Garry Monk “I hear the word ‘integrity’ a lot at the moment”

[Nero]

Professional football is meaningless without fans. It's bad enough no fans in the ground. But whose going to waste two hours watching for example Wednesday v Reading?

Just go to the play off. Tough titty if you are just outside.

 

 

[nethertonowl]

2 hours ago, Jeffjohnsonmyhero said:

This Government  ,I have a Daughter who is a Nurse and the supply of PPE has been a pee take ,This Government are clueless 

Dreadful position to be in, but  dont fall into the trap of thinking everybody else has it , and our government have failed us.

 

Every country around the world has struggled, even the much praised Germans

Spanish government faces legal action over lack of PPE 

Coronavirus: Doctors in Italy cry foul over protection 

German doctors pose naked in protest at PPE shortages

 

 

[ChapSmurf]

3 hours ago, Jeffjohnsonmyhero said:

This Government  ,I have a Daughter who is a Nurse and the supply of PPE has been a pee take ,This Government are clueless 

 

Of course they are clueless. As clueless as any Government seeing as no Government of any country in the world have has this situation to deal with before. It would have been no better, and no worse, if Labour were in power or we had wee Jimmy Krankie talking to us every day.

 

When will people stop politicising this world wide pandemic. It's pathetic.

[DJMortimer]

27 minutes ago, ChapSmurf said:

 

Of course they are clueless. As clueless as any Government seeing as no Government of any country in the world have has this situation to deal with before. It would have been no better, and no worse, if Labour were in power or we had wee Jimmy Krankie talking to us every day.

 

When will people stop politicising this world wide pandemic. It's pathetic.

 

I'm absolutely no Tory, but Keir Starmer has been a bit of a bellend since he became Labour leader; constantly politicising the issues. He spent ages nagging the Government for an exit plan, caring not for the confusion this would (and did ultimately) cause and then tried to take credit for it when they finally did so.

 

Half of the world was trying to source medical protective gear in volumes that it had never done before, yet the lack of it in this country was repeatedly used as a stick to beat the leaders with. Some of those doing it must have known it was disingenuous. You might as well berate the cabinet for not finding the man in the moon. 

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by DJMortimer

[Sergeant Tibbs]

56 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

I'm absolutely no Tory, but Keir Starmer has been a bit of a bellend since he became Labour leader; constantly politicising the issues. He spent ages nagging the Government for an exit plan, caring not for the confusion this would (and did ultimately) cause and then tried to take credit for it when they finally did so.

 

Half of the world was trying to source medical protective gear in volumes that it had never done before, yet the lack of it in this country was repeatedly used as a stick to beat the leaders with. Some of those doing it must have known it was disingenuous. You might as well berate the cabinet for not finding the man in the moon. 

 

I work for the NHS ( not frontline). I’ve got colleagues who are desperate need of PPE, can’t get it through work. 
Oddly, there are several of us who have sourced adequate equipment via t’internet. 
If those leaders wanted to score points in the right way, just get off their soap boxes and buy the stuff. 
....local MP donates PPE to....

 

Or is that just too simple.

[Dick_Turpin]

1 hour ago, ChapSmurf said:

 

Of course they are clueless. As clueless as any Government seeing as no Government of any country in the world have has this situation to deal with before. It would have been no better, and no worse, if Labour were in power or we had wee Jimmy Krankie talking to us every day.

 

When will people stop politicising this world wide pandemic. It's pathetic.

It's not like those press briefings aren't politicising it in any way - telling us how great they've been at dealing with it.  Lying to get out of political holes.

 

Some governments have dealt with the pandemic better than others - and maintained health systems over the years that are in a better shape to deal with it than others.  And that performance at its heart - for better or worse - is a political thing ultimately.  

[Dick_Turpin]

1 hour ago, DJMortimer said:

 

I'm absolutely no Tory, but Keir Starmer has been a bit of a bellend since he became Labour leader; constantly politicising the issues. He spent ages nagging the Government for an exit plan, caring not for the confusion this would (and did ultimately) cause and then tried to take credit for it when they finally did so.

 

Half of the world was trying to source medical protective gear in volumes that it had never done before, yet the lack of it in this country was repeatedly used as a stick to beat the leaders with. Some of those doing it must have known it was disingenuous. You might as well berate the cabinet for not finding the man in the moon. 

 

 

I saw Matt Hancock on Question Time just after lockdown saying the Government had solved the PPE problem and millions of items of PPE to fulfil all NHS needs was on the move that night. It was a blatant lie - and one that was repeated several times. When the reality on the ground and in the wards failed to match what the Government was telling us then they earned as much scathing criticism as came their way. 

 

If they'd come clean from Day One and explained the problems and how they were trying to deal with it they would have some sympathy from me. But repeatedly they've manipulated information and figures to suit their overall political PR strategy - showing international comparisons when they were favourable, disavowing them when they started to look bad, changing the basis on which they counted tests to hit a meaningless target they'd spouted on about.

 

From herd immunity to claiming they protected care homes from the start to how important testing is they've changed their story time and again to try and get out of PR holes. They played politics from Day One. To blame Starmer for reacting to that and to ignore the inadequacies of a system run by a Tory party that's been in power for a decade that's now run by a bloke who is a well documented and proven liar is pathetic desperate stuff and would mark someone out as much more of a bellend than Keir Starmer.  Maybe someone who should go and crawl back up Jordan Peterson's anus. 

[sherlyegg]

Sweden is the way to go...so some said.

Now the worse covid death rate in the world.

Though the economy is healthyish, of course if we had taken the same route, the tories would be putting money before lives.

Then the Scotts and the Welsh none-tory goverments have faired no better than England.

 

It's a complete foook up by the whole world..no matter who runs each country...

 

37 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

saw Matt Hancock on Question Time just after lockdown saying the Government had solved the PPE problem and millions of items of PPE to fulfil all NHS needs was on the move that night. I

 

Didn't we spend gazzilions on a shipment from err ...china and had to send it back because it was junk?...then another from Turkey, the same.

No one was making it here because it was impossible to compete on price.

Hope now the goverment and future governments now realise you get what you pay for...

They cannot make ppe that's any good...so just let em take control of our nuclear /  tech industries...what can possibly go wrong

 

 

 

[Dick_Turpin]

Just now, sherlyegg said:

Sweden is the way to go...so some said.

Now the worse covid death rate in the world.

Though the economy is healthyish, of course if we had taken the same route, the tories would be putting money before lives.

Then the Scotts and the Welsh none-tory goverments have faired no better than England.

 

It's a complete foook up by the whole world..no matter who runs each country...

 

 

Didn't we spend gazzilions on a shipment from err ...china and had to send it back because it was junk?...then another from Turkey, the same.

No one was making it here because it was impossible to compete on price.

Hope now the goverment and future governments now realise you get what you pay for...

They cannot make ppe that's any good...so just let em take control of our nuclear /  tech industries...what can possibly go wrong

 

 

 

I'm not saying it was easy  - but for supporters of a government that has played politics on this from Day One to complain about people criticising playing politics is a bit rich. 

[Emerson Thome]

3 hours ago, DJMortimer said:

 

I'm absolutely no Tory, but Keir Starmer has been a bit of a bellend since he became Labour leader; constantly politicising the issues. He spent ages nagging the Government for an exit plan, caring not for the confusion this would (and did ultimately) cause and then tried to take credit for it when they finally did so.

 

Half of the world was trying to source medical protective gear in volumes that it had never done before, yet the lack of it in this country was repeatedly used as a stick to beat the leaders with. Some of those doing it must have known it was disingenuous. You might as well berate the cabinet for not finding the man in the moon. 

 

Deaths in South Korea.... 263

Deaths in Germany... 8,270

Deaths in the UK... 35,704

 

But how dare that bellend Keir Starmer question our glorious leadership and their policies? Doesn't he know his job as Leader of the Opposition is to stay quiet save for a polite clap at 7pm each evening?

[DJMortimer]

1 hour ago, rickygoo said:

 

I saw Matt Hancock on Question Time just after lockdown saying the Government had solved the PPE problem and millions of items of PPE to fulfil all NHS needs was on the move that night. It was a blatant lie - and one that was repeated several times. When the reality on the ground and in the wards failed to match what the Government was telling us then they earned as much scathing criticism as came their way. 

 

If they'd come clean from Day One and explained the problems and how they were trying to deal with it they would have some sympathy from me. But repeatedly they've manipulated information and figures to suit their overall political PR strategy - showing international comparisons when they were favourable, disavowing them when they started to look bad, changing the basis on which they counted tests to hit a meaningless target they'd spouted on about.

 

From herd immunity to claiming they protected care homes from the start to how important testing is they've changed their story time and again to try and get out of PR holes. They played politics from Day One. To blame Starmer for reacting to that and to ignore the inadequacies of a system run by a Tory party that's been in power for a decade that's now run by a bloke who is a well documented and proven liar is pathetic desperate stuff and would mark someone out as much more of a bellend than Keir Starmer.  Maybe someone who should go and crawl back up Jordan Peterson's anus. 

 

I actually agree with most of that. You've singled Hancock out, and with good reason. He has often been surly, evasive and disingenuous. Johnson could keep Private Eye busy with material all by himself. Rees-Mogg is his own parody. There can be little doubt that the Government have not been honest regarding care homes or PPE for a start, and generally speaking I loathe the Conservative Party ethos. Purely from an ethical standpoint, protecting the rights of the 'top' 5-10% above all others is upside down.

 

Unfortunately though, it appears you have decided that politics is no more than a question of red or blue; right or left. Having made your choices, you are all in. And everyone else is apparently viewed through that same filter. Look at my profile picture. Is that your idea of a right wing icon?

 

And as for that last sentence; deary me. Wipe the foam from your chin. As I recall, on one occasion I used a meme featuring Peterson to illustrate a point about how people wildly exaggerate in debates to make their opponents look inferior and remarked that he was an "impressive figure" or something like that. That's it. Somehow from that, you have evidently psychoanalysed my entire character to your satisfaction and slammed the file shut?

 

 

[DJMortimer]

4 minutes ago, Emerson Thome said:

Deaths in South Korea.... 263

Deaths in Germany... 8,270

Deaths in the UK... 35,704

 

But how dare that bellend Keir Starmer question our glorious leadership and their policies? Doesn't he know his job as Leader of the Opposition is to stay quiet save for a polite clap at 7pm each evening?

 

You reckon there is any way, with any leader we could realistically have restricted this to levels comparable with South Korea? None of the major countries of Europe have managed anything like that as far as I know. But I'm only defending our response to a point.

 

Starmer's job as leader of the opposition is to take the Government to task and he has no shortage of ammunition to work with. Good luck to him on that score. Despite assumptions being made here I am very much on one side of the political fence almost by default. As I acknowledged above, there has clearly been an abundance of mistakes made and lies told. But that is not my issue with him. He is operating from a position of strength at the moment but is too busy playing the game; like when he tried taking credit for forcing Johnson's initial exit strategy statement or the Prime Minister today alluding to discussions that they'd been having that the Labour leader knowingly misrepresented in the Commons before meekly retreating. Stick to what matters and stop the grandstanding.

 

On reflection, using an inflammatory term like "bellend", which was just a hasty throwaway has kicked up a storm I didn't really even think about at the time. Some have picked up that ball and run with it, but not necessarily in the right direction.

[Plonk]

5 hours ago, DJMortimer said:

 

I'm absolutely no Tory, but Keir Starmer has been a bit of a bellend since he became Labour leader; constantly politicising the issues. He spent ages nagging the Government for an exit plan, caring not for the confusion this would (and did ultimately) cause and then tried to take credit for it when they finally did so.

 

Half of the world was trying to source medical protective gear in volumes that it had never done before, yet the lack of it in this country was repeatedly used as a stick to beat the leaders with. Some of those doing it must have known it was disingenuous. You might as well berate the cabinet for not finding the man in the moon. 

 

All after his opening statement that he wouldn’t politicise the pandemic. Well that went well

[Emerson Thome]

41 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

You reckon there is any way, with any leader we could realistically have restricted this to levels comparable with South Korea? None of the major countries of Europe have managed anything like that as far as I know. But I'm only defending our response to a point.

 

Starmer's job as leader of the opposition is to take the Government to task and he has no shortage of ammunition to work with. Good luck to him on that score. Despite assumptions being made here I am very much on one side of the political fence almost by default. As I acknowledged above, there has clearly been an abundance of mistakes made and lies told. But that is not my issue with him. He is operating from a position of strength at the moment but is too busy playing the game; like when he tried taking credit for forcing Johnson's initial exit strategy statement or the Prime Minister today alluding to discussions that they'd been having that the Labour leader knowingly misrepresented in the Commons before meekly retreating. Stick to what matters and stop the grandstanding.

 

On reflection, using an inflammatory term like "bellend", which was just a hasty throwaway has kicked up a storm I didn't really even think about at the time. Some have picked up that ball and run with it, but not necessarily in the right direction.

 

Basically, a lot of mistakes have been made, and a lot of unnecessary deaths have happened because of this. There's no reason we should have higher deaths than say Germany, a country with a larger population and much greater land borders. And one of the few chances to hold the leadership to account are those 6 questions at PMQs - the PM couldn't even be trusted to look after his own health, never mind any one else's.

 

When responding to a crisis the principle is to over-respond and then to gradually pare back, when it is safe to do so. So I don't understand when it is our own most vulnerable people at stake, this softly-softly approach was implemented. If the reasoning was to save the economy it has failed spectacularly because by having a much deeper and longer crisis the economy is twice as badly affected. We can't say we weren't warned, there were reports coming every day for over 50 days, before those fateful decisions were made in early March. And all that wasted time when we could have been putting in procedures to protect people in hospitals and care homes.

 

I don't have an issue with Starmer or anyone else politicising it, because all those wrong decisions made in March were for inherently political reasons.

[Dick_Turpin]

4 hours ago, Plonk said:

All after his opening statement that he wouldn’t politicise the pandemic. Well that went well

Johnson and the Tories have been political about it all from Day One with their obfuscation and lies. Starmer has been pretty measured. 

[Dick_Turpin]

6 hours ago, DJMortimer said:

 

I actually agree with most of that. You've singled Hancock out, and with good reason. He has often been surly, evasive and disingenuous. Johnson could keep Private Eye busy with material all by himself. Rees-Mogg is his own parody. There can be little doubt that the Government have not been honest regarding care homes or PPE for a start, and generally speaking I loathe the Conservative Party ethos. Purely from an ethical standpoint, protecting the rights of the 'top' 5-10% above all others is upside down.

 

Unfortunately though, it appears you have decided that politics is no more than a question of red or blue; right or left. Having made your choices, you are all in. And everyone else is apparently viewed through that same filter. Look at my profile picture. Is that your idea of a right wing icon?

 

And as for that last sentence; deary me. Wipe the foam from your chin. As I recall, on one occasion I used a meme featuring Peterson to illustrate a point about how people wildly exaggerate in debates to make their opponents look inferior and remarked that he was an "impressive figure" or something like that. That's it. Somehow from that, you have evidently psychoanalysed my entire character to your satisfaction and slammed the file shut?

 

 

 

I take many of your points - although a liking for Kennedy doesn't stop you being on the right of the political spectrum, I'm fairly sure "progressive" Tories like Chris Patten etc would be JFK fans. You calling Starmer a bellend for relatively mild politicking compared with what he's been faced with when you also referred to the "Professor of Piffle", as someone once called him,as an "impressive figure" seemed a tad unfair. Starmer has been treading a careful line faced with the Government churning out vast amounts of propaganda every day. 

 

As for  me having decided politics is no more than a question red or blue you appear to have psychoanalysed my entire view on politics to your satisfaction and slammed the file shut.  It's actually far more nuanced than that - although it's true that I do see the Tory Party as a thing as loathsome. 

 

 

How that means I've psychoanalysed your entire character and slammed the file shut I fail to see - sounds like a wild exaggeration to me. 

Stay Safe.

 

 

 

 

 

[Harrysgame]

8 hours ago, sherlyegg said:

Sweden is the way to go...so some said.

Now the worse covid death rate in the world.

Though the economy is healthyish, of course if we had taken the same route, the tories would be putting money before lives.

Then the Scotts and the Welsh none-tory goverments have faired no better than England.

 

It's a complete foook up by the whole world..no matter who runs each country...

 

 

Didn't we spend gazzilions on a shipment from err ...china and had to send it back because it was junk?...then another from Turkey, the same.

No one was making it here because it was impossible to compete on price.

Hope now the goverment and future governments now realise you get what you pay for...

They cannot make ppe that's any good...so just let em take control of our nuclear /  tech industries...what can possibly go wrong

 

 

 

The whole world is struggling with this with the exception of some of the more remote or low density countries. Makes no difference if Labour or Tories in charge things would go wrong. 're the shipment from Turkey ordered something and tested and not up to standard...pretty sure the factory didn't say do you want some sub standard or some accredited ppe.

Stop the blame and get on with getting past this.

[DJMortimer]

16 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

 

I take many of your points - although a liking for Kennedy doesn't stop you being on the right of the political spectrum, I'm fairly sure "progressive" Tories like Chris Patten etc would be JFK fans. You calling Starmer a bellend for relatively mild politicking compared with what he's been faced with when you also referred to the "Professor of Piffle", as someone once called him,as an "impressive figure" seemed a tad unfair. Starmer has been treading a careful line faced with the Government churning out vast amounts of propaganda every day. 

 

 

Kennedy's politics, especially in international affairs, are often misunderstood. Not many right wing figures would be advocating the freedom of small states around the world to not be assets of US corporate greed, or leading sweeping civil rights reforms, or seeking to end the cold war. But that's all part of his second assassination. 

 

19 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

 

As for  me having decided politics is no more than a question red or blue you appear to have psychoanalysed my entire view on politics to your satisfaction and slammed the file shut.  It's actually far more nuanced than that - although it's true that I do see the Tory Party as a thing as loathsome. 

How that means I've psychoanalysed your entire character and slammed the file shut I fail to see - sounds like a wild exaggeration to me. 

 

Well, yes. That was kind of the point.

[Dick_Turpin]

6 minutes ago, Harrysgame said:

The whole world is struggling with this with the exception of some of the more remote or low density countries. Makes no difference if Labour or Tories in charge things would go wrong. 're the shipment from Turkey ordered something and tested and not up to standard...pretty sure the factory didn't say do you want some sub standard or some accredited ppe.

Stop the blame and get on with getting past this.

 

From Garry Monk and integrity to Boris Johnson being allowed to get away with his lack of it. That's one helluva derailed thread!

[DJMortimer]

5 hours ago, Emerson Thome said:

 

Basically, a lot of mistakes have been made, and a lot of unnecessary deaths have happened because of this. There's no reason we should have higher deaths than say Germany, a country with a larger population and much greater land borders. And one of the few chances to hold the leadership to account are those 6 questions at PMQs - the PM couldn't even be trusted to look after his own health, never mind any one else's.

 

When responding to a crisis the principle is to over-respond and then to gradually pare back, when it is safe to do so. So I don't understand when it is our own most vulnerable people at stake, this softly-softly approach was implemented. If the reasoning was to save the economy it has failed spectacularly because by having a much deeper and longer crisis the economy is twice as badly affected. We can't say we weren't warned, there were reports coming every day for over 50 days, before those fateful decisions were made in early March. And all that wasted time when we could have been putting in procedures to protect people in hospitals and care homes.

 

I don't have an issue with Starmer or anyone else politicising it, because all those wrong decisions made in March were for inherently political reasons.

 

Oh, I agree. And as I indicated, I have no time for the Conservative / Republican ethos of serving interests from the top down. Fires have been starting all over the place, but it's the easiest thing in the world to sit back and start pointing out some of the small ones that have been missed. The media have specialised in this and at times looked utterly sanctimonious in doing so. At times I believe Starmer has done too much of that when there have been bigger targets. I do like his composure in the Commons though and I suspect that will be a source of frustration for the opposition if he maintains that.