although Carlos did in one. There are some players here, and any half decent manager would not be struggling like this

 

I agree we have some good players and should be better than where we are in the table 

 

Carlos inherited Westwood, Lees, Hutch, Loovens, Lee, Helan,  McGugan, Semedo, Nuhiu, Palmer and others. The first 5 in that list were regular starters and key players under Carlos.

 

[Tommy Crawshaw]

17 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Palmer played a fair amount of games in the two good seasons under Carlos, Nuhiu was also effective in his team despite not being prolific. Forestieri is a potential asset that could be utilised better than being chosen at wing-back! 

Westwood was in poor form but it wasn't as if we were conceding 3 or 5 in games and losing by half-time as we have been this year. 

 

We do need to let many of the out of contract players move on and freshen things up with 6-9 new faces but I don't believe Monk is the right man to leave in charge of that as he has done little to convince me of any progress. 

 

Palmer was only ever back up to Hunt.

I think Carlos realised after that first season that he needed better than Nuhiu and brought Fletcher in to replace him.