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2 hours ago, BIG D said:

I can't wait to potentially start next season playing behind closed doors with a big points deduction.

How f**king thrilling will that be!

 

lol

 

Better than playing in league one behind closed doors. The last thing we want is to be relegated this year 

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43 minutes ago, Grandad said:

 

Googled that - and it looks like whoever it was was talking rubbish;

 

94 Disciplinary Appeals

94.1 A party to a Disciplinary Commission may appeal against a final order of the Disciplinary Commission (a ‘Disciplinary Appeal’).  A preliminary or procedural ruling by a Disciplinary Commission shall not be subject to a Disciplinary Appeal unless:

94.1.1 such ruling is dispositive (i.e. it amounts to a final resolution of the matter); or

94.1.2 such ruling, though not dispositive of itself, is subsequently incorporated into a final decision.

94.2 A Disciplinary Appeal shall be heard by the League Arbitration Panel in accordance with the provisions of Section 9 of these Regulations, supplemented by the provisions of this Regulation. In the event of any conflict between Section 9 and this Regulation, this Regulation shall prevail.

94.3 Any party wishing to bring a Disciplinary Appeal must, within 14 days of the making of the final order by the Disciplinary Commission (or such other shorter time period as ordered in accordance with the provisions of Regulation 92.5), serve on The League and any other party to the original proceedings:

94.3.1 written notice of the intention to bring a Disciplinary Appeal; and

94.3.2 a statement setting out the grounds of the Disciplinary Appeal.

94.4 Any party wishing to bring a Disciplinary Appeal shall also lodge with The League a deposit of £1,500 in respect of the costs of the Disciplinary Appeal.

94.5 Any party against whom penalties were imposed under Regulation 92 may apply, initially in writing, to the League Arbitration Tribunal for an order that such penalties be suspended pending the resolution of the Disciplinary Appeal. The League Arbitration Tribunal shall determine any such application having regard to the merits of the Disciplinary Appeal and the representations of the other parties.

94.6 No new evidence shall be admitted in respect of a Disciplinary Appeal unless the League Arbitration Panel determines that:

94.6.1 the evidence was not available at the time of the hearing before notwithstanding the exercise of reasonable diligence by the person seeking to introduce it;

94.6.2 the evidence is credible; and

94.6.3 the evidence is relevant.

94.7 Following a Disciplinary Appeal, the League Arbitration Tribunal shall have the power to:

94.7.1 confirm the decision; or

94.7.2 set aside the decision in whole or in part and substitute a new decision; or

94.7.3 order a rehearing before a differently constituted Disciplinary Commission.

Wow that’s a first on owlstalk  😊

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3 hours ago, steelcityowlsfan said:

It will be interesting to see how clubs vote. I was under the impression that most wanted a resumption of the league but it might just suit many financially and current league position wise to say sod it we vote cancel. 

Indeed, a simple majority of 51% sets a low bar. 

 

For the majority, there is little to play for aside from the 9 at either end of the league. 

 

That leaves 15 with nothing to play for and I'd  be astonished if any of the current bottom half wanted to risk a relegation scrap, Hull's leaked letter to EFL to void, perhaps indicative of how a few more may vote.

 

Irrespective, there will be no matchday income so assume purely a loss making exercise to jump through hoops to put on pointless games in empty stadiums. Unless the EFL have many millions stashed away to compensate clubs?

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Mishowl said:

Just because there is a vote doesn’t mean those that don’t get what they want or see as fair won’t take legal action.  

 

They will be made to look stupid by the press and EFL following what has largely been a diplomatic process. All their financial claims when pursuing damages would be based on ifs and buts and theoretical series of events.

 

Teams just need to accept that nature has dealt them this outcome and it would have applied to any team without an ounce of discrimination. 

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1 hour ago, doubleo said:

Imagine the scenario - the clubs vote to end the season, the 3 at the bottom would be livid and get together to appeal.. Then a few days later we are deducted enough points to put is in the bottom 3. DC screams FOUL, CONSPIRACY, and employs lawyers to take the EFL to court - and I think he would.  Assuming next season kicked off at the usual time, we would then have a situation of clubs not even knowing which division they were in next season with all the ramifications of contracts, new players etc etc. I’m not sure the EFL would want us to contend with as well. After all, imagine if we won an appeal in a court of law. That out trumps the EFL.

We tried to argue that holding the tribunal was unlawful but lost that battle so it may be we are now subject to whatever decision the tribunal takes subject to the right of appeal within the rules.

 

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3 hours ago, mogbad said:

How we vote will probably depend on how confident we are of winning the disciplinary case with the EFL.

 

If we're not confident & feel that a points deduction of more than 9 points is inevitable then we have no option but to vote to carry on & hope we get some points on the table to keep us out of the bottom 3.  If we're confident or think a points deduction will be no more than 9 points then ending the season now would be best for us.

What happened to ending it now because some things are more important than money and self interest? 
You know like players and staff health etc.

Just asking because of the vast majority of posts on here slating the Premier League for trying to play on because of “money and self interest”

Seems morality goes out the window when it suits.

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10 minutes ago, striker said:

Indeed, a simple majority of 51% sets a low bar. 

 

For the majority, there is little to play for aside from the 9 at either end of the league. 

 

That leaves 15 with nothing to play for and I'd  be astonished if any of the current bottom half wanted to risk a relegation scrap, Hull's leaked letter to EFL to void, perhaps indicative of how a few more may vote.

 

Irrespective, there will be no matchday income so assume purely a loss making exercise to jump through hoops to put on pointless games in empty stadiums. Unless the EFL have many millions stashed away to compensate clubs?

 

 

 

It's a low bar but what else can they do? They have to make some sort of decision. If you were to have a higher bar what would you apply the bar to?  If any decision was subject to say needing 2/3 clubs to support it there might not be enough support for any course of action. 

 

Ultimately the EFL will have to go with what their clubs want to do. The FA could impose something perhaps  - for example there was talk of them insisting the Premier League keep relegation as they are a "special shareholder" who have to give consent to any changes that involved blocking relegation. I don't know what power they have re the EFL.

 

But otherwise Parry can only do what the clubs want to do and with each division being a special case I think it makes sense to give them the power to decide separately.  From earlier meetings it seemed that most clubs didn't want a simple voiding of the season so the choice is between play on and PPG. Regardless of what people on here think about the fairness of voiding the season if the clubs don't want it then is isn't, in all likelihood, going to happen.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, soldierboyblue said:

The PL has to agree to promotion and relegation first - if they don’t well no one is going anywhere no matter what the EFL says. The easiest way and I think the one most clubs would accept is the voiding is the season and start afresh next 

 

You're in denial mate, across the EFL, the EPL and the FA along with all league sponsors and backers (bookmakers included) they want promotion and relegation. 

 

Voiding protects the teams who've been shithouse and penalises teams who have performed better than most. Playing on or using PPG does the opposite which gives merit out based on where we are. 

 

The rubbish teams can cry all they want about it but it's the same for everyone following a democratic exercise. Nothing discriminatory about it and they'd have trouble proving cases where they are not currently in a position of safety or in their minds 'nailed on for promotion' currently outside the playoffs. 

 

If they pass an emergency rule change in terms of finishing seasons now which leagues one and two are effectively voting on, the solution will be in place in future seasons as well. Look at the bigger picture.

 

Id rather be sued by teams trying to argue they've missed out on a hypothetical scenario than by teams as good as nailed on for promotion having that taken away. 

Edited by Mystic Neg

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3 hours ago, BIG D said:

I can't wait to potentially start next season playing behind closed doors with a big points deduction.

How f**king thrilling will that be!

 

lol

 

It's the.. 

You know the rest FFS..

🤣

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Surely, if a points deduction may take us down if the season is stopped now on PPG, we have to vote to carry on.

 

Voting to end the season now would be non-sensical with that risk. 
 

I’d rather carry on (even with the players we have) and look to put some wins together so a 10 or 12 point deduction wouldn’t take us down. 
 

If it’s possible staying up and getting the case sorted during this season would be the ideal objective to move on. 

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37 minutes ago, Mystic Neg said:

 

You're in denial mate, across the EFL, the EPL and the FA along with all league sponsors and backers (bookmakers included) they want promotion and relegation. 

 

Voiding protects the teams who've been shithouse and penalises teams who have performed better than most. Playing on or using PPG does the opposite which gives merit out based on where we are. 

 

The rubbish teams can cry all they want about it but it's the same for everyone following a democratic exercise. Nothing discriminatory about it and they'd have trouble proving cases where they are not currently in a position of safety or in their minds 'nailed on for promotion' currently outside the playoffs. 

 

If they pass an emergency rule change in terms of finishing seasons now which leagues one and two are effectively voting on, the solution will be in place in future seasons as well. Look at the bigger picture.

 

Id rather be sued by teams trying to argue they've missed out on a hypothetical scenario than by teams as good as nailed on for promotion having that taken away. 

I'm not in denial about anything - what I'm saying is that there is a rationale about voiding the season due to the fact that it will not be finished under the same conditions under which it commenced. 

 

There is also still a strong possibility that the games will not be able to be played even behind closed doors

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So the championship could have us , Birmingham and Derby all on - points at start of next season if EFL get there way 

 

Thrilling, stop the bus I wanna get off 

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1 hour ago, Howards back said:

Better than playing in league one behind closed doors. The last thing we want is to be relegated this year 

What worries me is the possibility of relegation and a points deduction next season.

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4 hours ago, Skyline said:

What does this mean?

 

 

a. Final divisional placings should be determined on unweighted points per game (if required).

Means that they look at our position at Christmas and we book our playoffs tickets! Would be a shitstorm to saviour to on our neighbours forums 😂

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48 minutes ago, soldierboyblue said:

I'm not in denial about anything - what I'm saying is that there is a rationale about voiding the season due to the fact that it will not be finished under the same conditions under which it commenced. 

 

There is also still a strong possibility that the games will not be able to be played even behind closed doors

 

I'm not having a go but you're talking about discussions that are weeks old. The EFL, EPL and FA have ruled out voiding completely, there is no appetite for it at all.

 

I think we are all aware that there's a strong possibility games will not be able to take place behind closed doors hence why the EFL, in consultation with the FA and EPL have had the diplomatic discussions with clubs and made their decision and statement today.

 

It will gain 51% plus in all leagues if it came down to it, including the Premier league if their last resort. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Skyline said:

What does this mean?

 

a. Final divisional placings should be determined on unweighted points per game (if required).

 

It means the below.  The top and bottom 3 remain the same if it's calculated weighted or unweighted...so at least nobody can argue about that.

 

1613099665_GUPVBONVNFFPPDFBOY3N2SACWA(1).jpg.504a7592586ea04f02a33e099bdc9532.jpg

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2 hours ago, nevthelodgemoorowl said:

Not so much what was said but more what was omitted. Grandads post yesterday referred to several clubs considering a path of litigation with Derby and A.N. Other joining them a very real possibility from a differing perspective. 

 

'Clubs are now required to give the matter further consideration, before the Board formally proposes the appropriate Regulation changes, which will then be voted on by all Clubs.'  

 

Not critical of chairmen here in anyway but they are being asked cast their single  vote on behalf of half a million fans who have feelings for their clubs and communities. This can not be right ! 

Fans don't count. Just business interests that matter.

 

Those in the middle of the league without much chance of play-offs or relegation will vote according to their financial interests. Are they better off playing behind closed doors or not. TV money versus extra costs.

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Points per game is a dreadful idea

 

Everyone hasn’t played everyone so coming to that conclusion is massively unfair 

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14 minutes ago, Suzuki_San said:

 

It means the below.  The top and bottom 3 remain the same if it's calculated weighted or unweighted...so at least nobody can argue about that.

 

1613099665_GUPVBONVNFFPPDFBOY3N2SACWA(1).jpg.504a7592586ea04f02a33e099bdc9532.jpg

So does this mean we can afford an 11 points deduction and still stay up?

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2 hours ago, Mystic Neg said:

 

They will be made to look stupid by the press and EFL following what has largely been a diplomatic process. All their financial claims when pursuing damages would be based on ifs and buts and theoretical series of events.

 

Teams just need to accept that nature has dealt them this outcome and it would have applied to any team without an ounce of discrimination. 

Who cares what the press say? Why should any club accept relegation, the loss of income and almost certainly having to make staff redundant because other clubs voted for it?
 

I don’t think you would be saying that if Wednesday were in the bottom three.

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