@owlstalk Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Just now, rickygoo said: It's a bit of an obvious thing to say we need a clear out. There's no guarantee that clear out will result in better players - especially given we will probably have no money to spend. We'll be relying on having a manager who can spot a player who provides good value and can build a team from scratch. A Jack Charlton no less. Forgive me if I think giving Monk that job is going to end in disaster. A manager who can spot a player? Remind me again who recruits our players.... Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Miffed said: So let’s say hypothetically that there are 2 members of staff who can turn up at what time they want, don’t have to turn up every day, get Christmas off, get other perks such as an executive box, get paid more than anyone who has recently joined the company. Do you think that would go down well? It certainly wouldn’t with me (and others) at my place of work Make your mind up, you asked me in your previous post how it would be if they were the two most popular people in the dressing room - so obviously the players didn't have a problem with them and their attitude. Of course they wouldn't get free reign as I said in my previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 The Westwood and Hutchinson situation is just another sorry mess that the club was in for some time. Whether successive managers had the respect and control of them, and the first team squad is perhaps a major question, but it be a requirement of a manager/coach that they 'manage' the players. If Monk dealt with this by excluding them, then fine. Monk must have got DC to sanction it. The issues seem to be historic - certainly back to 2018 time and maybe before, during CC's time. I said at the time these stories broke in February, that I can not understand why Westwood was given a two year contract in the Summer of 2019 - just didn't make sense. Hutch's physical and mental state is obviously personal to himself, but now not only do we know about his indifferent physical fitness throughout his time at SWFC, we now know he has suffered mental issues. My employer has many staff off with stress and it does appear to be an increasing problem in the workplace. To what level mental issues affect you playing football and towing the management line are probably dependent on the person and the level of the illness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Just now, hirstyboywonder said: Make your mind up, you asked me in your previous post how it would be if they were the two most popular people in the dressing room - so obviously the players didn't have a problem with them and their attitude. Of course they wouldn't get free reign as I said in my previous post. Eh? You were just suggesting they should be allowed to do what they like because they're the most popular players You said it yourself a couple of posts back Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Miffed said: So let’s say hypothetically that there are 2 members of staff who can turn up at what time they want, don’t have to turn up every day, get Christmas off, get other perks such as an executive box, get paid more than anyone who has recently joined the company. Do you think that would go down well? It certainly wouldn’t with me (and others) at my place of work In which case it would need sorting. But it would need sorting by someone who could do something more impressive than just booting those two employees out and then thrashing about helplessly while the whole company crumbles underneath him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 1 minute ago, @owlstalk said: A manager who can spot a player? Remind me again who recruits our players.... Good point. In which case it's clear who needs to go first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Just now, @owlstalk said: Eh? You were just suggesting they should be allowed to do what they like because they're the most popular players You said it yourself a couple of posts back At no point did I say they should do what they like. Put the quote up if that's what you think - without editing and omitting parts of what I said to suit your argument. Answering any of this yet with regards to effective management performance? Results improving- No Performances improving - No Any signs of effective ways to improve the drop in results and performances - No Loan signings made in January having a positive impact on the results and performances - No Least goals at home in the division 2 goals at home in 16 first halves 2nd worst record in the division since Christmas - only bettered by Hull who sold their 2 best players in January and beat us at Hillsborough in January. Conceding goals for fun including losing the last 2 league games before half-time Tactical nous that all too often results in half time substitutions Playing the most creative attacking player in the team as a wing-back when nobody has ever considered playing him in any sort of role with defensive responsibility. But yeah, it all boils down to the fact people don't like him because he dropped Hutchinson and Westwood........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Just now, hirstyboywonder said: obviously the players didn't have a problem with them and their attitude. If you've been a manager of people previously you will know that you cannot possibly lump everyone in your workforce into one massive generalisation like that Why? Because it's totally inaccurate, wrong and naive to believe that all people think the same It's even more naive to believe people outwardly show their aggravation too. It can lead to all kinds of underlying, hidden morale/disciplinary issues if you let a couple of members of staff do what they want or get preferential treatment (even if it's the right thing to do/deserved/right by law) Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 29 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: If they were the 2 most popular players in the dressing room why choose to rock the boat to the extent that everything blows up? Free reign to anyone who wants to kick off at Hirstyboywonder's company Free reign lads Help yourselves to whatever you like because he's not gonna rock the boat by managing you for it Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Just now, @owlstalk said: If you've been a manager of people previously you will know that you cannot possibly lump everyone in your workforce into one massive generalisation like that Why? Because it's totally inaccurate, wrong and naive to believe that all people think the same It's even more naive to believe people outwardly show their aggravation too. It can lead to all kinds of underlying, hidden morale/disciplinary issues if you let a couple of members of staff do what they want or get preferential treatment (even if it's the right thing to do/deserved/right by law) That was an answer to a specific example scenario supplied by a previous poster, not something specific to our situation and once again you have taken a snippet to remove the context. Looking forward to you explaining the effective management that has resulted in this: Results improving- No Performances improving - No Any signs of effective ways to improve the drop in results and performances - No Loan signings made in January having a positive impact on the results and performances - No Least goals at home in the division 2 goals at home in 16 first halves 2nd worst record in the division since Christmas - only bettered by Hull who sold their 2 best players in January and beat us at Hillsborough in January. Conceding goals for fun including losing the last 2 league games before half-time Tactical nous that all too often results in half time substitutions Playing the most creative attacking player in the team as a wing-back when nobody has ever considered playing him in any sort of role with defensive responsibility. But yeah, it all boils down to the fact people don't like him because he dropped Hutchinson and Westwood........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 We need a definitive answer! What did Westwood and Hutchinson do or not do? Were they popular? If they were unpopular why would results and apparent attitudes plummet once you'd kicked them out instead of improve? If Westwood was such a bad egg why was he given a new contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Just now, hirstyboywonder said: But yeah, it all boils down to the fact people don't like him because he dropped Hutchinson and Westwood........ It actually does though Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 1 minute ago, @owlstalk said: Free reign to anyone who wants to kick off at Hirstyboywonder's company Free reign lads Help yourselves to whatever you like because he's not gonna rock the boat by managing you for it You've done it again, taking a snippet of a wider post out of context. Looking forward to you explaining how effective management has caused this: Results improving- No Performances improving - No Any signs of effective ways to improve the drop in results and performances - No Loan signings made in January having a positive impact on the results and performances - No Least goals at home in the division 2 goals at home in 16 first halves 2nd worst record in the division since Christmas - only bettered by Hull who sold their 2 best players in January and beat us at Hillsborough in January. Conceding goals for fun including losing the last 2 league games before half-time Tactical nous that all too often results in half time substitutions Playing the most creative attacking player in the team as a wing-back when nobody has ever considered playing him in any sort of role with defensive responsibility. But yeah, it all boils down to the fact people don't like him because he dropped Hutchinson and Westwood........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Just now, @owlstalk said: It actually does though It really doesn't. When we got tonked by Blackburn etc and lost to fuckingLuton I wasn't thinking about Westwood and Hutchinson at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Just now, hirstyboywonder said: it all boils down to the fact people don't like him because he dropped Hutchinson and Westwood........ Yup Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Just now, rickygoo said: It really doesn't. When we got tonked by Blackburn etc and lost to fuckingLuton I wasn't thinking about Westwood and Hutchinson at all. You may not have been but on the forums when we lose it's always 'get westwood and hutchinson back, sack monk and bring back carlos' Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 1 minute ago, @owlstalk said: You may not have been but on the forums when we lose it's always 'get westwood and hutchinson back, sack monk and bring back carlos' I was thinking get Zico and Shelts back, sack Monk and bring back Big Jack...but then I'm old school, so old school I spell it old school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 1 minute ago, @owlstalk said: Yup I'm sure you find yourself amusing in this thread, posting rubbish and part-quoting me to say I would give everyone free reign - cutting out the part of the posts where I state of course I wouldn't give free reign. Not sure exactly what you get out of this but if it makes you feel better about yourself and gives you a chuckle on your own then good for you. You'll probably have a chuckle at this too and chalk it off as some sort of victory - knock yourself out mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage owl Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: It actually does though People wouldn't give Hutchinson or Westwood a 2nd thought if we winning . Or even looking like winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 1 minute ago, sage owl said: People wouldn't give Hutchinson or Westwood a 2nd thought if we winning . Or even looking like winning. Aye maybe you're right We're going through a transition phase currently though, with players ending their contracts with us and not giving a flying foooook anymore. Look at how many players are coming to their contract end. Virtually a full first team. Crazy. We've got obvious issues within the camp that Monk is trying to manage And Chansiri is 100% bought into what Monk is trying to do Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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