Moral Vacuum

[Sergeant Tibbs]

5 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

Ahh I missed that as speed reading - sorry mate.

I've not heard of others but that doesn't mean they're not donating or contributing.

Some people do charity stuff privately without the need for filming themselves doing it or getting in the press.

I'd like to think the majority of our players are all contributing something somewhere and happy to give them the benefit of doubt totally.

I’d love to think there’s more than one Dirk Kuyt, but cynicism takes over.

[sage owl]

33 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

So you basically just throw away every single point I've made and rant 'footballers get paid too much'

 

As football fans we have Sky Sports and contribute to the growth of the sport. 

How many football fans have said 'right sod it. I"m not going to do this anymore and I'm not going to play my part in the greed of this football business anymore' and cancelled their Sky Sports packages?

Ps - how much do F1 drivers and World Champion Boxers earn out of interest?

Sport = MONEY led now, and it seems too far gone to pull it back.

Ranting about how much footballers earn seems like peeing in the wind to me.

I've never had sky .

[Brommers]

1 hour ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

Because I cannot understand the logic

Someone sat in their house in Sheffield, isolating during Covid 19 outbreak, decides to point their frustrations at footballers simply because they earn more money than most do.

It defies logic.

What benefit would you see from all our players forfeiting their wages?

None. 

None at all.

So why even think about footballers and how much money they earn?

What about the highly paid bankers who crashed the economy yet still earn eye watering amounts?

Why not target the bankers?

What about the huge bonuses paid to company CEO's whilst they pay people minimum wage or worse?

Why not target those CEO's?

What about the companies like Amazon, Facebook, Starbucks etc who don't pay tax in this country despite making staggering amounts of money from the Uk?

If those companies paid their fair share of tax then this country would be LOADED

Why not focus on those companies? 

The amount you could bring in from those companies just paying their taxes would make footballers wages look like spare change in your pocket.

That's why I can't understand someone sat at home deciding to target footballers and suggesting that somehow giving up their wages would make anything any better.

Makes zero sense to me.

I get a bit fed up of knocking "bankers". I've worked for one for over 30 years. There's probably less than 0.1% of them responsible for the bad decisions that led to the crash. Many are now working on the front line serving customers, putting themselves at potential risk during the current crisis. Many others are working ridiculously long hours to put things in place to support the various schemes announced by the government, an absolutely massive undertaking. Also, the UK banks make a huge contribution in corporation taxes.

So yes, a few are worthy of your criticism like some "fat cat" CEOs but the vast majority are hard working and dedicated.

Sorry to sound off as I'm sure you weren't directing the criticism at all "bankers" but it just annoys me when the term is liberally used like that.

God  I really shouldn't post when I've been drinking.

[@owlstalk]

4 minutes ago, Brommers said:

I get a bit fed up of knocking "bankers". I've worked for one for over 30 years. There's probably less than 0.1% of them responsible for the bad decisions that led to the crash. Many are now working on the front line serving customers, putting themselves at potential risk during the current crisis. Many others are working ridiculously long hours to put things in place to support the various schemes announced by the government, an absolutely massive undertaking. Also, the UK banks make a huge contribution in corporation taxes.

So yes, a few are worthy of your criticism like some "fat cat" CEOs but the vast majority are hard working and dedicated.

Sorry to sound off as I'm sure you weren't directing the criticism at all "bankers" but it just annoys me when the term is liberally used like that.

God  I really shouldn't post when I've been drinking.

 

 

Yeah fair points

 

I guess really by saying bankers what you apply instead are  all the others in life who are making millions who don’t play football.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

Got ya

Absolutely mindblowing the state football has got itself into isn't it?

What a mess

And the industry says to clubs 'you're only allowed to lose £30 million pounds' and we get angrymad at that.

Shows how conditioned we have become as football fans to the absolute lunacy of it all 
 

 

Agree with this. Plenty of us, myself included have said at some stage that the owner should be allowed to spend what he wants and shouldn't be restricted by P&S. 

The reality is that would more likely rack up more debts for clubs at this level as they continue to chase 'the dream of promotion' which only a few can achieve. Players would get paid even more than they do already.

 

But P&S regulations can only work if they are effectively managed. The EFL know that the majority of clubs in the Championship spend more than 100% of their earnings on player salaries. P&S rules can't work if that is the case and they also give a significant advantage to clubs relegated from the PL.

 

A club wage cap might work but the problem with that is the players and PFA are unlikely to agree to it and the EFL would be reluctant to enforce it as it would likely devalue their product if the best players simply chose to move to other leagues with no restrictions on their income.

 

Going back to the issue of salaries being paid to players at the moment, you have mentioned a deferral which as you would say would only help cashflow short-term. I agree this wouldn't make much of a difference overall and would expect players to consider a temporary reduction considering they aren't doing the job they get paid to do and many workers in the country have been subject to a 20% wage cut at a maximum of £2,500 per month. 

[Brommers]

54 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

I've seen players doing their stuff in the community during this lockdown 

SWFC have published news of our players doing some great things within their communities.

Just saying 'we will save our wages for three months and get it then' means nothing in reality. It's not a sacrifice, it's not making anyone better off, it's not even that worthwhile if you think about it.

If the general public thinks that Adthe Nuhiu and his team mates saying to Chansiri "Save us our wages up Chairman and give it to us in three months time" makes them better soldiers of the fight against Covid 19 then I'd be asking questions about the public's logic and mentality

Well maybe they should be saying, we'll take a 50% hit on our wages so you (the club) can afford to pay other staff their (very small by comparison) wages. 

I think one of the bigger arguments within football is that we are going to lose a number of clubs due to this crisis, but were the players in the top 2 divisions to give up a percentage of their wages to help the football family, then the football pyramid would be in a much healthier position. 

[Brommers]

56 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

So you basically just throw away every single point I've made and rant 'footballers get paid too much'

 

As football fans we have Sky Sports and contribute to the growth of the sport. 

How many football fans have said 'right sod it. I"m not going to do this anymore and I'm not going to play my part in the greed of this football business anymore' and cancelled their Sky Sports packages?

Ps - how much do F1 drivers and World Champion Boxers earn out of interest?

Sport = MONEY led now, and it seems too far gone to pull it back.

Ranting about how much footballers earn seems like peeing in the wind to me.

Because those sportsmen are the absolute pinnacle in their field and put their lives at risk every time they compete. Far too many bang average/poo footballers getting paid >£1m a season.

[Swiss Toni]

Thought this was the start of the random names who may join us for next season. He sounds pretty cool, is he Dutch?

[Guest LondonOwl313]

13 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

Yeah fair points

 

I guess really by saying bankers what you apply instead are  all the others in life who are making millions who don’t play football.

I think one of the points you’re missing on it is that most wealthy people are taking a hit from this already. Anyone who makes their money from capital markets have seen markets crash, an automatic 20% haircut. Hedge funds aren’t doing so well and they haven’t been for some time. A lot of the negativity around the banking sector is based around what happened between 2004-2007ish when lots of crazy decisions were made and yes, a lot of money flowed which shouldn’t have really been allowed to happen. But that’s 15 years ago now and there’s not the same money in the sector. Obviously some do get paid a wedge comparable to footballers but it’s a small percentage. And most of top bankers pay is in bonuses and share options which again they won’t get anywhere near as much right now.

 

Plus other sports people get paid per competition in prize money generally so when it’s cancelled they don’t get paid. 
 

So to my mind footballers look like a special case here because other rich people have already seen their incomes drop. They can act now or see their incomes fall anyway when the clubs all go to the wall

[Brommers]

4 minutes ago, Brommers said:

Because those sportsmen are the absolute pinnacle in their field and put their lives at risk every time they compete. Far too many bang average/poo footballers getting paid >£1m a season.

.......in addition, I don't suppose any boxers are being paid at the moment for doing nothing. Agree with your sentiment Neil but poor examples. 

Right, off to sleep now as got a busy day tomorrow staring at my window. 

[Emerson Thome]

In general I'm really surprised that so many footballers have pretty flat-rate salaries, occasionally with minor appearance and goal bonuses. I guess its a reflection of their market power.

 

But if I were a Chairman, I'd be trying to get people heavily weighted towards performance rated contracts. I'm happy for them to be generous if the players are playing well - i.e. Fletcher would have earned £50k a week this year (rather than his normal ?30-35k? as he's genuinely been one of the best players in the league, but Westwood, Rhodes, etc, would be on less than £5k (apart from one bumper week for Rhodes). It's not like a normal business where is an executive is only giving 70% then at least they are delivering some of their objectives. If a player is giving less than their best (or they are injured), they get dropped from the team. And if they're not in the team they are basically worthless. You might as well have Tango as have Keiren Westwood, if he's not on the pitch or at least on the bench.

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

3 hours ago, TINKERBELL said:

I can forget about football, but can't forget about my friends on here and love to talk to them. 

 

3 hours ago, Sergeant Tibbs said:

Take care then. Forget this lot for a bit, still be here when you’ve fully recovered.

 

A former ex is by her side to look after her, he extricated a piece for her defence from a bloke called Arthur. Arthur was the friend of a magic man. They would all gather a round a table of a Sunday afternoon and share lunch together. At this gathering one of Tinks former admirers would pass desirous glances, Peter was his name. Her current Ex was pass looks so alarming, could almost be described as dead Pan !     

[matthefish2002]

Although the figures are hard to get your head round I can make a case for the top players getting the wages they do. The players who are household names and are the ones people will still be talking in 20 years time.

I think where it has gone wrong is when you get pretty average players on absolute fortunes.

We are a mid table Championship side and have people in the reserve side on over £1m per season and asking supporters to pay £40 per game to fund it (only part fund it really). Madness!

[kobayashi]

52 minutes ago, matthefish2002 said:

Although the figures are hard to get your head round I can make a case for the top players getting the wages they do. The players who are household names and are the ones people will still be talking in 20 years time.

I think where it has gone wrong is when you get pretty average players on absolute fortunes.

We are a mid table Championship side and have people in the reserve side on over £1m per season and asking supporters to pay £40 per game to fund it (only part fund it really). Madness!

But the madness is of the clubs and owners making. No player ever signed a contract that wasn’t put in front of him by a club. If a club owner is stupid enough to offer an average player £1m per season then don’t expect the player to be stupid enough to turn it down...he won’t and neither would anyone else.

[matthefish2002]

9 minutes ago, kobayashi said:

But the madness is of the clubs and owners making. No player ever signed a contract that wasn’t put in front of him by a club. If a club owner is stupid enough to offer an average player £1m per season then don’t expect the player to be stupid enough to turn it down...he won’t and neither would anyone else.

 

I agree most of the blame rests with club owners / Chairman.

A lot of clubs are just run these days for a rich owners ego trip.

[Tracksuit]

Football as industry makes vast sums of money.
 

Football makes more working class millionaires than any other profession.

 

At the playing level it’s a total meritocracy which is something no other profession outside of sport could claim.

 

If people are upset that footballers don’t contribute enough of their salaries to public causes then perhaps they should canvas their local MP that they want the tax system re-regulating.

 

Or instead we could listen to the health secretary try & throw footballers under the bus because they earn more than NHS staff.

 

Hancock being a serving minister in a majority government...... it’s not like he’s in a position to try & do something about it...........

[Guest The Horse]

Facebook and Twitter have a lot to answer for.

Control the narrative on those platforms and you can shape the opinions of millions of the weak minded.

[Guest The Claw]

10 hours ago, bladeshater said:

Wish someone had mentioned this before

Not everyone is as smart as you

[lanzaroteowl]

10 hours ago, whatdial said:

They only get £2.5k a month though not £30k a week. I’d furlough the lot of them and pay the office and normal staff. 

 

And spend the next 18 months in court being sued by the players for breach of contract.

[sage owl]

1 hour ago, Big Rons Hairspray said:

Football as industry makes vast sums of money.
 

Football makes more working class millionaires than any other profession.

 

At the playing level it’s a total meritocracy which is something no other profession outside of sport could claim.

 

If people are upset that footballers don’t contribute enough of their salaries to public causes then perhaps they should canvas their local MP that they want the tax system re-regulating.

 

Or instead we could listen to the health secretary try & throw footballers under the bus because they earn more than NHS staff.

 

Hancock being a serving minister in a majority government...... it’s not like he’s in a position to try & do something about it...........

Tories sorting out tax evasion  / avoidance  or as it should be known theft from the state.

Your more likely to see turkeys voting for Christmas to happen twice a year.