@owlstalk Posted May 19, 2020 Author Share Posted May 19, 2020 Just now, ZicoSterland2 said: Francis built on big Rons legacy He did the exact opposite mate. He tore it down, set fire to it, pee'd all over it, and left us all with the wet ashes of it. 1 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZicoSterland2 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 Just now, @owlstalk said: He did the exact opposite mate. He tore it down, set fire to it, pee'd all over it, and left us all with the wet ashes of it. Thats your opinion. Your welcome to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted May 19, 2020 Author Share Posted May 19, 2020 1 minute ago, ZicoSterland2 said: Thats your opinion. Your welcome to it. It's absolute fact whichever way you look at it mate. The squad he left us with, and every other aspect of the club was far worse off than what was left by Big Ron You're just applying your happy memories to the facts and trying to say forget the facts remember the nice stuff The facts all point to Sheffield Wednesday being way worse off on the day Francis was sacked, then the day he took the reigns Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthefish2002 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 If you look at Francis's record at Wednesday and other clubs he was a pretty average manager. He was manager of 1992/93 season which was the best Wednesday side in my lifetime so must take some credit for that. Deserved to get sack in 1995 as things had gone stale and players didnt respect him by then. Think harsh to blame him on our demise since as its 25 years ago now he was manager. Out of the managers we had at that time think Danny Wilson must take most blame for relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZicoSterland2 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: It's absolute fact whichever way you look at it mate. The squad he left us with, and every other aspect of the club was far worse off than what was left by Big Ron You're just applying your happy memories to the facts and trying to say forget the facts remember the nice stuff The facts all point to Sheffield Wednesday being way worse off on the day Francis was sacked, then the day he took the reigns You forgot the inbetweens. The Blackburn aways the Blunts at Wembley coming 3rd in the league. Great days that will probably never be repeated. As I said you are welcome to your opinion but you cant take those days away. Football is a rollercoaster of good and bad. Thats what keeps it interesting, but in 40+ years of following the Owls they were without doubt the best football moments of true quality I have seen. You may argue whatever you like but on a footballing note they are the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanharper Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 1 hour ago, WadsleyOwl said: IIRC Dave Richards approached him and he said something along the lines of how could you expect me to work there after what happened. We should have gone for Bobby Robson after Big Ron left or Venables after losing both cup finals. You think Robson would have left PSV Eindhoven after winning the title with them to join a club that had just finished third in the second division? Or that we should have ditched Francis after getting to two cup finals in a season? Really? And I thought those who said Carlos should have left after the 2016 play off final had 20:20 hindsight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted May 19, 2020 Author Share Posted May 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, ZicoSterland2 said: You forgot the inbetweens. The Blackburn aways the Blunts at Wembley coming 3rd in the league. Great days that will probably never be repeated. As I said you are welcome to your opinion but you cant take those days away. Football is a rollercoaster of good and bad. Thats what keeps it interesting, but in 40+ years of following the Owls they were without doubt the best football moments of true quality I have seen. You may argue whatever you like but on a footballing note they are the facts. That doesn't mean Francis improved on Ron's legacy though mate It just means you enjoyed the games whilst Francis dismantled the squad, ruined our chances of success, and got sacked for being pants. Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted May 19, 2020 Author Share Posted May 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, matthefish2002 said: If you look at Francis's record at Wednesday and other clubs he was a pretty average manager. He was manager of 1992/93 season which was the best Wednesday side in my lifetime so must take some credit for that. Deserved to get sack in 1995 as things had gone stale and players didnt respect him by then. Think harsh to blame him on our demise since as its 25 years ago now he was manager. Out of the managers we had at that time think Danny Wilson must take most blame for relegation. Wilson was just one of those poor folks who inherited Francis' mess Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 Looking back at that 1991/2 season; we've finished higher in the league just once in the last 90 years (when we last won it). I'll let you draw your own conclusions about how much of a disaster that was. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowl Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 4 hours ago, DJMortimer said: I never understand how a series of complex events that snowballed over a long period of time like that can be distilled into, 'it was Pleat's fault' for example. But it happens all the time. As demonstrated above. It was Pleat's fault. I'll add FACT. Now it's indisputably true. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted May 19, 2020 Author Share Posted May 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, prowl said: It was Pleat's fault. I'll add FACT. Now it's indisputably true. Tried and tested internet forum technique - utilised since 1998 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Tibbs Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 5 hours ago, DJMortimer said: No one can doubt that Francis lost it after the first couple of years. How did he go from signing the likes of Walker, Bright, Waddle and Warhurst who all made the squad better to Nolan, Coleman, Atherton etc? Could it have been the budget available? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoop Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 As bad as Pleat was, Atkinson was working his magic once again when he came back, the signings of Thome and Alexanderson were great business, plus he was getting the best out of Di Canio and Carbone too. Not renewing his contract was the beginning of this long slide to obscurity imo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Sergeant Tibbs said: Could it have been the budget available? I always wondered how we could go so quickly from the Charterhouse investment in 1997 to being so much in debt. Evidently we were taking on water well before and that cash injection only slowed down the rate at which it was coming into the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Tibbs Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 32 minutes ago, Stoop said: As bad as Pleat was, Atkinson was working his magic once again when he came back, the signings of Thome and Alexanderson were great business, plus he was getting the best out of Di Canio and Carbone too. Not renewing his contract was the beginning of this long slide to obscurity imo It was a petty piece of one-upmanship by Richards. I forgave Ron for his move to his boyhood club, Richards however was the guardian of our club and he should hold his head in shame. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 5 hours ago, @owlstalk said: Sure. Relegation from the Premier League with players on incredibly ridiculous contracts (some of whom got appearance bonuses even if they didn't appear, and most didn't include relegation clauses), and the subsequent financial repercussions of it, added to fans expectations that we should be a Premier League club still. Are you blaming Francis for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted May 19, 2020 Author Share Posted May 19, 2020 1 minute ago, hirstyboywonder said: Are you blaming Francis for that? The word 'relegation is in there mate But we can pick at semantics for the night if you really want to Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 Not many people come down stairs by taking a headlong dive from the top. There were plenty of steps in between. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: The word 'relegation is in there mate But we can pick at semantics for the night if you really want to Trevor Francis got sacked in 1995 and we got relegated in 2000 without many of the players that were with us under Francis but you lay the blame for relegation and the contracts of the players we got relegated with at Francis door? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexpistol Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 1 hour ago, @owlstalk said: Wilson was just one of those poor folks who inherited Francis' mess Yes, let’s all blame Trevor for relegation 5 years after he left Was it Trevors fault that Woods inexplicably missed a routine header at him in the 119th minute of the 1993 FA cup final replay? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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