Jim Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Animis said: I would certainly sympathise with Monk on the lack of managerial support - primarily the Beattie situation. However, he's the manager and you need to set the tone, and instill discipline. Monk would have witnessed the shenanigans of the senior players, namely Hutch and Westwood from September. I imagine he also would have heard or known about discipline issues at the club before he came - it was widely reported in the media during Jos' reign. However, we were also 3rd at Christmas, which is an unavoidable fact that puts the post Christmas shambles into more unanswered question - even Monk was at a loss to explain the weekly surrenders and big losses. Whether Monk is the right man only time will time, and there big structural issues at the club that need sorting prior to focusing on the manager. The lack of clarity on players' contracts and re-commencement of the season and new season dates is only mudding the waters further. Monk certainly hasn't got longevity at any club, but there does seem to be some mitigating circumstance to some of the circumstances. I hope whoever leads the team in the next year or so has all the tools in his box to do the job. Not many managers can succeed with one hand tied behind his back. I don't think it will be Monk who will lead us into next season but I'm expecting the gaffer to reply within 60 seconds to ask me why I think this and that I'm wrong? Edited May 24, 2020 by Great Big Galaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted May 24, 2020 Author Share Posted May 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, Great Big Galaa said: I don't think it will be Monk who will lead us into next season Ok.. I keep reading this and it baffles me. Tell me one thing that makes you think Chansiri will come out with the 'sack stick' and smash Monk over the head with it Because I just see this statement posted and to me it just sounds pie in the sky Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: Ok.. I keep reading this and it baffles me. Tell me one thing that makes you think Chansiri will come out with the 'sack stick' and smash Monk over the head with it Because I just see this statement posted and to me it just sounds pie in the sky It's simple. Monk is the on the Jos Lukuhay road to nowhere, well it is to somewhere actually. It's the place most football managers know, it's called 'The Sack' Look at the facts. Chansiri was as flat as a fart in an astronaut suit when he unveiled Monk. So far he's only been allowed one member of choice in his back room staff. All his signings in January were loans. Also his current run of results makes Lukuhay look like Klopp. Also there were rumours recently the ex-Rangers manager Caixhana was approached? Even that great local journalist Mr Biggs tweeted this past week that Monk's rolling contract might be as long as four months? This all hardly smacks of a manager who's going to be our Alex Ferguson, more likely our Peter Eustace? Edited May 24, 2020 by Great Big Galaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 9 minutes ago, Great Big Galaa said: I don't think it will be Monk who will lead us into next season but I'm expecting the gaffer to reply within 60 seconds to ask me why I think this and that I'm wrong? I would hope that Monk and DC have used the last 2 months or so to review the New Year to mid March overall performance and understand what was behind it. Of course it may be multi-dimensional but if both parties are honest then we can have a road map to a better place. If the suggestion that many of the players simply stopped caring because they were out-of-contract, is one of these reasons, then that's very concerning. Fletcher's absence was clearly a bigger miss than we all expected, but can't explain the shambles at the back and keeper positions, which lead to average teams simply walking through them. Monk didn't present himself or communicate very well during this period IMO. His post match waffling left more questions than answers and he looked beaten and lost. His subsequent personnel and tactical changes week in week out only lead to more concern and questions about what he was doing. The season ending when it did was probably a good thing but may prove to only be a temporary rest-bite. For what it's worth, I'm indifferent on Monk - the extremes of results from September - January, and then January - March don't add up, and maybe we should be somewhere in the middle? It's the inconsistency that is hard to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted May 24, 2020 Author Share Posted May 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, Great Big Galaa said: It's simple. Monk is the on the Jos Lukuhay road to nowhere, well it is to somewhere actually. It's the place most football managers know, it's called 'The Sack' Look at the facts. Chansiri was as flat as a fart in an astronaut suit when he unveiled Monk. So far he's only been allowed one member of choice in his back room staff. All his signings in January were loans. Also his current run of results makes Lukuhay look like Klopp. Also there were rumours recently the ex-Rangers manager Caixhana was approached? Even that great local journalist Mr Biggs tweeted this past week that Monk's rolling contract might be as long as four months? This all hardly smacks of a manager who's going to be our Alex Ferguson, more likely our Peter Eustace? But you're suggesting that in the next week or so Chansiri is suddenly gonna sack him. Quite simply this is NOT going to happen No chance. No way. No how. I'm honestly confused why anyone would sit and honestly believe that Chansiri is poised to sack his manager. I don't know what logic people apply to the scenario that would lead to this conclusion Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoop Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 (edited) I don’t think Monk is a liar. He can hardly come out and publicly start throwing players under the bus left right and centre can he Edited May 24, 2020 by Stoop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swfcjack27 Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 I reckon Loovens is a potential future Wednesday manager, his leadership skills are made for management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 2 hours ago, @owlstalk said: Can you imagine the crowd at Hillsborough if the young players don't do very well at first? Christ... Which managers are out there that can cope with THAT scenario? Of developing young players and toughening them up to play in front of our fans? This is a problem of the club's making though. The chairman say promotion is the target every season then charges top 4 prices. Then tell his manager you can only bring in free and loans and kids to achieve it, because of the mistakes over the last 4 years in recruitment we have no budget. Then make no attempt to move Rhodes, Westwood, Hutch, Fessi, Winnall off the wage bill instead we pay them to sit in the stands. If the chairman said this season was a rebuilding season and the prices were being lowered, to his lower level of investment the club have h ad for the last 2/3 seasons which in the whole has been frees and loans. Then the fans would give players more time with lower expectations. But the manager then doesn't help himself when players clearly struggling and out of form, play no matter what their performance. Then other players never get a chance. He is saying failure is accepted and certain players are untouchable no matter their level of performance. Relegation could be out of our hands of the EFL use us as an FFP example. but for me Monks not the right man to rebuild the club, bite the bullet and get Rowett in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miffed Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 The expectation from our supporters sky rocketed the day when United got promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 52 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: But you're suggesting that in the next week or so Chansiri is suddenly gonna sack him. Quite simply this is NOT going to happen No chance. No way. No how. I'm honestly confused why anyone would sit and honestly believe that Chansiri is poised to sack his manager. I don't know what logic people apply to the scenario that would lead to this conclusion I don’t expect him to be sacked before the season resumes if it does but IMO he won’t be our manager for our first game of next season. Let’s face it, it’s more than likely first game back he’ll select the same eleven that lost to Brentford 5-0 in our last game before the pandemic. There will be a meltdown on here and even behind closed doors there will be chants of Monk Out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatter Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Rather than being a liar, isn’t it more likely that he’s been brutally honest with most of the squad about the chances of new contracts. The agents of the out of contract brigade would be asking for clarity at the time of the January transfer window. It’s pretty obvious a few of them have been told exactly where they stand on that score. It would certainly explain the collapse in form of quite a few who’ve been overpaid by Championship standards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 27 minutes ago, room0035 said: This is a problem of the club's making though. The chairman say promotion is the target every season then charges top 4 prices. Then tell his manager you can only bring in free and loans and kids to achieve it, because of the mistakes over the last 4 years in recruitment we have no budget. Then make no attempt to move Rhodes, Westwood, Hutch, Fessi, Winnall off the wage bill instead we pay them to sit in the stands. If the chairman said this season was a rebuilding season and the prices were being lowered, to his lower level of investment the club have h ad for the last 2/3 seasons which in the whole has been frees and loans. Then the fans would give players more time with lower expectations. But the manager then doesn't help himself when players clearly struggling and out of form, play no matter what their performance. Then other players never get a chance. He is saying failure is accepted and certain players are untouchable no matter their level of performance. Relegation could be out of our hands of the EFL use us as an FFP example. but for me Monks not the right man to rebuild the club, bite the bullet and get Rowett in. I agree but I think DC would spend as much cash as he could, but is restricted because of FFP and his own lack of proper management of the transfers and management infrastructure. We can't repeat the mistakes of the last three years, and therefore something needs to change - strategy; personnel; fans' engagement/communication etc. I do hope that DC reflects on his performance in leadership and setting a sustainable model. It's all been too simplistic; crass; authoritarian and amateurish for it to be successful. We got the two play offs via money; grinding out results and having a selection of good but ageing players in the right place at the right time. It still wasn't enough and only lasted for 18 months. We needed to build on this but had no plan and just carried on; getting older; more unfit; more in debt and poorer performances resulted. There's little for DC to take from the last three seasons other than mounting debt; disgruntled players and fans; around a handful of players in contract and high-paid players sat in the stands. Monk has had to work within these constraints but has still has questions to answer as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 19 minutes ago, Miffed said: The expectation from our supporters sky rocketed the day when United got promoted. I think fans' could see the difference in the two models. Whilst United spent more than some try to make out, their financial exposure was clearly less than ours and they built a very good team over three seasons. Our model is old; failing and isn't clearly sustainable unless you go up at the peak of spending. United could probably afforded another two seasons at a promotion push if they hadn't gone up when they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Concrete Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 13 minutes ago, Animis said: I think fans' could see the difference in the two models. Whilst United spent more than some try to make out, their financial exposure was clearly less than ours and they built a very good team over three seasons. Our model is old; failing and isn't clearly sustainable unless you go up at the peak of spending. United could probably afforded another two seasons at a promotion push if they hadn't gone up when they did. Hasn't it been widely reported that they would have hit a transfer embargo had they not been promoted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldishowl Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 The club is probably the worst run club in the league. It is a graveyard for managers. The Cowleys saw that and wouldn’t touch it. We all know what needs to happen. Chansiri needs to step back a bit. His sidekick needs to go. We need a proper, experienced CEO We need a DOF to run contracts and recruitment and support the manager. We need a manager who is allowed to bring in his own staff . Personally I would get rid of coaches the manager inherited or at least let the manager decide. The issues we have had continually between managers and senior players are because the manager is hung out dry. He has no support so the players know they can take him on. Back to Loovens. Seems he controlled the dressing room egos for Carlos. Don’t know his coaching ability but if the manager wanted him he is the type of character we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 14 minutes ago, Johnny Concrete said: Hasn't it been widely reported that they would have hit a transfer embargo had they not been promoted? Thye reported 21m losses in their promotion season, so yes not a good trajectory; however, they had demonstrated that they could balance the books with the Brooks sale to record a 2m loss in the previous season. Therefore, they would have had to sell a player to avoid breaching FFP last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Every so often down the years I've explored the psychology of football supporters generally, and particularly that moment when they decide the panacea is a change of manager. Any hint of a positive must be extinguished, excused, attributed to someone else or denied outright. All possible negatives are assumed, exaggerated or even made up entirely. It's a bizarre compulsion that betrays a lack of perspective and can be interpreted as something of a tantrum; demanding to get something they want by just about any means necessary. Can't think of why I thought of that again in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanharper Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 4 hours ago, Blatter said: Rather than being a liar, isn’t it more likely that he’s been brutally honest with most of the squad about the chances of new contracts. The agents of the out of contract brigade would be asking for clarity at the time of the January transfer window. It’s pretty obvious a few of them have been told exactly where they stand on that score. It would certainly explain the collapse in form of quite a few who’ve been overpaid by Championship standards. But it wouldn't explain why many of those who were still in contract seemingly forgot how to play football as soon as they'd finished their Christmas turkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyLeedsOwl Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 6 hours ago, alanharper said: How does "he had no pre-season" explain why we were the third best performing team in the league up to Christmas and then suddenly became a team devoid of basic footballing ability, passion, and tactical nous? Fitness levels for one, putting together plan a, b & c. Ask any manager and they’ll all tell you that all the work is done in pre season. I’d also say the fixtures were kind at the beginning of the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatter Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 3 hours ago, alanharper said: But it wouldn't explain why many of those who were still in contract seemingly forgot how to play football as soon as they'd finished their Christmas turkey. I think we all know what a few dissenters can do to squad unity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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