Sergeant Tibbs Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Great Big Galaa said: Fair question from a negative tw@t, don’t you think? Or can’t Mr Positive give me a Positive answer? Pots and kettles. I’m looking forward to your positive post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 16 minutes ago, Sergeant Tibbs said: Pots and kettles. I’m looking forward to your positive post. I was calling myself a negative tw@t and that’s as positive a post as you’re going to get from me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Tibbs Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 11 minutes ago, Great Big Galaa said: I was calling myself a negative tw@t and that’s as positive a post as you’re going to get from me Perhaps the end of lockdown will put a smile on a few faces. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post scram Posted May 31, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2020 The thinking that we are ruining young players is pretty bizarre imo People have to realise that the general standard of an academy 3rd tier U23 team is probably around Northern Premier standard - U18's significantly below that The non leagues are full of ex academy players who didn't cut it Around 1% of academy graduates actually cut through at the level of the academy they were at - and that is heavily skewed by the productive academies such as Chelsea and Saints So that means that taking out the outliers who are productive then the success rate of everybody else at producing a player is vanishingly small I have watched a lot of youth team football over many years - and the thought that most of the players have any type of chance of a pro career is ridiculous The vast majority of players in academy football are there to provide a vehicle for the one or two who may have a chance - every player no matter how brilliant needs water carriers to help them shine The vast majority of academy players - even at 23 and especially 18 level are water carriers the professional game is literally a completely different entity 10 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 Just now, scram said: The thinking that we are ruining young players is pretty bizarre imo People have to realise that the general standard of an academy 3rd tier U23 team is probably around Northern Premier standard - U18's significantly below that The non leagues are full of ex academy players who didn't cut it Around 1% of academy graduates actually cut through at the level of the academy they were at - and that is heavily skewed by the productive academies such as Chelsea and Saints So that means that taking out the outliers who are productive then the success rate of everybody else at producing a player is vanishingly small I have watched a lot of youth team football over many years - and the thought that most of the players have any type of chance of a pro career is ridiculous The vast majority of players in academy football are there to provide a vehicle for the one or two who may have a chance - every player no matter how brilliant needs water carriers to help them shine The vast majority of academy players - even at 23 and especially 18 level are water carriers the professional game is literally a completely different entity the games I have seen at 23 level are a million miles from 1st team level …..you get the odd good performance from someone that catches your eye but there few and far between . ….some ive seen mentioned as being 1st team material are laughable as is also that we should loan them out to a league 1 or 2 club as if theyd be queuing up to sign em ……. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhForAnotherShez Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 "The vast majority of players in academy football are there to provide a vehicle for the one or two who may have a chance - every player no matter how brilliant needs water carriers to help them shine". Spot on Scram!!!! The supporter likes to see their teams at the top of their leagues. However the REAL value to the club is just a player who makes it sucessfully to the first team, not a successful team with no-one who goes further. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddogbob Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 1 hour ago, scram said: The thinking that we are ruining young players is pretty bizarre imo People have to realise that the general standard of an academy 3rd tier U23 team is probably around Northern Premier standard - U18's significantly below that The non leagues are full of ex academy players who didn't cut it Around 1% of academy graduates actually cut through at the level of the academy they were at - and that is heavily skewed by the productive academies such as Chelsea and Saints So that means that taking out the outliers who are productive then the success rate of everybody else at producing a player is vanishingly small I have watched a lot of youth team football over many years - and the thought that most of the players have any type of chance of a pro career is ridiculous The vast majority of players in academy football are there to provide a vehicle for the one or two who may have a chance - every player no matter how brilliant needs water carriers to help them shine The vast majority of academy players - even at 23 and especially 18 level are water carriers the professional game is literally a completely different entity So so true. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malek Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 2 hours ago, scram said: The thinking that we are ruining young players is pretty bizarre imo People have to realise that the general standard of an academy 3rd tier U23 team is probably around Northern Premier standard - U18's significantly below that The non leagues are full of ex academy players who didn't cut it Around 1% of academy graduates actually cut through at the level of the academy they were at - and that is heavily skewed by the productive academies such as Chelsea and Saints So that means that taking out the outliers who are productive then the success rate of everybody else at producing a player is vanishingly small I have watched a lot of youth team football over many years - and the thought that most of the players have any type of chance of a pro career is ridiculous The vast majority of players in academy football are there to provide a vehicle for the one or two who may have a chance - every player no matter how brilliant needs water carriers to help them shine The vast majority of academy players - even at 23 and especially 18 level are water carriers the professional game is literally a completely different entity You know where I come from and that we have less people in our country then you have registrated footballers ? You know that one Premiership club spends more on yourh development then all of our clubs got together ? Yet, in last 20 years we finished 3'rd and 2'nd in World Cup while constantly producing talented young players . Can't you accept that you are doing it wrong and that your system is flowed ?! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 49 minutes ago, malek said: You know where I come from and that we have less people in our country then you have registrated footballers ? You know that one Premiership club spends more on yourh development then all of our clubs got together ? Yet, in last 20 years we finished 3'rd and 2'nd in World Cup while constantly producing talented young players . Can't you accept that you are doing it wrong and that your system is flowed ?! F*cking hell You of all people! How many times have i said that youth development in this country is totally f*cked? Our system is totally flawed and i have said it multiple times And nothing in that negates anything i have said in this thread about our lack of productivity as a club 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malek Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 11 hours ago, scram said: F*cking hell You of all people! How many times have i said that youth development in this country is totally f*cked? Our system is totally flawed and i have said it multiple times And nothing in that negates anything i have said in this thread about our lack of productivity as a club Sorry Scram, Last line wasn't aimed at you, but in general. I remember everything you wrote on here over the years on the topic and I feel that we mostly agree. However, I can't agree that 99% of academy players can't be developed in professional footballers. I'm certain that talent is there, but that in key time of their development they are not handled right and in turn "ruined". Considering going rate for fairly talented young English footballer I'm shocked more clubs beyond Premiership level are not playing more youngsters in hope of making a quick buck. I also can't believe that managers of most English clubs are not deemed responsible for developing youth talent. Next to getting results this should be important job of every manager. Alex Ferguson wrote wisely in his autobiography that how he grew older he understood more how important it is to build for the future. I've seen around 30 Premiere League games last couple of months. Talent is certainly there, somewhere one or two players, somewhere more. It will interesting to see how many of those will get fair chance at their clubs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grez Bez Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 I don't think anyone would think that our system isn't broken There are two main factors for me. The reliance on foreign players - hard to fix without setting rules on homegrown players which I've never liked. The squad sizes of premier League clubs - this should be a maximum of 25. Everyone else should be released and as a result they play down the league's. It strengthens the EFL whilst giving youngsters a chance. Chelsea having 90 players on load is insane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) In a curtailed season for the development squads, it’s fair to say that nobody has really pushed themselves to the fore, when it comes to breaking through to the first team. The nearest is probably Hunt who has shown some signs of promise, and probably merits keeping the squad place he earned last year. There are a few who have maintained steady progress, without ever showing they are ready to step up None of this is of course unusual, but you are always looking for that one who makes giant strides with performances that demand their inclusion in the first team set up I had forgotten Urhoghide of course, but he hasn’t really been too involved with the development squad this year Edited June 4, 2020 by gurujuan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch McLovin Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 hour ago, gurujuan said: In a curtailed season for the development squads, it’s fair to say that nobody has really pushed themselves to the fore, when it comes to breaking through to the first team. The nearest is probably Hunt who has shown some signs of promise, and probably merits keeping the squad place he earned last year. There are a few who have maintained steady progress, without ever showing they are ready to step up None of this is of course unusual, but you are always looking for that one who makes giant strides with performances that demand their inclusion in the first team set up I had forgotten Urhoghide of course, but he hasn’t really been too involved with the development squad this year Thing is no one really knows unless there given a go, and at an age what is right for the player... throwing him in too early could ruin him as could blooding them too late. I always think of the Tommy Spurr situation, was told his contract wouldnt be renewed as he wasnt good enough as a youngster, we then have an injury crisis and were forced to throw him into the first 11, he performs very well earns himself a contract and goes on to have a successful championship career. This could have gone so differently if he had just been released, struggled to get a league club, play a bit of non league and drift out. Its all about chances. From what i have seen of the players Liam Shaw, Liam Waldock and Alex Hunt seem to have the ability. Unfortunately we cant play all of them as there all CM players. With our current situation, Monk (wrongly) has got rid of Hutchinson. He now has given Pelupessy a new contract who is so unaffected. I would play Waldock in all the remaining fixtures this season. He is a DM which we dont have. There are no fans to get on his back at the first under hit pass. We were getting battered before this so there is no expectations. This will give him a chance to see if he can grow into a first team player. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 48 minutes ago, Dutch McLovin said: Thing is no one really knows unless there given a go, and at an age what is right for the player... throwing him in too early could ruin him as could blooding them too late. I always think of the Tommy Spurr situation, was told his contract wouldnt be renewed as he wasnt good enough as a youngster, we then have an injury crisis and were forced to throw him into the first 11, he performs very well earns himself a contract and goes on to have a successful championship career. This could have gone so differently if he had just been released, struggled to get a league club, play a bit of non league and drift out. Its all about chances. From what i have seen of the players Liam Shaw, Liam Waldock and Alex Hunt seem to have the ability. Unfortunately we cant play all of them as there all CM players. With our current situation, Monk (wrongly) has got rid of Hutchinson. He now has given Pelupessy a new contract who is so unaffected. I would play Waldock in all the remaining fixtures this season. He is a DM which we dont have. There are no fans to get on his back at the first under hit pass. We were getting battered before this so there is no expectations. This will give him a chance to see if he can grow into a first team player. It’s true that players will develop at different speeds, and I’m certainly not writing off any of our youngsters. Hunt was like a rabbit caught in the headlights, when played last season, but his brief appearances this season show that he has progressed, and probably merits his place in the squad. Other young midfielders such as Shaw, Waldock and Grant, have shown promise, but probably lack the consistency to lay claim to a squad spot at the moment. As you say though, sometimes you never know what a player is capable of, until you throw them in ( Mel Sterland ) Hopefully the club will make the right decisions, perhaps sending them out on loan, or if we are operating with a smaller squad, management may want to keep them around in case they are needed 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etchesketch Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Have the Us23s like STobbs, Joe West, Damba actually left the club or are they still here until the season ends. Thinking of the first team if out of contract players don't play plus 9 on the bench wouldn't it make sense for them to be here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 24 minutes ago, Etchesketch said: Have the Us23s like STobbs, Joe West, Damba actually left the club or are they still here until the season ends. Thinking of the first team if out of contract players don't play plus 9 on the bench wouldn't it make sense for them to be here? If we’re having in-house practice games you would imagine the u23’s/u18’s would be available for training? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etchesketch Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 30 minutes ago, Jim said: If we’re having in-house practice games you would imagine the u23’s/u18’s would be available for training? Yes but what about the ones who were told a few weeks ago that their contract wasn't going to be renewed. Did they leave with immediate effect or do they stay until the first teams season ends? Jack Stobbs announced on Twitter that he was leaving but there were a lot out of contract and \I would have thought that quite a few would also be getting released as was the case last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smackavolley Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 They'll have left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Etchesketch said: Yes but what about the ones who were told a few weeks ago that their contract wasn't going to be renewed. Did they leave with immediate effect or do they stay until the first teams season ends? Jack Stobbs announced on Twitter that he was leaving but there were a lot out of contract and \I would have thought that quite a few would also be getting released as was the case last year. I was thinking more about the players who are still under contract for next season but having said that I’d like to bet they will struggle to field 2 or 3 teams with the players available? Edited June 6, 2020 by Jim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Wouldn't be surprised if we arrange a game or 2 against a premier team There's only Pl and Champs teams training and wanting to play friendlies - and neither will want to play another team from the same division Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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