Six premier league footballers test positive for Covid 19

[DJMortimer]

20 minutes ago, pat blondeau said:

What’s your solution then? Sports, pubs, restaurants and airlines can’t reopen or restart until the virus is completely eradicated or there’s a mass vaccine available?

 

And there's that straw man again. Why do people insist on this relentless misrepresentation of every situation as no more than two polarised opposites? Nuance and subtlety are slowly being strangled out of existence.

 

Just one thing to think about - the much vaunted track and trace method has almost no effect on restricting the reproduction of the virus with infection rates at the levels we have seen in the last few weeks. Models estimate that it only reduces the much discussed 'R' rate by about 0.1. But if you wait until the infections are at a lower level, perhaps just three or four weeks in the future, it is suddenly much more effective.

 

20 minutes ago, pat blondeau said:

If the government is looking to get people back to work, do you think they need to be publishing how many of that 35k figure you’ve quoted were aged under 65 with no pre existing conditions?

 

Again, there is much more to this pandemic than death rates and age profiles. What was the Government's top priority all these weeks? Preotecting the NHS from being overburdened. Maybe they should have mentioned this more often?  That could still have happened if absolutely no one died because of the prolonged care required for those suffering the worst symptoms.

 

Have you considered the potential for long term organ damage amongst those who recover for example? Or the research that suggests immunity from those who have been infected may not last very long in these types of viruses? Or the less than perfect reliability of testing kits? Or the widely anticipated second wave? Or the comparative ignorance of science in understanding so many aspects of the pandemic and it's effects?

 

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by DJMortimer

[pat blondeau]

6 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

Just one thing to think about - the much vaunted track and trace method has almost no effect on restricting the reproduction of the virus with infection rates at the levels we have seen in the last few weeks. Models estimate that it only reduces the much discussed 'R' rate by about 0.1. But if you wait until the infections are at a lower level, perhaps just three or four weeks in the future, it is suddenly much more effective.

 

The USA are currently getting around 30k new cases per day, Russia around 10k new cases per day and Brazil 15k new cases per day. Is track and trace viable globally?

 

Seems likely the numbers will go down in Europe through the summer and then spike again next winter.

 

Even countries that have been successful at keeping it at bay so far like Australia and New Zealand - are they not just kicking it down the road? They’ll have to reopen their borders and airports at some point 

[DJMortimer]

1 minute ago, pat blondeau said:

The USA are currently getting around 30k new cases per day, Russia around 10k new cases per day and Brazil 15k new cases per day. Is track and trace viable globally?

 

Seems likely the numbers will go down in Europe through the summer and then spike again next winter.

 

Even countries that have been successful at keeping it at bay so far like Australia and New Zealand - are they not just kicking it down the road? They’ll have to reopen their borders and airports at some point 

 

My understanding, from the models being used by those advising the UK Government, is that track and trace on it's own has little effect on the reproduction rate with the current infection rates and population densities. But when the numbers are lower it can make the situation much more manageable. Apparently there are still some problems to resolve before this system can be rolled out reliably though. 

 

In the United States, although the numbers are greater, maybe the geography is to their advantage due to the large distances between a lot of communities that could help them isolate outbreaks? I have wondered about that 'kicking it down the road' issue too and you may be right. International travel in that regard presents a major problem. Perhaps only time will tell?

 

Broadly speaking, and despite some significant mistakes, I think the Government here has been taking the right kind of action. At the moment, I think they may be pushing a little too quickly for the returns of schools, sports and so on. However, I appreciate the enormous pressure the authorities are under on a wide variety of fronts; especially the economy and the impact on businesses and livelihoods.

 

As for what comes after that; who knows? The West are only just getting into that territory and it seems almost inevitable that the rate of infections will start increasing again. China might be instructive, but how much trust can we place in their accounts? I can't pretend to have the answers and don't envy those burdened with those responsibilities.

 

 

 

 

[Samurai Blue]

 

[Emerson Thome]

1 hour ago, pat blondeau said:

The USA are currently getting around 30k new cases per day, Russia around 10k new cases per day and Brazil 15k new cases per day. Is track and trace viable globally?

 

Seems likely the numbers will go down in Europe through the summer and then spike again next winter.

 

Even countries that have been successful at keeping it at bay so far like Australia and New Zealand - are they not just kicking it down the road? They’ll have to reopen their borders and airports at some point 

 

Although the US, Russia and Brazil aren't great examples of how to base our policy - there has been little or no attempt to track and trace there.

 

This disease behaves very differently to the flu (part of the problems in the UK was early on a lot of the modelling was treating it like it was the flu). So not convinced by the seasonal link - look at countries in South America where is it dry and hot, and has been for the past 3 months, but still the cases keep rising.

[Socialist_Owl]

Clearly the "STAY AT HOME" mandate is more a suggestion than actual directive for many people...

[Wednesday_Jack]

7 hours ago, sherlyegg said:

Difference being, if they had the dosh they would prob say bollloxe to that I ain't going back until it is proven safe not guess work.

 

Though i'm sure most will be overjoyed and can't wait to get back.

that’s kinda my point mate. Footballers using their financial power as choice not to!! If they were earning £2,500 a month on the furlough scheme, do you think their attitude would be different??

 

Why all of sudden are the clubs in the relegation mix (Watford, Brighton, Burnley) coming out and saying they have players who have tested positive for covid-19?? These players like the rest of us should have been in lockdown for the last 8 weeks. 

[Socialist_Owl]

7 minutes ago, Wednesday_Jack said:

that’s kinda my point mate. Footballers using their financial power as choice not to!! If they were earning £2,500 a month on the furlough scheme, do you think their attitude would be different??

 

Why all of sudden are the clubs in the relegation mix (Watford, Brighton, Burnley) coming out and saying they have players who have tested positive for covid-19?? These players like the rest of us should have been in lockdown for the last 8 weeks. 

Exactly.  This flipping enrages me, tbh.

 

 

[Guest Mcguigan]

4 hours ago, DJMortimer said:

 

And there's that straw man again. Why do people insist on this relentless misrepresentation of every situation as no more than two polarised opposites? Nuance and subtlety are slowly being strangled out of existence.

 

Just one thing to think about - the much vaunted track and trace method has almost no effect on restricting the reproduction of the virus with infection rates at the levels we have seen in the last few weeks. Models estimate that it only reduces the much discussed 'R' rate by about 0.1. But if you wait until the infections are at a lower level, perhaps just three or four weeks in the future, it is suddenly much more effective.

 

 

Again, there is much more to this pandemic than death rates and age profiles. What was the Government's top priority all these weeks? Preotecting the NHS from being overburdened. Maybe they should have mentioned this more often?  That could still have happened if absolutely no one died because of the prolonged care required for those suffering the worst symptoms.

 

Have you considered the potential for long term organ damage amongst those who recover for example? Or the research that suggests immunity from those who have been infected may not last very long in these types of viruses? Or the less than perfect reliability of testing kits? Or the widely anticipated second wave? Or the comparative ignorance of science in understanding so many aspects of the pandemic and it's effects?

 

 

Instead of the constant efforts trying to belittle them, why can't you accept that other posters have a different opinion to yours?

 

We all get it, in your world everyone will do nothing ever again.

 

 

[Wednesday_Jack]

10 minutes ago, Socialist_Owl said:

Exactly.  This flipping enrages me, tbh.

 

 

Most of the UK are now adapting and trying to get back to normality or at least adopting some form of new normality...as the government is encouraging and on my opinion, rightly so. 

 

I can’t for one second rationalise in my mind that players at any PL or championship Clubs aren’t as safer if not safer training and playing behind closed doors, then 500 men on a major construction site. I also can’t understand why these clubs with the money available to them, Aren’t coming out and saying “we’ve bought this piece of kit” or “we’ve adopted this strategy”!!

[FroggattOwls]

Manufacturing companies have been operating throughout this. The most dangerous part of the PL returning, is the dressing room. Actually playing footy the risk is almost zero. All research points that poorly ventilated closed environments are the main sites, not being outdoors. 
 

Also despite the press teachers are having to go in. My parter has been in two days into school this week for example.

Edited May 20, 2020 by FroggattOwls

[@owlstalk]

55 minutes ago, Wednesday_Jack said:

Most of the UK are now adapting and trying to get back to normality or at least adopting some form of new normality...as the government is encouraging and on my opinion, rightly so. 

 

I can’t for one second rationalise in my mind that players at any PL or championship Clubs aren’t as safer if not safer training and playing behind closed doors, then 500 men on a major construction site. I also can’t understand why these clubs with the money available to them, Aren’t coming out and saying “we’ve bought this piece of kit” or “we’ve adopted this strategy”!!

 

Hi mate,

What bit of kit do you think would help players playing football?

[eccentric owl]

1 hour ago, Wednesday_Jack said:

that’s kinda my point mate. Footballers using their financial power as choice not to!! If they were earning £2,500 a month on the furlough scheme, do you think their attitude would be different??

 

Why all of sudden are the clubs in the relegation mix (Watford, Brighton, Burnley) coming out and saying they have players who have tested positive for covid-19?? These players like the rest of us should have been in lockdown for the last 8 weeks. 

I've had to work all the way through and I have a child who's very vulnerable. Do you think if I had the cash they have I'd be going to work to please others? Just because they are likely to be ok doesn't mean a family member will be. It should be the choice of every player to decide if they wanna play. Players with vulnerable kids or family members have every right to say no. As for Watford Brighton and Burnley they have come out and said it because it's true. The people on question could have caught it in tesco or the petrol station or many other ways! Theres nothing to indicate anyone has broke lockdown rules other than your assumption. 

[Wednesday_Jack]

44 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Hi mate,

What bit of kit do you think would help players playing football?

i’m not the expert but there are people who know what’s required...clubs pay their own doctors and back room staff thousands of pounds a year for things like this. 
 

However, i do know that there is equipment already available to help detect the virus from a very early stage m...I work in construction and we get daily offers on the equipment. PM me your email address and I will send you the info. 

[the third man]

1 hour ago, Wednesday_Jack said:

Most of the UK are now adapting and trying to get back to normality or at least adopting some form of new normality...as the government is encouraging and on my opinion, rightly so. 

 

I can’t for one second rationalise in my mind that players at any PL or championship Clubs aren’t as safer if not safer training and playing behind closed doors, then 500 men on a major construction site. I also can’t understand why these clubs with the money available to them, Aren’t coming out and saying “we’ve bought this piece of kit” or “we’ve adopted this strategy”!!

The difference is football isn't needed by anyone but the leagues, construction  needs to go on

 

it isn't a case of looking and saying if these can do it why cant we

 

People are at risk at work, I am, but I don't think everyone should be a risk because I am, if its not needed, there is no need for it, and football is not needed

 

[pat blondeau]

3 hours ago, Socialist_Owl said:

Clearly the "STAY AT HOME" mandate is more a suggestion than actual directive for many people...

How long do you think furlough can go on?
 

2.1 million people are now claiming unemployment benefits in the U.K.

 

There’s also 8 million people furloughed. The longer this goes on the less chance they’ll have a job to go back to.

 

The ‘Stay at Home’ mandate isn’t there anymore, it’s been replaced by ‘Stay alert, control the virus’.

 

A lot of people seem oblivious to the wider damage of just shutting down economies. The knock on effect of the virus is going to be worse than the actual virus itself unless there’s a shift in this 

[DJMortimer]

4 hours ago, Mcguigan said:

Instead of the constant efforts trying to belittle them, why can't you accept that other posters have a different opinion to yours?

 

We all get it, in your world everyone will do nothing ever again.

 

 

 

I'm trying to engage people on the issues in a substantive and hopefully informed way. Maybe I can introduce perspectives they haven't considered or were unaware of. 

 

You on the other hand, have ironically refused to accept alternative viewpoints, preferring instead Donald Trump style flouncing, name-calling and avoiding any details you don't like. 

 

If you can't look beyond simple binary choices, in a cheap and transparent attempt to "belittle" others, then I can't help you. It's classic straw man psychology. Yes, everything I have said is a solemn recommendation none of us ever get out of bed again.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by DJMortimer

[Wednesday_Jack]

2 hours ago, the third man said:

The difference is football isn't needed by anyone but the leagues, construction  needs to go on

 

it isn't a case of looking and saying if these can do it why cant we

 

People are at risk at work, I am, but I don't think everyone should be a risk because I am, if its not needed, there is no need for it, and football is not needed

 

scrap the season and put all remaining contracted players on furlough then if that’s case...save the detrimental knock on affect and people losing their jobs etc....

Edited May 20, 2020 by Wednesday_Jack

[MAL]

4 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Hi mate,

What bit of kit do you think would help players playing football?

 

Stabilisers...

 

Keep the wasters on their feet.

 

 

 

 

[the third man]

1 hour ago, Wednesday_Jack said:

scrap the season and put all remaining contracted players on furlough then if that’s case...save the detrimental knock on affect and people losing their jobs etc....

If we worried about saving jobs, then we just have carried on, regardless of the effect

 

What's more important at the end of the day is peoples lives not jobs, I would imagine most people would rather have a low death rate