Pay Sacrifice

[Highbury Owl]

Just checking in how many of our senior players have agreed to a pay sacrifice (not deferrals) in solidarity with the situation in our country and in recognition of the taxpayer subsidy that our Chairman is asking for low paid staff at our club?

 

Maybe worth a reminder that these tax subsidies DC is asking for ultimately come out of taxes paid by those working at the moment like NHS staff, unlike our senior players who aren't. (and arguably haven't put much of a shift in all season)

[flo]

How would I know muchacho?

[Bulldog]

If there's one thing this issue has encouraged it's several sanctimonious statements 

[Highbury Owl]

8 hours ago, Bulldog said:

If there's one thing this issue has encouraged it's several sanctimonious statements 

 

Ah well, if suggesting we try and put our own house in order before asking for a handout is sanctimonious, then fine.

[Mr Farrell]

Lets honest, DC chose to overpay our family for years, so no good bleating now.

[Highbury Owl]

8 minutes ago, Mr Farrell said:

Lets honest, DC chose to overpay our family for years, so no good bleating now.

 

Might be a good time for DC to have another think about it?

[striker]

10 hours ago, Highbury Owl said:

Just checking in how many of our senior players have agreed to a pay sacrifice (not deferrals) in solidarity with the situation in our country and in recognition of the taxpayer subsidy that our Chairman is asking for low paid staff at our club?

 

Maybe worth a reminder that these tax subsidies DC is asking for ultimately come out of taxes paid by those working at the moment like NHS staff, unlike our senior players who aren't. (and arguably haven't put much of a shift in all season)

While I dont disagree in principle, playing devils advocate, the players are also taxpayers, as are other club employees, as are we all. 

 

No one can argue against the work NHS and all other key workers are doing, but I dont think taking money from an individual on a fixed term contract (irrelevant of the financial remuneration) is likely to fix the situation. 

 

If there was a moral argument, the EPL, being the epitome of greed,  should be a starting point. That said, almost all clubs, including EPL, deliberately run at a loss and hope this situation forces a reset and the clubs as a whole to run more sustainably. 

[Bob]

It is disgraceful that thousands of football clubs staff are being furloughed and getting 80% pay and the players, by and large, are still receiving ridiculous wages.

[striker]

36 minutes ago, Bob said:

It is disgraceful that thousands of football clubs staff are being furloughed and getting 80% pay and the players, by and large, are still receiving ridiculous wages.

This is where I agree and irrelevant of whether clubs take advantage of the government support, I do believe there is a strong moral argument to make up the difference.

 

More understandable in the lower leagues, but no excuse for EPL and probably most Championship clubs. 

 

Just as an aside, good time to get rid of unwanted players running their contracts down? Sure there will be a legal bod on here, but assuming they aren't paid according to their contract, have the right to terminate and become a free agent. 

 

So, an overpaid player, not going to be playing football, no asset value, out of contract within the next 12 months....We've got a few of those and could save a few quid?!!!

 

(Might sound harsh, but it's what happens in the real world to people on fixed term contracts)

[Bulldog]

3 hours ago, Highbury Owl said:

 

Ah well, if suggesting we try and put our own house in order before asking for a handout is sanctimonious, then fine.

How do you know they haven't already done what you've said they haven't?

[Dick_Turpin]

1 hour ago, striker said:

This is where I agree and irrelevant of whether clubs take advantage of the government support, I do believe there is a strong moral argument to make up the difference.

 

More understandable in the lower leagues, but no excuse for EPL and probably most Championship clubs. 

 

Just as an aside, good time to get rid of unwanted players running their contracts down? Sure there will be a legal bod on here, but assuming they aren't paid according to their contract, have the right to terminate and become a free agent. 

 

So, an overpaid player, not going to be playing football, no asset value, out of contract within the next 12 months....We've got a few of those and could save a few quid?!!!

 

(Might sound harsh, but it's what happens in the real world to people on fixed term contracts)

From today's Athletic

 

“Football contracts are not like most employment contracts for good reason,....first, they are the product of years of collective bargaining between the clubs, players’ unions and the governing bodies, so they cannot be altered without consultation. 

 

“Second, they are fixed-term contracts, so players cannot just be made redundant or dismissed on notice because there is no work for them. And there are no force majeure clauses in them because of the highly specific nature of the industry.

 

“A Liverpool player cannot just hand in his notice and join Arsenal in the same way most of us can move to new companies. This is because of the integrity and team stability issues this would pose for football competitions, but it is a fundamental restraint of trade. Therefore it is only fair that players get something in return.

 

[soldierboyblue]

6 hours ago, striker said:

This is where I agree and irrelevant of whether clubs take advantage of the government support, I do believe there is a strong moral argument to make up the difference.

 

More understandable in the lower leagues, but no excuse for EPL and probably most Championship clubs. 

 

Just as an aside, good time to get rid of unwanted players running their contracts down? Sure there will be a legal bod on here, but assuming they aren't paid according to their contract, have the right to terminate and become a free agent. 

 

So, an overpaid player, not going to be playing football, no asset value, out of contract within the next 12 months....We've got a few of those and could save a few quid?!!!

 

(Might sound harsh, but it's what happens in the real world to people on fixed term contracts)

Very rocky ground to make players redundant now - this would be open up the club to an even bigger minefield under current employment law. We could agree settlements to pay up the remainder of the contracts. Footballers will have more clauses than Santa around things like this in their contracts hence why no club has yet gone down this route

[sherlyegg]

5 hours ago, rickygoo said:

A Liverpool player cannot just hand in his notice and join Arsenal in the same way most of us can move to new companies.

Course they can, though not in the same way as most of us, like you say.

 

36 minutes ago, soldierboyblue said:

Very rocky ground to make players redundant now

Course we can, though we cannot set someone new on in a similar role in the immediate future.

Not that we should or want too...the country is injured.

Pay back time.

 

[fudge27]

5 hours ago, rickygoo said:

From today's Athletic

 

“Football contracts are not like most employment contracts for good reason,....first, they are the product of years of collective bargaining between the clubs, players’ unions and the governing bodies, so they cannot be altered without consultation. 

 

“Second, they are fixed-term contracts, so players cannot just be made redundant or dismissed on notice because there is no work for them. And there are no force majeure clauses in them because of the highly specific nature of the industry.

 

“A Liverpool player cannot just hand in his notice and join Arsenal in the same way most of us can move to new companies. This is because of the integrity and team stability issues this would pose for football competitions, but it is a fundamental restraint of trade. Therefore it is only fair that players get something in return.

 

They do get something in return. A few extra 00s at the end of their salary. 

 

 

Absolute testicles this furleighing of lower paid staff. 

 

Like I said elsewhere, it should be a rule for companies in general that if they want to use the furleigh system, the top earners must be taking a pay cut too. 

 

Scumbags abusing the system. 

[Stainless]

Was there statement from the PFA advising their members not to agree a federal or freeze without their agreement? Sure I saw that somewhere just can't remember where. 

[keepitsteel89]

Legally speaking theres no obligation to do anythin but at our club a deferral in wages is probably the safest loan in history so theres no excuse not to.

[Dick_Turpin]

1 hour ago, sherlyegg said:

 

6 hours ago, rickygoo said:

A Liverpool player cannot just hand in his notice and join Arsenal in the same way most of us can move to new companies.

Course they can, though not in the same way as most of us, like you say.

 

 

How can they do this?

[Woodyowl450]

On 02/04/2020 at 08:50, Bob said:

It is disgraceful that thousands of football clubs staff are being furloughed and getting 80% pay and the players, by and large, are still receiving ridiculous wages.

Whilst I agree completely principally, I struggle to see how player wage reductions would actually help in some cases. There's no amount of money that would stop people like Mike Ashley acting like bellends. The distribution of the extra wealth would probably not go to acceptable use in his case. 

 

[NeonLeon]

Josh Windass making abit of a fool of himself on Twitter because he doesn’t understand the difference between people calling for player wage cuts, and players donating to charities, the NHS etc.

 

 

[Guest Willow Owl]

On 02/04/2020 at 17:19, Stainless said:

Was there statement from the PFA advising their members not to agree a federal or freeze without their agreement? Sure I saw that somewhere just can't remember where. 

Yes there was. They were advised not to accept anything until further notice. Typical of the PFA. Further discussions today.