Dick_Turpin Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 hour ago, doubleo said: Imagine the scenario - the clubs vote to end the season, the 3 at the bottom would be livid and get together to appeal.. Then a few days later we are deducted enough points to put is in the bottom 3. DC screams FOUL, CONSPIRACY, and employs lawyers to take the EFL to court - and I think he would. Assuming next season kicked off at the usual time, we would then have a situation of clubs not even knowing which division they were in next season with all the ramifications of contracts, new players etc etc. I’m not sure the EFL would want us to contend with as well. After all, imagine if we won an appeal in a court of law. That out trumps the EFL. We tried to argue that holding the tribunal was unlawful but lost that battle so it may be we are now subject to whatever decision the tribunal takes subject to the right of appeal within the rules. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owling with laughter Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 3 hours ago, mogbad said: How we vote will probably depend on how confident we are of winning the disciplinary case with the EFL. If we're not confident & feel that a points deduction of more than 9 points is inevitable then we have no option but to vote to carry on & hope we get some points on the table to keep us out of the bottom 3. If we're confident or think a points deduction will be no more than 9 points then ending the season now would be best for us. What happened to ending it now because some things are more important than money and self interest? You know like players and staff health etc. Just asking because of the vast majority of posts on here slating the Premier League for trying to play on because of “money and self interest” Seems morality goes out the window when it suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, striker said: Indeed, a simple majority of 51% sets a low bar. For the majority, there is little to play for aside from the 9 at either end of the league. That leaves 15 with nothing to play for and I'd be astonished if any of the current bottom half wanted to risk a relegation scrap, Hull's leaked letter to EFL to void, perhaps indicative of how a few more may vote. Irrespective, there will be no matchday income so assume purely a loss making exercise to jump through hoops to put on pointless games in empty stadiums. Unless the EFL have many millions stashed away to compensate clubs? It's a low bar but what else can they do? They have to make some sort of decision. If you were to have a higher bar what would you apply the bar to? If any decision was subject to say needing 2/3 clubs to support it there might not be enough support for any course of action. Ultimately the EFL will have to go with what their clubs want to do. The FA could impose something perhaps - for example there was talk of them insisting the Premier League keep relegation as they are a "special shareholder" who have to give consent to any changes that involved blocking relegation. I don't know what power they have re the EFL. But otherwise Parry can only do what the clubs want to do and with each division being a special case I think it makes sense to give them the power to decide separately. From earlier meetings it seemed that most clubs didn't want a simple voiding of the season so the choice is between play on and PPG. Regardless of what people on here think about the fairness of voiding the season if the clubs don't want it then is isn't, in all likelihood, going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Neg Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, soldierboyblue said: The PL has to agree to promotion and relegation first - if they don’t well no one is going anywhere no matter what the EFL says. The easiest way and I think the one most clubs would accept is the voiding is the season and start afresh next You're in denial mate, across the EFL, the EPL and the FA along with all league sponsors and backers (bookmakers included) they want promotion and relegation. Voiding protects the teams who've been shithouse and penalises teams who have performed better than most. Playing on or using PPG does the opposite which gives merit out based on where we are. The rubbish teams can cry all they want about it but it's the same for everyone following a democratic exercise. Nothing discriminatory about it and they'd have trouble proving cases where they are not currently in a position of safety or in their minds 'nailed on for promotion' currently outside the playoffs. If they pass an emergency rule change in terms of finishing seasons now which leagues one and two are effectively voting on, the solution will be in place in future seasons as well. Look at the bigger picture. Id rather be sued by teams trying to argue they've missed out on a hypothetical scenario than by teams as good as nailed on for promotion having that taken away. Edited May 21, 2020 by Mystic Neg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roscoe P. Coltrane Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 3 hours ago, BIG D said: I can't wait to potentially start next season playing behind closed doors with a big points deduction. How f**king thrilling will that be! It's the.. You know the rest FFS.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichSheffWeds Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Surely, if a points deduction may take us down if the season is stopped now on PPG, we have to vote to carry on. Voting to end the season now would be non-sensical with that risk. I’d rather carry on (even with the players we have) and look to put some wins together so a 10 or 12 point deduction wouldn’t take us down. If it’s possible staying up and getting the case sorted during this season would be the ideal objective to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soldierboyblue Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 37 minutes ago, Mystic Neg said: You're in denial mate, across the EFL, the EPL and the FA along with all league sponsors and backers (bookmakers included) they want promotion and relegation. Voiding protects the teams who've been shithouse and penalises teams who have performed better than most. Playing on or using PPG does the opposite which gives merit out based on where we are. The rubbish teams can cry all they want about it but it's the same for everyone following a democratic exercise. Nothing discriminatory about it and they'd have trouble proving cases where they are not currently in a position of safety or in their minds 'nailed on for promotion' currently outside the playoffs. If they pass an emergency rule change in terms of finishing seasons now which leagues one and two are effectively voting on, the solution will be in place in future seasons as well. Look at the bigger picture. Id rather be sued by teams trying to argue they've missed out on a hypothetical scenario than by teams as good as nailed on for promotion having that taken away. I'm not in denial about anything - what I'm saying is that there is a rationale about voiding the season due to the fact that it will not be finished under the same conditions under which it commenced. There is also still a strong possibility that the games will not be able to be played even behind closed doors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 So the championship could have us , Birmingham and Derby all on - points at start of next season if EFL get there way Thrilling, stop the bus I wanna get off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Owl Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Howards back said: Better than playing in league one behind closed doors. The last thing we want is to be relegated this year What worries me is the possibility of relegation and a points deduction next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborne_rat_of_s6 Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 4 hours ago, Skyline said: What does this mean? a. Final divisional placings should be determined on unweighted points per game (if required). Means that they look at our position at Christmas and we book our playoffs tickets! Would be a shitstorm to saviour to on our neighbours forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Neg Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 48 minutes ago, soldierboyblue said: I'm not in denial about anything - what I'm saying is that there is a rationale about voiding the season due to the fact that it will not be finished under the same conditions under which it commenced. There is also still a strong possibility that the games will not be able to be played even behind closed doors I'm not having a go but you're talking about discussions that are weeks old. The EFL, EPL and FA have ruled out voiding completely, there is no appetite for it at all. I think we are all aware that there's a strong possibility games will not be able to take place behind closed doors hence why the EFL, in consultation with the FA and EPL have had the diplomatic discussions with clubs and made their decision and statement today. It will gain 51% plus in all leagues if it came down to it, including the Premier league if their last resort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzuki_San Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 5 hours ago, Skyline said: What does this mean? a. Final divisional placings should be determined on unweighted points per game (if required). It means the below. The top and bottom 3 remain the same if it's calculated weighted or unweighted...so at least nobody can argue about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowl Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 hours ago, nevthelodgemoorowl said: Not so much what was said but more what was omitted. Grandads post yesterday referred to several clubs considering a path of litigation with Derby and A.N. Other joining them a very real possibility from a differing perspective. 'Clubs are now required to give the matter further consideration, before the Board formally proposes the appropriate Regulation changes, which will then be voted on by all Clubs.' Not critical of chairmen here in anyway but they are being asked cast their single vote on behalf of half a million fans who have feelings for their clubs and communities. This can not be right ! Fans don't count. Just business interests that matter. Those in the middle of the league without much chance of play-offs or relegation will vote according to their financial interests. Are they better off playing behind closed doors or not. TV money versus extra costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoop Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Points per game is a dreadful idea Everyone hasn’t played everyone so coming to that conclusion is massively unfair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apswfcowl Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 14 minutes ago, Suzuki_San said: It means the below. The top and bottom 3 remain the same if it's calculated weighted or unweighted...so at least nobody can argue about that. So does this mean we can afford an 11 points deduction and still stay up? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1963owl Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 4 hours ago, mattitheowl said: w If we go down we'll be the next Bolton. Chansiri doesn't want to be throwing more money at a team even further away from the premier league. The taps would be turned off and we'd be cast adrift. It would be like last time but 10x worse! how do you know what he wants or doesnt want to spend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladeshater Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 4 hours ago, Grandad said: Didn't someone suggest yesterday that there is no right of appeal following EFL disciplinary hearings? If I wasn't sure I wouldn't have posted it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogbad Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Owling with laughter said: What happened to ending it now because some things are more important than money and self interest? You know like players and staff health etc. Just asking because of the vast majority of posts on here slating the Premier League for trying to play on because of “money and self interest” Seems morality goes out the window when it suits. Personally i think it should be ended now, i was commenting on how i felt the club itself would vote on the EFL proposals. Even if they do restart i dont believe it will finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG D Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 4 hours ago, Howards back said: You would rather be relegated for certain than have a chance to get out of it next year? I bet you thought we would get up at the first time of asking every time we’ve been relegated Oh yeah I’ve been going since ‘67 and I’m well used to us romping to the league title following relegation. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Tibbs Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 7 hours ago, mattitheowl said: So you'd have to think votes would look something like: Leeds - End it WBA - End it Fulham - Play on Brentford - End it Forest - End it Preston - End it Bristol City - Play on Millwall - Play on Cardiff - Play on Blackburn - Play on Swansea - Play on Derby - Play on QPR - Play on Reading - End it Wednesday - End it Birmingham - End it Stoke - End it Hudds - End it Boro - End it Wigan - End it Hull - End it Charlton - Play on Luton - Play on Barnsley - Play on So by that count I have Play on = 11, End it = 13. It's on a knife edge! You need to do it again so it finishes 12-12. Take your time, no rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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