Garry Monk Sheffield Wednesday Manager

[Groundhopping Owl]

To those saying Monk needs sacking as part of a club "shake up": it's obvious Monk's plan has basically been to get through this season then make his stamp, i.e. shake things up, in the summer. Remember he arrived in September when the transfer window was shut and Bruce had decided the retained list.

 

I agree that we've been crap since Christmas and Monk has to shoulder a fair bit of the blame for that. But I also agree with those saying that our biggest problem is player power - and we're not going to dispel that by getting rid of Monk and giving the squad the impression that they've gotten DC to bin yet another head coach by downing tools.

 

Monk doesn't strike me as the type to put up with any nonsense, you could almost see the steam rising off him in recent post-match interviews, plus why else would Westwood, Hutchinson and Bates have been training with the kids? That's a good trait to have at this club and I'd give him a crack at next season - after all the shenanigans he's had to navigate at Leeds, Brum and Wednesday he might be a good man to have in charge during what may well be a very weird season.

[Owls Loyal]

All this talk of player power is invented by the Monk aopologists. 

 

Great tough mamangers like Clough and Ferguson have never had any problems with player power.

 

Great thinking managers like Wenger and Guardiola have never had any problems with player power.

 

Indeed a year ago under Steve Bruce with largely the same squad at SWFC player power was never mentioned.

[@owlstalk]

18 minutes ago, Owls Loyal said:

All this talk of player power is invented by the Monk aopologists. 

 

Great tough mamangers like Clough and Ferguson have never had any problems with player power.

 

Great thinking managers like Wenger and Guardiola have never had any problems with player power.

 

Indeed a year ago under Steve Bruce with largely the same squad at SWFC player power was never mentioned.

 

 

 

Let Alex Ferguson educate you on why you’re talking absolute nonsense...

 

 

 

 

“If the day came that the manager of Manchester United was controlled by the players—in other words, if the players decided how the training should be, what days they should have off, what the discipline should be, and what the tactics should be—then Manchester United would not be the Manchester United we know,” he said.

 

 “Before I came to United, I told myself I wasn’t going to allow anyone to be stronger than I was. Your personality has to be bigger than theirs. That is vital. There are occasions when you have to ask yourself whether certain players are affecting the dressing-room atmosphere, the performance of the team, and your control of the players and staff.

 

If they are, you have to cut the cord. There is absolutely no other way. It doesn’t matter if the person is the best player in the world. The long-term view of the club is more important than any individual, and the manager has to be the most important one in the club.”

 

Ferguson has hinted that clubs likes Manchester City and Chelsea, who have had several changes of manager in recent years, have allowed players to take too much power away from the boss.

 

“Some English clubs have changed managers so many times that it creates power for the players in the dressing room. That is very dangerous,” he continued. “If the coach has no control, he will not last. You have to achieve a position of comprehensive control.

 

Players must recognize that as the manager, you have the status to control events. You can complicate your life in many ways by asking, “Oh, I wonder if the players like me?” If I did my job well, the players would respect me, and that’s all you need.

 

I tended to act quickly when I saw a player become a negative influence. Some might say I acted impulsively, but I think it was critical that I made up my mind quickly. Why should I have gone to bed with doubts?

 

I would wake up the next day and take the necessary steps to maintain discipline. It’s important to have confidence in yourself to make a decision and to move on once you have.

 

It’s not about looking for adversity or for opportunities to prove power; it’s about having control and being authoritative when issues do arise.”

[Owls Loyal]

Firstly may I say that I find you comment condescending.

 

I maintain that good managers do not have a player power problem.

 

It is used as an apology or excuse by some on this Site for Monk's ineptitude.

 

Let us deal in results and performances:

 

Wednesday 0 Blackburn 5

Luton 1 Wednesday 0 (bottom of the table Luton missed a penalty plus 3 sitters)

Wednesday 0 Reading 3

Wednesday 1 Derby County 3

Brentford 5 Wednesday 0

 

The facts don't lie.

 

 

 

[@owlstalk]

You just totally ignored everything that Alex Ferguson said, then went 'Yeah but......'

 

 

[Owls Loyal]

I did not ignore it at all and I always try to be respectful in my posts because there are so many different opinions expressed about the club, team and players.  We cannot all be right and it is afterall a debate.

 

Clearly player power can exist in football but it was never mentioned as an issue under Steve Bruce who had largely the same squad at his disposal at SWFC.

 

I believe that player power is now being used as an excuse by Monk apologists.

 

My point is that some people are using player power as excuse for Monk's ineptitude and appalling results since Xmas at SWFC including:

Wednesday 0 Blackburn 5

Luton 1 Wednesday 0 (bottom of the table Luton missed a penalty plus 3 sitters)

Wednesday 0 Reading 3

Wednesday 1 Derby County 3

Brentford 5 Wednesday 0

 

[@owlstalk]

3 minutes ago, Owls Loyal said:

My point is that some people are using player power as excuse for Monk's ineptitude and appalling results since Xmas at SWFC including:

Wednesday 0 Blackburn 5

Luton 1 Wednesday 0 (bottom of the table Luton missed a penalty plus 3 sitters)

Wednesday 0 Reading 3

Wednesday 1 Derby County 3

Brentford 5 Wednesday 0

 

 

 

Well yeah...

That kind of explains itself doesn't it?

I'm struggling to understand the point you're making

Monk has said there are trouble players at the club

Chansiri has agreed and agreed that the club will remedy this in the close season by getting rid of them

So not sure what point you're trying to say by pointing out results whilst trouble players are at the club?

That's basically just reinforcing the very thing you're accusing people of apologising for?

Plus - you're discounting virtually every word of what Alex Ferguson said in the meantime

It's like you've got yourself in a tizzy trying your hardest to repeatedly use the word 'apologist' 

[Owls Loyal]

My point is very clear.

 

Squads of footballers will often have some big personalities in the dressing room.

 

It is about managing that situation, just as Steve Bruce did.

 

Monk uses player power as an excuse for his inept management and shocking results..

 

Monk was fired by Swansea, fired by M'boro, fired by Brum and hopefuilly will soon be fired by us

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Owls Loyal said:

Monk uses player power as an excuse for his inept management and shocking results..

 

 

In interviews Monk has said the buck stops with him, that he takes full and total responsibility for results, and that it is up to the manager to get results.

He's also stated however that there are problem players at the club and that his plan is to get to the summer and resolve the situation.

Chansiri has agreed with this and therefore that's the plan.
 

Results in the meantime have been poor and nobody is arguing that.

Ferguson's resolution to individuals at his club causing trouble was to immediately sell them. (he did this with David Beckham). The luxury Ferguson had was that he was dealing with some of the best players in the world so selling is a very easy process. We don't have that luxury with ours whatsoever.

Just saying Monk is the problem is way too simplistic for me, especially when you revisit Alex Ferguson's comments on how player power is reinforced by changing manager...

“Some English clubs have changed managers so many times that it creates power for the players in the dressing room. That is very dangerous,” 

 

Yet you seemingly want to just fire another manager and hand the players even MORE power?

[@owlstalk]

5 minutes ago, Owls Loyal said:

Monk was fired by Swansea, fired by M'boro, fired by Brum and hopefuilly will soon be fired by us

 

In the interest of fairness let's apply your logic to Steve Bruce's career

Steve Bruce was sacked by Aston Villa
Steve Bruce was sacked by Sunderland

etc

How do you explain that? Does that make him a shocking manager?

[Dutch McLovin]

Just now, @owlstalk said:

 

 

In interviews Monk has said the buck stops with him, that he takes full and total responsibility for results, and that it is up to the manager to get results.

He's also stated however that there are problem players at the club and that his plan is to get to the summer and resolve the situation.

Chansiri has agreed with this and therefore that's the plan.
 

Results in the meantime have been poor and nobody is arguing that.

Ferguson's resolution to individuals at his club causing trouble was to immediately sell them. (he did this with David Beckham). The luxury Ferguson had was that he was dealing with some of the best players in the world so selling is a very easy process. We don't have that luxury with ours whatsoever.

Just saying Monk is the problem is way too simplistic for me, especially when you revisit Alex Ferguson's comments on how player power is reinforced by changing manager...

“Some English clubs have changed managers so many times that it creates power for the players in the dressing room. That is very dangerous,” 

 

Yet you seemingly want to just fire another manager and hand the players even MORE power?

Every club has problem players. But not every club has a manager who cant handle them.

 

Regardless of what Monk wants to do its not just these problem players who aren't playing for him as results show. Infact by him excluding certain players he is making the results harder to get. When all said and done there are roughly 12 first team players left here next season under contract most of whom are playing now and are NOT playing for monk. 

 

If Monk is still here (which I hope he is gone as soon as lockdown is over) then we will only continue on our current trajectory no matter what new players he brings in.

 

Monk is not the man. Neither was Jos or Bullen. Bruce would have been IMO but he jumped ship so its about finding the right man. The sooner we start this search the better it should have been started early Feb.

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Dutch McLovin said:

If Monk is still here (which I hope he is gone as soon as lockdown is over) then we will only continue on our current trajectory no matter what new players he brings in.

 

 

Statements like this, about ANY manager or ANY player do nothing but highlight the prejudice of the person saying it, therefore I can't take anything else you say seriously mate.

[Dutch McLovin]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

Statements like this, about ANY manager or ANY player do nothing but highlight the prejudice of the person saying it, therefore I can't take anything else you say seriously mate.

Why is it prejudice ??

 

Its happened at all his other clubs. Once the slide starts he cant stop it which is why his jobs never last long. Its not as if he can bring in a new squad, he will be able to add a few but most are still gonna be here. So I cant see how this can go any other way. 

 

This was what I feared when he came in, I got behind him and gave him the benefit but then Stoke Boxing Day started the niggle and by February I was convinced it was time to go. Since then my views of this have only got stronger and results, performances and interviews have pretty much backed up my view.

 

I want what is best for the club. And there is no doubt that continuing with Monk as manager is not whats best.

[Plonk]

16 hours ago, Groundhopping Owl said:

To those saying Monk needs sacking as part of a club "shake up": it's obvious Monk's plan has basically been to get through this season then make his stamp, i.e. shake things up, in the summer. Remember he arrived in September when the transfer window was shut and Bruce had decided the retained list.

 

I agree that we've been crap since Christmas and Monk has to shoulder a fair bit of the blame for that. But I also agree with those saying that our biggest problem is player power - and we're not going to dispel that by getting rid of Monk and giving the squad the impression that they've gotten DC to bin yet another head coach by downing tools.

 

Monk doesn't strike me as the type to put up with any nonsense, you could almost see the steam rising off him in recent post-match interviews, plus why else would Westwood, Hutchinson and Bates have been training with the kids? That's a good trait to have at this club and I'd give him a crack at next season - after all the shenanigans he's had to navigate at Leeds, Brum and Wednesday he might be a good man to have in charge during what may well be a very weird season.

I’ve had fookinsteam coming out of my ears after the performances this season. Get shut he is clueless. Wait until season ticket sales numbers are announced. Gates will be down to 14 k next season with this “ style” of football

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Dutch McLovin said:

 Once the slide starts he cant stop it

This statement...

*bangs head on desk*

It's a statement that's been trotted out about Monk by someone and everyone's jumping on it like it's the statement to end all statements.

Yet you could take that statement and apply it to all/any manager who's ever been fired.

That statement is a trendy nonsense.

Those using it need to have a little sit down and think about it before using it again because it's making people look really gullible.

[Plonk]

1 minute ago, Dutch McLovin said:

Why is it prejudice ??

 

Its happened at all his other clubs. Once the slide starts he cant stop it which is why his jobs never last long. Its not as if he can bring in a new squad, he will be able to add a few but most are still gonna be here. So I cant see how this can go any other way. 

 

This was what I feared when he came in, I got behind him and gave him the benefit but then Stoke Boxing Day started the niggle and by February I was convinced it was time to go. Since then my views of this have only got stronger and results, performances and interviews have pretty much backed up my view.

 

I want what is best for the club. And there is no doubt that continuing with Monk as manager is not whats best.

Agree totally.  Calling it prejudice is ridiculous. It’s opinion. That’s what forums are for aren’t they??!

 

[Plonk]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

This statement...

*bangs head on desk*

It's a statement that's been trotted out about Monk by someone and everyone's jumping on it like it's the statement to end all statements.

Yet you could take that statement and apply it to all/any manager who's ever been fired.

That statement is a trendy nonsense.

Those using it need to have a little sit down and think about it before using it again because it's making people look really gullible.

Or look at his record which shows it’s true. If not why does keep getting sacked?

 

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Plonk said:

Agree totally.  Calling it prejudice is ridiculous. It’s opinion. That’s what forums are for aren’t they??!

 

Just because it's a forum that doesn't excuse statements like 'if this manager stays we will definitely be relegated' as though it's a fact, and removing all other factors such as removing problem players, getting in new faces, bringing in a coaching team (for example - did you know we have more first team masseurs than first team coaches??)
 

etc

 

Just saying if a manager stays we will definitely be relegated is nonsense. It's not a fact, it's merely a prediction that is along the same standard of quality as 'get shut of all the players.. they're all crap' 

 

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, Plonk said:

Or look at his record which shows it’s true. If not why does keep getting sacked?

 

 

Look at every manager who's been sacked - why do THEY keep getting sacked?

Like Steve Bruce for example.. 

He's been fired a few times..

Why is that? 

Couldn't he stop the slide once it had started?

Couldn't Steve Bruce turn results around?

Mmmm??

See how it works?

You can apply this logic to any manager who's ever been sacked

 

 

[Plonk]

3 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Look at every manager who's been sacked - why do THEY keep getting sacked?

Like Steve Bruce for example.. 

He's been fired a few times..

Why is that? 

Couldn't he stop the slide once it had started?

Couldn't Steve Bruce turn results around?

Mmmm??

See how it works?

You can apply this logic to any manager who's ever been sacked

 

 

I understand that but monk has been sacked at Every club he has been at. Never poached by a better club. Always sacked. Never won anything, and from what I read no one liked his style of football at the clubs he was sacked at. There is nothing in his record at previous clubs to suggest he can build a side capable of doing well. We may have to agree to disagree but I think he needs to go. I fear for the quality of players he will bring in given that he said “ decruz is the sort of player we need”. Yep perfect replacement for FF wouldn’t you say?