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1 hour ago, Owling with laughter said:


Not sure exactly but found this which explains a lot.

 

https://financialfootballnews.com/category/sheffield-united/

 

Doesn't say how much the bonuses were does it. However, with the additional income and the big prize of staying in the PL, Utd's squad are reported to be on a £10M bonus this year for staying up. 

It is reasonable to think that the promotion bonus was not as high as that so even without the bonuses, the losses would have been above the £13M per season permitted by P&S rules.

 

United had total income of £22M last season. The wage bill was £41M - this includes the bonus payments but the previous season when finishing mid-table the wage bill was £20M so with an increase in salary and players added last season, the wage bill alone would still have been significantly above total income - hardly the well run ship that it was reported to be. 

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1 hour ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Doesn't say how much the bonuses were does it. However, with the additional income and the big prize of staying in the PL, Utd's squad are reported to be on a £10M bonus this year for staying up. 

It is reasonable to think that the promotion bonus was not as high as that so even without the bonuses, the losses would have been above the £13M per season permitted by P&S rules.

 

United had total income of £22M last season. The wage bill was £41M - this includes the bonus payments but the previous season when finishing mid-table the wage bill was £20M so with an increase in salary and players added last season, the wage bill alone would still have been significantly above total income - hardly the well run ship that it was reported to be. 

Nobody’s disputing they were making a loss, just that they were within permitted allowances. If they paid out £8m in promotion bonuses they would have been under the permitted £13m a season?

 

It’s not unreasonable to think that bonuses of at least that they got for staying up would have been made given the vast rewards for getting there. 

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6 minutes ago, Owling with laughter said:

Nobody’s disputing they were making a loss, just that they were within permitted allowances. If they paid out £8m in promotion bonuses they would have been under the permitted £13m a season?

 

It’s not unreasonable to think that bonuses of at least that they got for staying up would have been made given the vast rewards for getting there. 

 

It's more complicated than just £13m a season isn't it - or indeed £39m over 3 seasons which is what it was? This is quite a good explanation - albeit with a few too many Leeds references. https://www.mikethornton.xyz/new-ffp-tests/

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Apologies if it's been mentioned but has anyone seen the Dutch consortium hoping to buy an unnamed English club? If all else fails they can get their boots back on. Consortium involves Bergkamp. Larson and Davids😳

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1 hour ago, Owling with laughter said:

Nobody’s disputing they were making a loss, just that they were within permitted allowances. If they paid out £8m in promotion bonuses they would have been under the permitted £13m a season?

 

It’s not unreasonable to think that bonuses of at least that they got for staying up would have been made given the vast rewards for getting there. 

I don't know where you got your mathematical education but in my book £21.3M losses minus £8M bonuses as you suggest leaves a loss of over £13M not less than £13M.

 

The fact is Utd often portrayed the fact that they were not prepared to gamble the financial stability of the club against the quest for promotion as some Championship clubs do. Given that they lost £21.3M (minus the promotion bonus) in one year, that would certainly have been called into question if they had not been promoted.

 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, TINGLE75 said:

Apologies if it's been mentioned but has anyone seen the Dutch consortium hoping to buy an unnamed English club? If all else fails they can get their boots back on. Consortium involves Bergkamp. Larson and Davids😳


I see they previously tried and failed to buy Wycombe so I expect they are targeting league 1 clubs or below. Probably the likes of Swindon, Gillingham and Southend. Fans will spend more time watching the owners in the stand than players on the pitch :biggrin:

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37 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

I don't know where you got your mathematical education but in my book £21.3M losses minus £8M bonuses as you suggest leaves a loss of over £13M not less than £13M.

 

The fact is Utd often portrayed the fact that they were not prepared to gamble the financial stability of the club against the quest for promotion as some Championship clubs do. Given that they lost £21.3M (minus the promotion bonus) in one year, that would certainly have been called into question if they had not been promoted.

 

 

 


So depending what the bonus was, maybe £8m, maybe more maybe less, they’d have lost approximately the permitted losses. 
As I said yes it’s a loss but within the permitted allowance.
You keep quoting £21.3m as if they’d have lost that if they hadn’t gone up. They did go up and so the bonuses were paid, and they wouldn’t have lost that if they’d stayed down.

I don’t know why you’re having a hard time understanding that?

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8 minutes ago, Owling with laughter said:


So depending what the bonus was, maybe £8m, maybe more maybe less, they’d have lost approximately the permitted losses. 
As I said yes it’s a loss but within the permitted allowance.
You keep quoting £21.3m as if they’d have lost that if they hadn’t gone up. They did go up and so the bonuses were paid, and they wouldn’t have lost that if they’d stayed down.

I don’t know why you’re having a hard time understanding that?

 

Are you a Wednesday fan? Just thought I'd ask as your few posts and when you made them are interesting.

 

I have stated that even without the bonuses they would have lost above the £13M guide limit for 1 season. They had a wages/turnover ratio of 196% with the bonuses so even without them you would imagine this would be above 100%

 

Hardly the sound financial model of zero risk that was purported. 

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3 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

Are you a Wednesday fan? Just thought I'd ask as your few posts and when you made them are interesting.



Every single post you make tries to make things personal or have a pop at someone


Chill the foooooook out 

Make your post about the topic and leave the posters alone ffs

*note* I won't be replying to any reply you make to this. Just bear in mind what I've said. Ta.

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19 hours ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

I understand the sentiment of wanting a steadier ship but under Milan we were still losing £5M a season with attendances in the top 6 in the division and a budget in the bottom 6. 

Milan himself said it wasn't sustainable and would likely have just been a slower trip towards financial problems without the play-off campaigns.

 

Some point towards teams getting promoted from this division without significant overspending and the blunts were put forward as an example of this - until their 2018-19 accounts revealed a £21M loss for the year. Despite Wilder's mantra of not putting the club at risk financially it seems another season in the Championship wold probably have seen them breach the rules. 

 

I understand completely what you are saying about Milan’s level of investment and I can recall posting comments on here about how frustrating it was to see us still losing money under Milan’s tenure, but I still enjoyed Milan’s time at the helm especially whilst SG was manager. 

Essentially the finances in the Championship are completely flawed and I reckon as an owner you need to have nerves of steel to risk your hard earned in trying to get a club promoted. 

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I haven't read the 24 page thread, only the OP, so this may have already been posted, and you have my apologies if it already has.

 

I just came across this video on youtube, so after reading the OP I thought Id give it a watch. 

 

I've never ever heard Mike Ashley even speak before, but after listening to this video in full, I have to say that I'm impressed with him.

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, steelerian said:

 

 

I haven't read the 24 page thread, only the OP, so this may have already been posted, and you have my apologies if it already has.

 

I just came across this video on youtube, so after reading the OP I thought Id give it a watch. 

 

I've never ever heard Mike Ashley even speak before, but after listening to this video in full, I have to say that I'm impressed with him.

 

 

 

 



Very interesting video that mate thank you for posting it


He's passionate and talking absolute sense with a wealth of experience

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48 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:



Very interesting video that mate thank you for posting it


He's passionate and talking absolute sense with a wealth of experience

Bottom line is Neil he is a businessman end of - understands how to run multi-billion pound businesses, knows the football market and all it's dark corners after so long at the helm of NUFC.

 

If and it is a big if he does take over it will be interesting for more than footballing reasons

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43 minutes ago, soldierboyblue said:

Bottom line is Neil he is a businessman end of - understands how to run multi-billion pound businesses, knows the football market and all it's dark corners after so long at the helm of NUFC.

 

If and it is a big if he does take over it will be interesting for more than footballing reasons


 

Aye most definitely

 

I ended up watching all that commons committee video posted above and listened to him with interest 

 

First time Ive heard him speak

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It will be interesting when the Newcastle takeover is finally completed what comes of this story.  Whether we like it or not the idea of Ashley buying us makes sense to have his Sports Direct sponsorships transferred to another football club. Particularly in the city of sport, historically.

 

Maybe his frugality is what we need right now. And if he hires a decent manager whilst he’s at it then that’s a bonus. 
 

Personally I prefer the idea of Ashley and Bruce than Chansiri and Monk 

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I’m really humbled that Mike Ashley sees the potential in buying us.

 

 

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On 05/05/2020 at 16:28, soldierboyblue said:

Bottom line is Neil he is a businessman end of - understands how to run multi-billion pound businesses, knows the football market and all it's dark corners after so long at the helm of NUFC.

 

If and it is a big if he does take over it will be interesting for more than footballing reasons


Indeed - plus he’d have learnt a lot at Newcastle, an even tougher club to run and manage this us.

 

He’d be unpopular as he make tough decisions but he’d probably sort out a lot of the issues with a ruthlessness that is/has been missing here for far too long.

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Whatever happens, football clubs today are a play thing for multi millionaire/billionaire egomaniacs, all with similar traits. Unfortunately, fans dont have a choice, all we can do is strap in and endure/enjoy the ride.

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