brian joicey Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 3 hours ago, Liam_Baggies said: From the outside looking in - there's two to tango. Monk has a role to ensure the players perform on the pitch. It's up to Monk to get the best from them. He is judged by his results. I think its safe to say - he hasn't. The very minimum I would be expecting is a side who are well drilled, organised and look to grind out results. I don't see that. . he got them up to 3rd by christmas, same manager same players..... then,something behind the scenes kicked off and the players effectively downed tools. reading between the lines of what i've read i don't think this is down to monk ( i could be wrong but that's my gut feeling) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Just now, brian joicey said: he got them up to 3rd by christmas, same manager same players..... then,something behind the scenes kicked off and the players effectively downed tools. reading between the lines of what i've read i don't think this is down to monk ( i could be wrong but that's my gut feeling) When we were third we were over performing significantly and the league position flattered the squad We weren’t even playing that well Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 minute ago, @owlstalk said: When we were third we were over performing significantly and the league position flattered the squad We weren’t even playing that well Flattered maybe but not to the extent you fall of a cliff. We were half the season in, that's not by fluke after 23 games. It wasn't great to watch but it was certainly effective and we were competitive, don't think we had been beaten by more than 1 goal at that stage or conceded more than 2 in any game.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian joicey Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: When we were third we were over performing significantly and the league position flattered the squad We weren’t even playing that well agreed, but the quote says 'it's a result based business' and they were the results (rather than the performances). indeed,if we hadn't conceeded sooo many late goals we would have been top !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 minute ago, brian joicey said: agreed, but the quote says 'it's a result based business' and they were the results (rather than the performances). indeed,if we hadn't conceeded sooo many late goals we would have been top !!! True! Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 36 minutes ago, bobness said: Now consider that Monk has virtually no coaching staff. The only football coach he has by his side, is an ex-player who is totally unproven as a coach. Under these working conditions, are your expectations of Monk realistic? One man, to coach and manage all aspects of the team's play, while also managing and motivating a squad off the field. It's an impossible task. We are not well-resourced in that respect, this is true. However, this was referred to at the time of his appointment and Monk agreed to this, if he thought it was too much to ask he shouldn't have agreed to it. Also, the only people Monk has worked with in the past to any great degree in terms of 1st team coaching are Clotet and Beattie. Clotet and Monk can't abide each other anymore and Beattie is no better qualified than Bullen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlyegg Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 In days gone by, the chairman got all the flack for not spending money on players...even going back, in our case to Harry Catterick..where the chairman refused to sanction a transfer for a said player...Catterick got the dolls on and jacked. Managers often got agited by their chairman's lack of trust..and often said so. Today we have chairmen whom rely on advisors..or true owners, because of loans via 3rd parties and in reality ain't got a clue and end up being puppets to their 'bankers' Some people today who run football clubs have no connection with the name, nor do they give a foook. All they see is the bottom line. And some make a living...a good living out of doing so. While the chairman can end up potless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobness Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 16 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: We are not well-resourced in that respect, this is true. However, this was referred to at the time of his appointment and Monk agreed to this, if he thought it was too much to ask he shouldn't have agreed to it. Also, the only people Monk has worked with in the past to any great degree in terms of 1st team coaching are Clotet and Beattie. Clotet and Monk can't abide each other anymore and Beattie is no better qualified than Bullen. I agree, and have posted elsewhere that Monk is not blameless, as it appears he's agreed to this arrangement. The point though is that it's unrealistic to expect the results to be different to what they are. In Monk's defence, it's possible he expected more from Bullen. We don't really know what Bullen's capable of, but he doesn't strike me as a decent coach, more just a nice bloke to have around. Additionally, while I don't know what his role was, according to Transfermrkt, Remy Reynierse was here until mid January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 22 hours ago, @owlstalk said: It doesn't really prove any point? My point is this.. The chairman could call a fans forum tomorrow morning (my gut feeling is that this is what he actually will do) At the forum he could then say he and his family have been subject to vile abuse, that the players have been targetted on social media, and that certain outlets like Matt (footballtyper) and even Owlstalk are calling the club into question by talking about the clubs advisors He could then say that he has put millions of pounds into the club and won't leave the club to rot and that he will do everything he can to sort it out, get promoted and make the family happy again. He'd get a standing ovation and fans would be placated again Seen it time and time again Even that mad christmas eve rant on the official website got approval from the masses Guess your gut was wrong this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Owl Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 55 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: When we were third we were over performing significantly and the league position flattered the squad We weren’t even playing that well We should have been top if you take into consideration the number of goals we shouldn't have conceded in the last few minutes of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roaminowl Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 hour ago, brian joicey said: agreed, but the quote says 'it's a result based business' and they were the results (rather than the performances). indeed,if we hadn't conceeded sooo many late goals we would have been top !!! Getting hammered every week has certainly cut down on the 'points lost near the end of the game' statistic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam_Baggies Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 2 hours ago, bobness said: Now consider that Monk has virtually no coaching staff. The only football coach he has by his side, is an ex-player who is totally unproven as a coach. Under these working conditions, are your expectations of Monk realistic? One man, to coach and manage all aspects of the team's play, while also managing and motivating a squad off the field. It's an impossible task. I don’t disagree - I was just being objective - whilst I don’t think Monk has drawn the best from this squad, I’m not naive enough to realise that Chansiri has failed to support him properly. these constraints will remain going forwards though and that’s why I refer to the lack of direction off the pitch. chansiri will not get into the habit of constantly paying compensation packages to his managers and assistants who do not make the most of the resources he provides. i do not think we are too far from a scenario which sees Lee Bullen take the reigns on a permanent basis. on which, the players should take a long hard look at themselves. Too many turning up, taking a healthy wage and not justifying the expenses being paid to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobness Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Liam_Baggies said: i do not think we are too far from a scenario which sees Lee Bullen take the reigns on a permanent basis. This would well and truly indicate that DC has given up. I can see it now, Lee Bullen, coaching and managing the team on his own. The players running the show, like a case of the lunatics running the asylum. DC buys every unknown cheap player that comes his way, until he has enough to make up the numbers. Edited March 9, 2020 by bobness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripes or die Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Liam_Baggies said: I don’t disagree - I was just being objective - whilst I don’t think Monk has drawn the best from this squad, I’m not naive enough to realise that Chansiri has failed to support him properly. these constraints will remain going forwards though and that’s why I refer to the lack of direction off the pitch. chansiri will not get into the habit of constantly paying compensation packages to his managers and assistants who do not make the most of the resources he provides. i do not think we are too far from a scenario which sees Lee Bullen take the reigns on a permanent basis. on which, the players should take a long hard look at themselves. Too many turning up, taking a healthy wage and not justifying the expenses being paid to them. Stop it. I don’t mind people fishing on here but that is a very poor effort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChapSmurf Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 22 hours ago, stanningtonowl said: As long as we are still paying him. And Westwood. We are paying all the players I would imagine, otherwise we are in breach of contract. Whether or not they are included in a squad is up to the manager. Clearly these two aren't, and yet people are still expecting them to be. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanningtonowl Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, ChapSmurf said: We are paying all the players I would imagine, otherwise we are in breach of contract. Whether or not they are included in a squad is up to the manager. Clearly these two aren't, and yet people are still expecting them to be. Why? Because they are better than what we are playing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sefton owl Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Doyen were also involved with Club Brugge, and they got chucked out of European competitions for ‘third party involvement’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longreach Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 hour ago, S36 OWL said: Can only assume the man didn't like people sniffing around him and asking questions. Didn't go too well then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talon Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 So, is the subject of Paxo's involvement 'off the table'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChapSmurf Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 19 hours ago, stanningtonowl said: Because they are better than what we are playing? But the simple fact is, they aren't being picked and won't be picked. Those ships have sailed. That's the point I am making. There is no point as fans harping on about it, even though I totally agree with you, because we don't pick the team and have no idea what is, and what has, gone on behind the scenes. Fans suggesting the starting 11 never has, and never will, happen. I recall Monk saying early on in his role about discipline (yellow/red cards) and that he can accept certain situations where a card is given if it's not really the players fault. On the other hand, dissent for example, is something that players can control and therefore he won't tolerate those circumstances. Maybe Hutch has just pushed those boundaries too far perhaps, although he is not often booked for dissent. Maybe that dissent is being shown on the training ground. Maybe Monk is intolerant to the amount of injuries Westwood is getting and between the two of them they have become unreliable, in so much as they can't always be included or thought of in the match day squad, for one reason or another, be that yellow cards, dodgy knees or other injuries. I appreciate debate though, but it's pointless. We won't change Monk's mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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