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Trevor Francis opens up on being sacked by Wednesday


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7 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

No worries, the fact you put it down in writing is enough for @Owlstalk to support it in this thread, another key fact that supports the debate he is clearly winning in respect of Francis being the devil incarnate. 

just checked they won the league cup in 94 under Big Ron; I was sure they did win it under him!  

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2 minutes ago, York_Owl said:

just checked they won the league cup in 94 under Big Ron; I was sure they did win it under him!  

 

They did indeed, supports the notion that he is a good cup manager, he was sacked the following season for his league record.

 

I don't think you can blame Francis for us not winning the bigger cup competition in 1993 when our opponents conceding that we played the better football and spurned good chances to win it.

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6 minutes ago, York_Owl said:

I didn't think Warhust did play that well as a defender.  Looked great carrying the ballout of defence (Leeds away 1-1, 91-92) but defensively made quite a lot of mistakes, rash challenges (e.g. pigs away), gave penalties away (e.g. Notts County), switched off at times (e.g. back pass v Man U at home).  We did need a centre back but I think we could have got better (Jobson and Earl Barrett were first choice at Oldham ahead of Warhurst).  I actually think Earl Barrett would have been a good signing (in 91 not 98 when we did eventually sign him)!

 

I didn't mention Waddle as he brought him in the following season 92-93.

 

I disagree on Warhurst, yes he made some mistakes but in isolated incidents you could pick a few costly errors out from the likes of Walker, Pearson, even Nilsson.

Agree that Barrett would have also been a good signing, doubt he would have turned into the striker that Francis spotted in Warhurst in 1992 though, which is exactly what we needed. 

We were a newly promoted club in the summer of 1991, a good side playing good football but perhaps not as attractive as many other top flight clubs would have been at that time so our power of attracting top players might have hindered us a little. Few were predicting us to finish as high as 3rd that season put it that way. 

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Just now, hirstyboywonder said:

 

They did indeed, supports the notion that he is a good cup manager, he was sacked the following season for his league record.

 

I don't think you can blame Francis for us not winning the bigger cup competition in 1993 when our opponents conceding that we played the better football and spurned good chances to win it.

Fine margins isn't it.  That Bright chance, the Woods howler.

 

I do hold Francis to account for not winning another trophy with the side he inherited.  As I mentioned before you look at the best part of 3m he spent on Woods, Jemson and Warhurst in that 91-92 season and I do believe it could have been spent more wisely.  

 

In fact he recognised we needed a centre back in 91 and signed Warhurst for that purpose but then moved him up front (briliant move) but in terms of the centre back position it came back to bite us in the FA Cup finals when Pearson, Shirtliff and Anderson were injured.

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1 minute ago, York_Owl said:

Fine margins isn't it.  That Bright chance, the Woods howler.

 

I do hold Francis to account for not winning another trophy with the side he inherited.  As I mentioned before you look at the best part of 3m he spent on Woods, Jemson and Warhurst in that 91-92 season and I do believe it could have been spent more wisely.  

 

In fact he recognised we needed a centre back in 91 and signed Warhurst for that purpose but then moved him up front (briliant move) but in terms of the centre back position it came back to bite us in the FA Cup finals when Pearson, Shirtliff and Anderson were injured.

 

Woods blew it in the big games and that stands out. His cup final mistake was unforgivable but the majority of games over two seasons he was among the top keepers in the country. 

Jemson I agree wasn't a great signing but from what I remember at the time it seemed more of a stop gap move to cover injuries as the season was well underway at the time.

Warhurst I maintain did a decent job at centre-back and it was only in his second season that he moved forward. He is probably one of the biggest transfer profits we have made on a player which tells its own story!

By the time he had moved into attack in 92-93 we did need another CB but sqauds weren't as big as they are now and having Pearson, Shirtliff and Anderson injured at the same crucial time was typical luck as far as Wednesday injuries over the years are concerned.

 

I still think that we were far from the biggest attraction going into the top flight in the summer of 1991 and so were never going to attract loads of big names. If you had offered me 3rd place before a ball was kicked that season I would have bitten your hands off.   

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I can't believe what I'm reading here, after crap we've watched for over last 20 years there's people actually slagging Trevor Francis off, ok it went a bit pear shaped at end but this man contributed to the best Sheffield Wednesday team in my lifetime of watching us.

 

It might have been Big Ron's team at start but he did bring in some fantastic players and had us playing fantastic football, football that almost won us the title, took us into Europe and  took us to 2 cup finals beating our biggest rivals in FA Cup semi final. 

 

We were signing players who were turning down the likes of Arsenal to come and play for us. 

 

Des Walker, Chris Waddle, Chris Woods, Mark Bright, Chris Bart-Williams and not forgetting Paul Warhurst who we signed as a defender and Francis spotted his potential of being a striker, these players could walk into any other team in Premier League. How many times have we been able to say this about our players? 

 

And besides being manager let's not forget what a fantastic player Francis was for us even though it was towards end of his playing career. 

Even after Francis left we did reasonably well under Pleat who also had us playing some great football with signing players like Di Canio. 

The rot set in after Big Ron got pushed second time round and we appointed Danny Wilson who hadn't a clue how to deal with players like Di Canio and brought in players who were either not good enough or just didn't care. 

 

Are some posters just trying to wind others up to keep us interested? :huh:

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10 minutes ago, bradowl said:

I can't believe what I'm reading here, after crap we've watched for over last 20 years there's people actually slagging Trevor Francis off, ok it went a bit pear shaped at end but this man contributed to the best Sheffield Wednesday team in my lifetime of watching us.

 

It might have been Big Ron's team at start but he did bring in some fantastic players and had us playing fantastic football, football that almost won us the title, took us into Europe and  took us to 2 cup finals beating our biggest rivals in FA Cup semi final. 

 

We were signing players who were turning down the likes of Arsenal to come and play for us. 

 

Des Walker, Chris Waddle, Chris Woods, Mark Bright, Chris Bart-Williams and not forgetting Paul Warhurst who we signed as a defender and Francis spotted his potential of being a striker, these players could walk into any other team in Premier League. How many times have we been able to say this about our players? 

 

And besides being manager let's not forget what a fantastic player Francis was for us even though it was towards end of his playing career. 

Even after Francis left we did reasonably well under Pleat who also had us playing some great football with signing players like Di Canio. 

The rot set in after Big Ron got pushed second time round and we appointed Danny Wilson who hadn't a clue how to deal with players like Di Canio and brought in players who were either not good enough or just didn't care. 

 

Are some posters just trying to wind others up to keep us interested? :huh:

I think you've hit the nail on the head with the last sentence.

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1 hour ago, bradowl said:

I can't believe what I'm reading here, after crap we've watched for over last 20 years there's people actually slagging Trevor Francis off, ok it went a bit pear shaped at end but this man contributed to the best Sheffield Wednesday team in my lifetime of watching us.

 

It might have been Big Ron's team at start but he did bring in some fantastic players and had us playing fantastic football, football that almost won us the title, took us into Europe and  took us to 2 cup finals beating our biggest rivals in FA Cup semi final. 

 

We were signing players who were turning down the likes of Arsenal to come and play for us. 

 

Des Walker, Chris Waddle, Chris Woods, Mark Bright, Chris Bart-Williams and not forgetting Paul Warhurst who we signed as a defender and Francis spotted his potential of being a striker, these players could walk into any other team in Premier League. How many times have we been able to say this about our players? 

 

And besides being manager let's not forget what a fantastic player Francis was for us even though it was towards end of his playing career. 

Even after Francis left we did reasonably well under Pleat who also had us playing some great football with signing players like Di Canio. 

The rot set in after Big Ron got pushed second time round and we appointed Danny Wilson who hadn't a clue how to deal with players like Di Canio and brought in players who were either not good enough or just didn't care. 

 

Are some posters just trying to wind others up to keep us interested? :huh:

This weeks world cup rewind showed an attacking, skilful dutch side edge out Argentina. Watching it reminded me we actually had Wim Jonk in our ranks, looked good in patches, but another waste of money.

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This entire thread reminds me of a kid turning up to the playing fields with a new football under his arm then flatly refusing to let anyone play with it despite repeated requests........and this is from the site administrator (or whatever), jeez.

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10 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

YES!

 

My point still stands though mate


Francis left the club in a way way worse position than the day he took on the managers job

 

so by that logic you must think Dave Jones is a messiah for finishing a division above where he took over.

 

ps, did Trevor used to pinch your dinner money at break time?

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4 hours ago, bradowl said:

I can't believe what I'm reading here, after crap we've watched for over last 20 years there's people actually slagging Trevor Francis off, ok it went a bit pear shaped at end but this man contributed to the best Sheffield Wednesday team in my lifetime of watching us.

 

It might have been Big Ron's team at start but he did bring in some fantastic players and had us playing fantastic football, football that almost won us the title, took us into Europe and  took us to 2 cup finals beating our biggest rivals in FA Cup semi final. 

 

We were signing players who were turning down the likes of Arsenal to come and play for us. 

 

Des Walker, Chris Waddle, Chris Woods, Mark Bright, Chris Bart-Williams and not forgetting Paul Warhurst who we signed as a defender and Francis spotted his potential of being a striker, these players could walk into any other team in Premier League. How many times have we been able to say this about our players? 

 

And besides being manager let's not forget what a fantastic player Francis was for us even though it was towards end of his playing career. 

Even after Francis left we did reasonably well under Pleat who also had us playing some great football with signing players like Di Canio. 

The rot set in after Big Ron got pushed second time round and we appointed Danny Wilson who hadn't a clue how to deal with players like Di Canio and brought in players who were either not good enough or just didn't care. 

 

Are some posters just trying to wind others up to keep us interested? :huh:

Shhhh the OP knows best 

By his logic Francis was a terrible manager and Pressman was terrible player

But yet Lee Bullen is a club legend in his eyes :duntmatter:

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11 hours ago, toppOwl said:

This entire thread reminds me of a kid turning up to the playing fields with a new football under his arm then flatly refusing to let anyone play with it despite repeated requests........and this is from the site administrator (or whatever), jeez.


 

What you on about?

 

Utterly incorrect post mate 

 

 

 


Owlstalk Shop

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, WelshOwl74 said:

Shhhh the OP knows best 

By his logic Francis was a terrible manager and Pressman was terrible player

But yet Lee Bullen is a club legend in his eyes :duntmatter:


 

Francis won NOTHING as a manager 

He left the club in a mess 


Pressman - towards the end, strikers knew to just pass the ball down low to his left or right knowing if they did it would be a goal. 
 

Bullen - keep hating on him mate. Keep mocking. In years to come people will see the contribution he’s made. Winning captain, played in every single outfield position, coach, assistant manager, and stints as actual manager. The only thing he’s not done is physio. But keep mocking I don’t care!

 


Owlstalk Shop

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, matt68owls said:

 

so by that logic you must think Dave Jones is a messiah for finishing a division above where he took over.

 

ps, did Trevor used to pinch your dinner money at break time?


lol

 

No! It just irritates me that people don’t see how he wrecked our squad and left the club on a tragic downward spiral

 

Just my opinion and I’m glad to be proven wrong as always but heard nothing in this thread yet to say I’m wrong.

 

As for the only posting stuff to keep more owlstalk readers coming well that’s always a sign that people have nothing else to offer to the debate. Water off a ducks back and incorrect. We don’t need more more owlstalk readers, aren’t chasing it and it’s always a lack of facts to add to a debate when anyone comes out with that one

 

lol

 

 


Owlstalk Shop

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, @owlstalk said:


lol

 

No! It just irritates me that people don’t see how he wrecked our squad and left the club on a tragic downward spiral

 

Just my opinion and I’m glad to be proven wrong as always but heard nothing in this thread yet to say I’m wrong.

 

As for the only posting stuff to keep more owlstalk readers coming well that’s always a sign that people have nothing else to offer to the debate. Water off a ducks back and incorrect. We don’t need more more owlstalk readers, aren’t chasing it and it’s always a lack of facts to add to a debate when anyone comes out with that one

 

lol

 

Maybe you are on the wind up? I don’t know, but to me you are making out Francis is one of our worst ever managers. 
Im surprised that one of the Francis haters hasn’t come up with the theory that it was his fault we lost the 93 replay eg When Merson pinged  over the corner, Francis stood up from the bench and waved at Woods, thus momentarily distracting him which caused him to let in the goal 🤯

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7 minutes ago, sexpistol said:

Maybe you are on the wind up? I don’t know


No wind up at all

 

Francis won nothing, achieved nothing, took over a great squad, mis- managed it, started replacing quality with awful players, lost form as a result of the poor man management and aqcuisitions, and got sacked


 

 


Owlstalk Shop

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

Francis... achieved nothing

 

Only one Wednesday manager in the last 90 years matched his finish of 3rd in the entire country and none have made both domestic cup finals, never mind in the same season. The much venerated Atkinson was only able to finish 3rd in the division below.

 

Tough crowd.

 

22 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

Francis... started replacing quality with awful players

 

That's true, but we went from signing established internationals like Woods, Walker, Sinton, Petrescu and Waddle (twice breaking our previous record fee paid) to the likes of Nolan, Atherton, Coleman and Pearce. The club was clearly struggling to keep up financially and this impacted the market we were shopping in.

 

But you know all that.

 

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16 hours ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Woods blew it in the big games and that stands out. His cup final mistake was unforgivable but the majority of games over two seasons he was among the top keepers in the country. 

Jemson I agree wasn't a great signing but from what I remember at the time it seemed more of a stop gap move to cover injuries as the season was well underway at the time.

Warhurst I maintain did a decent job at centre-back and it was only in his second season that he moved forward. He is probably one of the biggest transfer profits we have made on a player which tells its own story!

By the time he had moved into attack in 92-93 we did need another CB but sqauds weren't as big as they are now and having Pearson, Shirtliff and Anderson injured at the same crucial time was typical luck as far as Wednesday injuries over the years are concerned.

 

I still think that we were far from the biggest attraction going into the top flight in the summer of 1991 and so were never going to attract loads of big names. If you had offered me 3rd place before a ball was kicked that season I would have bitten your hands off.   

Agree Woods was a good shot stopper and also at one v ones; it was just that physical side, dominating in the air at crosses / corners where he came up short.

We shouldn't have been spending 800k on stop gap players (Jemson) and also where was the strategy, the planning for what if one of Hirsty or Williams gets injured?  For me that is one area where we should have spent most of our budget ahead of the season.

I'm in no way saying Warhusr wasn't a good signing.  I thought Warhusr was a great player; that period when he played up front was just brilliant to watch.  He really should have been first choice striker going into the cup finals tho that is possibly with the benefit of hindsight as Hirsty was always going to be the number one for me.

I think we could have attracted a top drawer manager in 91; we had done so before as a third diviosn team when Big Jack joined and again we were in a bit of a mess when Big Ron joined albeit as a first division side.Didn't we enquire about Dalglish but he wouldn't come to Hillsborough?  So I don't think Francis was first choice.

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3 minutes ago, York_Owl said:

We shouldn't have been spending 800k on stop gap players (Jemson) and also where was the strategy, the planning for what if one of Hirsty or Williams gets injured? 

 

Haven't you just answered your own question? Jemson was making a bit of a name for himself at the time and was on the face of it a decent signing. As it turned out, apart from a spell towards the end of his time here, he didn't work out. But that's a different issue. We also had Gordon Watson who turned out to be the better option in the long run. 

 

14 minutes ago, York_Owl said:

I thought Warhusr was a great player; that period when he played up front was just brilliant to watch.  He really should have been first choice striker going into the cup finals tho that is possibly with the benefit of hindsight as Hirsty was always going to be the number one for me.

 

He started the first up front, but we lost our first three centre backs to injury so had little option but to move him back. Made much more sense to bring in Hirst up front instead of someone like Watts or Stewart in defence.

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