OwlsMan1961 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 I will never forgive tricky Trev for buying (at a handsome fee no less), that chuffin big soft goalkeeper called Chris Woods, he was awful, I can even remember an episode of Taggart which showed a clip from a Glasgow derby and the aforementioned Woods flapped at one which resulted in a goal, study him carefully in any clips where we conceded with him in goal and you will wonder until the day you die how he ever played for England ..... rant over ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted May 20, 2020 Author Share Posted May 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, WelshOwl74 said: I'd like to live in a world where Sheffield Wednesday finishing 3rd, 7th twice, in Europe and two Cup finals again Well that's an easy one to fix Just get Big Ron to set up the squad, instill a culture, get em flying and sit back and enjoy... 1 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 33 minutes ago, OwlsMan1961 said: I will never forgive tricky Trev for buying (at a handsome fee no less), that chuffin big soft goalkeeper called Chris Woods, he was awful, I can even remember an episode of Taggart which showed a clip from a Glasgow derby and the aforementioned Woods flapped at one which resulted in a goal, study him carefully in any clips where we conceded with him in goal and you will wonder until the day you die how he ever played for England ..... rant over ! Woods was an excellent shot-stopper with great reflexes. So I can't go along with "awful". When the ball was in the air however, you did find yourself wondering if he was actually legally blind. It looked like he was trying to guess where the ball was. And he was certainly "soft" as well. I remember the crowd getting on his back once after a fairy impression led to an opponent's goal and you could visibly see him wilting under the criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 (edited) 49 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: Well that's an easy one to fix Just get Big Ron to set up the squad, instill a culture, get em flying and sit back and enjoy... Funnily enough, having left us for Villa and taken them to title runners-up, the next season they finished 10th. He was sacked the following November following a run of 1 point from 9 games and just 10 points from the first 14 league matches. Edited May 20, 2020 by DJMortimer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwlsMan1961 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, DJMortimer said: Woods was an excellent shot-stopper with great reflexes. So I can't go along with "awful". When the ball was in the air however, you did find yourself wondering if he was actually legally blind. It looked like he was trying to guess where the ball was. And he was certainly "soft" as well. I remember the crowd getting on his back once after a fairy impression led to an opponent's goal and you could visibly see him wilting under the criticism. That pathetic attempt to stop Lineghans header at Wembley in 1993 alone makes him awful in my book, looked like he was trying to stop it hitting his face, and coming off his line he was poor too, hesitant and scared, most keepers we have had have been decent shot stoppers it's a minimum to ask of a goalkeeper really, like I said watch some of the clips of him, I reckon a better keeper might have just been the difference back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
York_Owl Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 17 minutes ago, DJMortimer said: Funnily enough, having left us for Villa and taken them to title runners-up, the next season they finished 10th. He was sacked the following November following a run of 1 point from 9 games and just 10 points from the first 14 league matches. He also won the league cup in 96 five years after he first took over. The last trophy they have won not unlike us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexpistol Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 6 hours ago, @owlstalk said: Sssshhhhh I think I'm winning in this thread so far mate But you’re not though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexpistol Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 2 hours ago, DJMortimer said: Woods was an excellent shot-stopper with great reflexes. So I can't go along with "awful". When the ball was in the air however, you did find yourself wondering if he was actually legally blind. It looked like he was trying to guess where the ball was. And he was certainly "soft" as well. I remember the crowd getting on his back once after a fairy impression led to an opponent's goal and you could visibly see him wilting under the criticism. Woods ( and I’m no fan) was generally a good shot stopper, however I still to this day can’t fathom how he got that header all wrong in the FA replay. It was a header straight at him and his reaction was all wrong. A Sunday league keeper would be expected to save that header. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 1 minute ago, sexpistol said: Woods ( and I’m no fan) was generally a good shot stopper, however I still to this day can’t fathom how he got that header all wrong in the FA replay. It was a header straight at him and his reaction was all wrong. A Sunday league keeper would be expected to save that header. I seem to recall him saying he was caught between catching it and tipping it over the bar, and ended up doing neither. Having played in goal a bit I can identify with that split-second indecision resulting in the ball going by. So, no doubt that makes you feel better then after all these years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 9 hours ago, @owlstalk said: To be fair I think if I'd inherited Big Ron's side I would have had good results The team basically ran itself back then Didn't need a man manager then did we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 8 hours ago, @owlstalk said: Oooooffff Ronnie hits back with a slam dunk of a post BLOWING AWAY the theory that Francis should be deemed as some kind of hero for his signings By the same token if Pleat signed some good players after Francis left and you agree with this, how are you blaming our relegation on Francis 5 years after he left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexpistol Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, DJMortimer said: I seem to recall him saying he was caught between catching it and tipping it over the bar, and ended up doing neither. Having played in goal a bit I can identify with that split-second indecision resulting in the ball going by. So, no doubt that makes you feel better then after all these years? But he initially went to go down, then realised too late the header wasn’t downward. Interesting you say you’ve seen/ heard Woods comments on that goal.Id love to read them as Ive never seen anything from him regarding that mistake. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 7 hours ago, York_Owl said: Big Ron had put together the side that would enable us to compete in the top flight for the next few seasons. We'd just beaten Man Utd in the Cup Final who went on to beat Barcelona in the Cup Winners Cup. We were a quality side already! In the 91-92 season Francis spent 2 million on Woods and Jemson who didn't really improve the xi or, at least that 2 million could have been spent on other players who could have made a significant difference. Even the signing of Warhust (750K) was as a centre back in that 91-92 season and I would argue, that despite being a great footballer, his inclusion at centre back, if anything, actually weakened the team. I thought Pearson and Shirtliff was a better combination and even one of Anderson or Palmer if there were injuries etc. So that's the best part of 3 million spent without significantly improving the team. We had a great opportunity to win more trophies post Big Ron, possibly even a league title and, whilst Francis came very close in 93 we ultimately ended up with nothing. And I do think that with a better managerial choice at the time we would have ended up with more than just that League Cup that Big Ron won. We were a goalkeeping error and a sitter missed away from winning the FA Cup, even the Arsenal players admit we should have won the replay. You can't direct that at the manager. We finished 3rd in the first division the season after we finished 3rd in the 2nd division under Atkinson. The amount of games Anderson and Shirtliff went onto play suggested Warhurst was needed and he played well as a defender, it was then Francis who made the decision to play him up top. Notice you don't mention Waddle when referring to his initial signings. In 1993-95 he replaced the likes of Palmer, Worthington, Nilsson, Pearson, Wilson with inferior players and had lost the dressing room so it was probably the right time to bring it to an end but there is nothing concrete to suggest that a different manager could have got a team that were promoted from the 2nd division in 3rd place to any higher than 3rd place in the top flight the following season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 2 hours ago, OwlsMan1961 said: ......, looked like he was trying to stop it hitting his face, and coming off his line he was poor too, hesitant and scared.... "Ron told them in the team talk, "first 5 minutes bang a few in the box and let big Cyrille give him a bump. He'll not be bother coming for anything after that." It was common knowledge in the game that Woodsie didn't like the physical side" Andy Gray "We had no where near their budget or squad. But you do what you can. Their keeper , Woods, didnt like big forwards, so I'd been hammering Deano all week to make sure he jumped him on corners and high balls. He scared him to death." Dave Bassett 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 3 hours ago, DJMortimer said: Woods was an excellent shot-stopper with great reflexes. So I can't go along with "awful". When the ball was in the air however, you did find yourself wondering if he was actually legally blind. It looked like he was trying to guess where the ball was. And he was certainly "soft" as well. I remember the crowd getting on his back once after a fairy impression led to an opponent's goal and you could visibly see him wilting under the criticism. Yep, in 1991-92 & 92-93 Woods helped us win a fair few points but he was notoriously poor on crosses and seemed to make errors in high profile games like the derbies and the cup final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 3 hours ago, DJMortimer said: Funnily enough, having left us for Villa and taken them to title runners-up, the next season they finished 10th. He was sacked the following November following a run of 1 point from 9 games and just 10 points from the first 14 league matches. 2 hours ago, York_Owl said: He also won the league cup in 96 five years after he first took over. The last trophy they have won not unlike us. Which part of Atkinson being sacked at Aston Villa in November 1994 did you overlook when stating he guided them to the League Cup in 1996? Brian Little was manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
York_Owl Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 59 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: Which part of Atkinson being sacked at Aston Villa in November 1994 did you overlook when stating he guided them to the League Cup in 1996? Brian Little was manager. got that one wrong then:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 1 minute ago, York_Owl said: got that one wrong then:) No worries, the fact you put it down in writing is enough for @Owlstalk to support it in this thread, another key fact that supports the debate he is clearly winning in respect of Francis being the devil incarnate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradowl Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 On 19/05/2020 at 13:56, @owlstalk said: Question for all our readers : How many players have you heard come out and say what a great manager/man-manager Trevor Francis was? Tbf I'm struggling to think of a player who slagged him off publicly. Even the Mole never revealed him sen in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
York_Owl Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 1 hour ago, hirstyboywonder said: We were a goalkeeping error and a sitter missed away from winning the FA Cup, even the Arsenal players admit we should have won the replay. You can't direct that at the manager. We finished 3rd in the first division the season after we finished 3rd in the 2nd division under Atkinson. The amount of games Anderson and Shirtliff went onto play suggested Warhurst was needed and he played well as a defender, it was then Francis who made the decision to play him up top. Notice you don't mention Waddle when referring to his initial signings. In 1993-95 he replaced the likes of Palmer, Worthington, Nilsson, Pearson, Wilson with inferior players and had lost the dressing room so it was probably the right time to bring it to an end but there is nothing concrete to suggest that a different manager could have got a team that were promoted from the 2nd division in 3rd place to any higher than 3rd place in the top flight the following season. I didn't think Warhust did play that well as a defender. Looked great carrying the ballout of defence (Leeds away 1-1, 91-92) but defensively made quite a lot of mistakes, rash challenges (e.g. pigs away), gave penalties away (e.g. Notts County), switched off at times (e.g. back pass v Man U at home). We did need a centre back but I think we could have got better (Jobson and Earl Barrett were first choice at Oldham ahead of Warhurst). I actually think Earl Barrett would have been a good signing (in 91 not 98 when we did eventually sign him)! I didn't mention Waddle as he brought him in the following season 92-93. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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