Carlos “I am finished... This is the new me”

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, SallyCinnamon said:

 

Recruitment was to blame for sure. But the players need to show the right mentality and attitude and those lot clearly didn't have it. Says a lot about them as characters in my opinion. 

 

We had a hell of an unlucky streak if we have managed to go out and recruit a huge group of players all with the same attitude, character and mentality....

 

Unprecedented in fact 

[fudge27]

Just now, SallyCinnamon said:

 

Recruitment was to blame for sure. But the players need to show the right mentality and attitude and those lot clearly didn't have it. Says a lot about them as characters in my opinion. 

But you need some of them in the squad. Wallace was a very good player for us and I never watched him and thought he's not giving his all. 

 

Having a laugh at your boss cos he's done something stupid isn't an issue. Recruiting 10 senior pros who all have egos and all know that it's a results business and lose their motivation after 2 near misses is an issue. 

 

As is a manager who by all accounts tried to play the best pal, then when things changed results wise passed the blame on to the players. 

[torres]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

 

We had a hell of an unlucky streak if we have managed to go out and recruit a huge group of players all with the same attitude, character and mentality....

 

Unprecedented in fact 

 

Why is it unlucky?

 

We wanted good players to come to us quickly 

 

They were lured by big money and helped by the fact their current team didn't want/need them  - for whatever reason 

 

Not many were prised away  

[SallyCinnamon]

2 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

We had a hell of an unlucky streak if we have managed to go out and recruit a huge group of players all with the same attitude, character and mentality....

 

Unprecedented in fact 

Well that’s what happens when you sign ageing pros, with suspect injury records and pay them good money whilst treating them as heroes.

 

So yes, it’s not unprecedented it’s just shocking recruitment. Wallace, Hooper, Pudil, Fletcher, Boyd, Abdi, Jones. New fat contracts for Hutch, Westwood, Lees.

 

Throw into the mix a bunch of players who we signed but NEVER played McGugan, Bus, Sougou, Wiggins, Melo, Emanuelson, Van Aken etc.

 

Its absolutely no surprise the culture in that dressing room was and still is poor. I don’t think that’s all down to Carlos. The players themselves have to look at themselves and those dishing out the contracts and those in charge of recruitment got it horribly wrong.
 

The club repeated the same mistakes it made in 2000 and 2009. 

[@owlstalk]

Just now, torres said:

 

Why is it unlucky?

 

We wanted good players to come to us quickly 

 

They were lured by big money and helped by the fact their current team didn't want/need them  - for whatever reason 

 

Not many were prised away  

 

 

People are saying these players must have arrived with their attitude and character rather than it being bred by Carlos’ culture and management style.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, fudge27 said:

But you need some of them in the squad. Wallace was a very good player for us and I never watched him and thought he's not giving his all. 

 

Having a laugh at your boss cos he's done something stupid isn't an issue. Recruiting 10 senior pros who all have egos and all know that it's a results business and lose their motivation after 2 near misses is an issue. 

 

As is a manager who by all accounts tried to play the best pal, then when things changed results wise passed the blame on to the players. 

 

True, Carlos should have gone after the Huddersfield debacle and the squad needed freshening in key areas at that point.

 

Some keep blaming the likes of Carlos and Ross Wallace for the position we are currently in, it's ridiculous. How long is Carlos going to be at fault for? Is it his fault that we are under performing when most of the squad that have played since Christmas were not around at the time he was in charge? 

 

They gave it a good go for 2 seasons and almost made it. From then on decision making on transfers in and out has been largely poor. Some said Carlos should have guaranteed automatic promotion with the side he had. Yes it was the best bunch of players we have had in a long time but our spending was nowhere near the likes of Newcastle, Brighton and others in the division. We weren't top 6 in terms of outlay never mind top 2.

[fudge27]

4 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Well that’s what happens when you sign ageing pros, with suspect injury records and pay them good money whilst treating them as heroes.

 

So yes, it’s not unprecedented it’s just shocking recruitment. Wallace, Hooper, Pudil, Fletcher, Boyd, Abdi, Jones. New fat contracts for Hutch, Westwood, Lees.

 

Throw into the mix a bunch of players who we signed but NEVER played McGugan, Bus, Sougou, Wiggins, Melo, Emanuelson, Van Aken etc.

 

Its absolutely no surprise the culture in that dressing room was and still is poor. I don’t think that’s all down to Carlos. The players themselves have to look at themselves and those dishing out the contracts and those in charge of recruitment got it horribly wrong.
 

The club repeated the same mistakes it made in 2000 and 2009. 

The first lot were fine. 

 

Wallace, Hooper, Pudil

 

Then the season after Fletcher. 

 

Abdi at the time looked like a good buy, but Rhodes, Winnall, Boyd, Jones, renewing KW and Hutch. 

 

Keeping players too long - Pudil, Boyd, Hutch, FF, I'd say Reach and Bannan if we don't cash in will fall in this soon. 

 

But signing those players you need a very good man manager, unfortunately CC and Jos weren't great in that respect and then the players are routed and it's harder and harder for new managers to get rid of the culture 

[SallyCinnamon]

3 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

People are saying these players must have arrived with their attitude and character rather than it being bred by Carlos’ culture and management style.

 

Well, a lot of them did. A lot of them were 28+ already played at the top level, no longer good enough for that level but still think they deserve to be playing at that level.

 

Oh look here comes Sheffield Wednesday with a new rich owner willing to pay me good money. Decent sized club, good wages, in the second tier - absolute dream retirement home for some of them. 3 year or 4 year contracts on 15-20k a week or more?! Where do I sign!

 

 

[SallyCinnamon]

6 minutes ago, fudge27 said:

The first lot were fine. 

 

Wallace, Hooper, Pudil

 

Then the season after Fletcher. 

 

Abdi at the time looked like a good buy, but Rhodes, Winnall, Boyd, Jones, renewing KW and Hutch. 

 

Keeping players too long - Pudil, Boyd, Hutch, FF, I'd say Reach and Bannan if we don't cash in will fall in this soon. 

 

But signing those players you need a very good man manager, unfortunately CC and Jos weren't great in that respect and then the players are routed and it's harder and harder for new managers to get rid of the culture 

 

Wallace did a good job, although we gave him a new deal in 2017. He rewarded us with a poor season. Pudil had a good loan spell but we signed him for 2m at 31 years old. From that point he showed clear signs of decline. Hooper very talented but his time with us he was given a pass from a lot of fans. Spent large chunks of the time out injured and didn't offer enough for the £3m spent and the wages paid. And ended up walking away without making any money on him = bad recruitment. 

 

Fletcher has come into his own this season, but for the reported 35k - 40k a week, did he really do enough in the first three seasons with us? Nope.

 

In my opinion we made two excellent signings in Bannan and Forestieri. Both signed at good ages and both after the first season had excellent re-sale value which we could use to reinvest into the squad. But no we didn't sell them. And now they'll leave us for nowt. 

Edited March 16, 2020 by SallyCinnamon

[torres]

7 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

 

Well, a lot of them did. A lot of them were 28+ already played at the top level, no longer good enough for that level but still think they deserve to be playing at that level.

 

Oh look here comes Sheffield Wednesday with a new rich owner willing to pay me good money. Decent sized club, good wages, in the second tier - absolute dream retirement home for some of them. 3 year or 4 year contracts on 15-20k a week or more?! Where do I sign!

 

 

 

This is near enough what i was about to say 

 

Sadly in sport  - ability is still key over attitude 

 

You can only get so far on an outstanding attitude but people will always take a chance on ability 

 

Hooper

FF

Abdi

Mcgeady

etc, etc 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2020 by torres

[S72 Owl]

I think we’d all take the opurtunity to have a bit of a laugh at the managers expense, what ever job you do. 

[Owls-Fan]

28 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

 

Recruitment was to blame for sure. But the players need to show the right mentality and attitude and those lot clearly didn't have it. Says a lot about them as characters in my opinion. 

Absolutely,  very interesting that Wallace let slip “we didn’t think you’s (Carlos) was good enough” BEFORE Carlos revealed to players he was joking/breakdown.  That says it all really.

 

The squad we assembled had ability but not the attitude to be winners.

 

I’d actually like us to appoint someone like Roy Keane now just so he can beat up those remaining players who don’t give a t*ss

 

 

[SallyCinnamon]

5 minutes ago, S72 Owl said:

I think we’d all take the opurtunity to have a bit of a laugh at the managers expense, what ever job you do. 

 

Yep but when the same happened to Jos and the same is happening now to Monk. Clearly it's more than the manager not being good enough. 

[matthefish2002]

14 minutes ago, Owls-Fan said:

Absolutely,  very interesting that Wallace let slip “we didn’t think you’s (Carlos) was good enough” BEFORE Carlos revealed to players he was joking/breakdown.  That says it all really.

 

The squad we assembled had ability but not the attitude to be winners.

 

I’d actually like us to appoint someone like Roy Keane now just so he can beat up those remaining players who don’t give a t*ss

 

 

 

 I really enjoy Roy Keane as a pundit but please no as a manager!

He might be decent as an assistant manager though.

[Johnny Concrete]

1 hour ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Well that’s what happens when you sign ageing pros, with suspect injury records and pay them good money whilst treating them as heroes.

 

So yes, it’s not unprecedented it’s just shocking recruitment. Wallace, Hooper, Pudil, Fletcher, Boyd, Abdi, Jones. New fat contracts for Hutch, Westwood, Lees.

 

Throw into the mix a bunch of players who we signed but NEVER played McGugan, Bus, Sougou, Wiggins, Melo, Emanuelson, Van Aken etc.

 

Its absolutely no surprise the culture in that dressing room was and still is poor. I don’t think that’s all down to Carlos. The players themselves have to look at themselves and those dishing out the contracts and those in charge of recruitment got it horribly wrong.
 

The club repeated the same mistakes it made in 2000 and 2009. 

 

It's scary to think how much we've blown on salaries, those players you listed like Melo and Emanuelson, absolute throwing cash away. I remember when we signed that Dutch lad in Carlos first season, Daryl Lachman, infact I think he was the first signing for the club that season. I saw him in a pre season match against St Mirren and never saw him again, another strange recruitment from the club. 

[HighworthOwl]

56 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

 

In my opinion we made two excellent signings in Bannan and Forestieri. Both signed at good ages and both after the first season had excellent re-sale value which we could use to reinvest into the squad. But no we didn't sell them. And now they'll leave us for nowt. 

 

Looking back i agree 100% with what you are saying but i know at the time if we had sold either of them i would have said it was shortsightedness and a mistake. I think if people are being honest a fair few would have felt the same. 

 

You are right through we should have cashed in. Im not so confident we would have spent the money well looking at our transfer record around that time. 

 

I would also say that Abdi / Jones on paper where very good signings and where widely praised.  Sadly both where a disaster. 

[Mister Soul]

Wallace was a great player for us.

But this just makes me think that there is an undercurrent of disrespect for whichever manager has walked thru the door.

Yes respect is earned but any manager at any club should have some respect from the players regardless of how bizarre the manager is.

Sir AlexFerguson still has the respect of (the majority) of his old squad. 

[Hodgyowl]

2 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

What did the manager do to stop that culture?

Players will always have the upper hand, signed on 3yr fat contract's they don't give a fig who the manager is if they don't like him they'll get him the sack it's been happening for yes.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Mister Soul said:

Wallace was a great player for us.

But this just makes me think that there is an undercurrent of disrespect for whichever manager has walked thru the door.

Yes respect is earned but any manager at any club should have some respect from the players regardless of how bizarre the manager is.

Sir AlexFerguson still has the respect of (the majority) of his old squad. 

 

I agree with that but Ferguson earned the respect through his record, his old squad were also of a different generation in football terms, albeit not that long ago. The very best, the elite players earn their money because they have the drive and desire to succeed and they attract the audiences that the TV money affords.

 

At our level players earn far beyond their ability, not just for us but more in general. They have the power and know that they can earn vast sums based on not a great deal. Agents manipulate moves to earn more money as part of signing-on fees, transfer fees and even contract extensions. I wouldn't go as far as saying the majority don't care but there is very little consequence of failure and so as a few have said, they are too compfortable.  

[dorian gray]

2 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

What did the manager do to stop that culture?

led them.