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Based on his time at SWFC so far I agree there is no evidence that Monk gets any point.

 

Indeed if you are always right about everything why would you reflect and analyse what is going wrong whether it be at Swansea, Leeds in their collapse, Middlesborough with all the conflict or now at Hillsborough.

 

Best not mention what went wrong at Birmingham in the eyes of the Owner.

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19 minutes ago, Owls Loyal said:

Based on his time at SWFC so far I agree there is no evidence that Monk gets any point.

 

Indeed if you are always right about everything why would you reflect and analyse what is going wrong whether it be at Swansea, Leeds in their collapse, Middlesborough with all the conflict or now at Hillsborough.

 

Best not mention what went wrong at Birmingham in the eyes of the Owner.

is this the same monk that got our grossly unbalanced, overaged, passed it's best squad into THIRD PLACE in the division when he had a SINGLE WORTHY FORWARD available for selection?

all of our knowledgeable fans, and a number of our less so knowledgeable understand that our back up, and bench strikeforce aren't worth a hill of beanz, with the exclusion of nuhiu for 15 minutes at the back end of a  game.

yet some of our support still look to use the period of fletcher's injury as a stick to beat monk with, it must have been hell for the poor souls when we were winning as lying in wait, dagger in hand, time can drag on seemingly endlessly.

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On 09/03/2020 at 10:17, WalthamOwl said:

Bet the players are itching for Monk to be sacked so they can be the ones in charge again when Bullen is caretaker. 


I thought the players all loved him? Apart from the bad eggs

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As Sir Brian Clough once said::

 

"Injuries happen"

 

Is dorian gray really suggesting that the absence of a 33 year old centre forward caused us to lose 5-0 at home to Blackburn Rovers or 3-0 at home to Reading.

 

I might also point out to dorian gray that Fletcher was playing in the total 5-0 capitulation away at Brentford.

 

Monk is finished at SWFC because he is a completely useless football manager but unfortunately it looks like we are going to drag it out as we are far too indecisive.

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Monk may or may not be useless, but it seems this narrative is the only one ever as far as many supporters are concerned. It's a pre-programmed panacea that they are incapable of looking beyond even though year after year across the football leagues there is a constant spinning of the wheel that more often than not (as demonstrated by a university study a few years ago) has little or no effect in the long term without more extensive changes of logistics, finance or strategy behind the scenes.

 

When was the last time this club had a manager who wasn't described in these terms? With the exception of Ron Atkinson (and possibly to a lesser extent Stuart Gray), every single one of them has faced sustained criticism since Howard Wilkinson in the latter part of the 1980s. And that includes people who took us to Europe, got us to cup finals, achieved promotions and worked with one of the lowest budgets of their contemporaries at the time. A few of them must have had some idea surely? The problems afflicting us at the moment clearly go well beyond the bloke holding the whistle in training. 

 

This should not be seen as an unconditional defence of Monk, by the way. Results and performances lately speak for themselves. As do some of his comments about them. If we can get someone better (which is somewhat doubtful given our circumstances, especially financial), then I'm all for it. Steve Bruce might have been someone of that calibre but he didn't hang around long enough to prove that. After all, the bottom line is that the club performs at the highest standard possible - in all areas. But if the answer is just another uninspiring journeyman or hopeful rookie, all we're probably doing is putting off by a few months the next time we go through this. And the real foundations of all this, whatever they are, remain untouched.

 

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I disagreed in a number of posts with DJ Mortimer18 months ago over his defence of Luhukay and his desire to keep that individual on..

 

Well, the question we all have to ask ourselves is "if we were Chairman of Sheffield Wednesday would I fire Monk?"

 

I know that I for one would have him out of the door instantly because I never buy the argument that there is nobody better out there.

 

Would you rather appoint Big Jack or keep Len Ashurst on or recruit Big Ron versus sticking with Eustace?

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 I have always given the benefit of doubt to someone / something that has not had the best outcome after a short time, if the resources are not up to standard.

 

 I would prefer to see what progress  he can make after making his own signings in the next transfer window.

 this would also give him next Season with players he has chosen to make a statement of intent.

 

 I really don't want him to be sacked just to bring in,

 

 A) another foreign bloke who has no idea of the Championship.

 B) Out of work has been.

 C) Young upcoming Manager who finds himself out of his depth.

 

 I say give Monk a chance.

 

 

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Further to my last post I would like to add this.

 

 

A song many of you will know with a slight alteration.

 

We love you Monky, oh yes we do

We love you Monky, oh yes we do

We love you Monkyyyyyyy oh yeh, oh Monky we love you.

 

Sung to the classic, we love you Brian,

from the film, we love you Brian.

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15 minutes ago, Owls Loyal said:

Would you rather appoint Big Jack or keep Len Ashurst on or recruit Big Ron versus sticking with Eustace?

 

Individual examples are meaningless, especially when you consider what that university study of a few years ago found about the general trend. And certainly in the case of the latter example above, this coincided with a change of boardroom strategy that also contributed to the results, which is usually a much bigger factor. But that is quite an extreme example anyway. Not even Eustace's own mother would suggest he was as capable a manager as someone of the stature of Atkinson. Are we likely to see that kind of quantum leap if/when Monk is dispensed with? If we are, then bring it on. 

 

Did we improve when we went from Atkinson to Wilson to Jewell to Shreeves to Yorath to Turner? And even their successors; Sturrock, Laws, Irvine, Megson and Jones (with possibly only one exception) were unable to sustain the improvements they brought about for the long term and were soon faced with the same degree of criticism as their predecessors from people who in the main had little or no idea of what might have been contributing to the disappointing results. Just one example - at least one of those in my list faced extensive hostility and interference from the boardroom.

 

A change of manager can of course bring about the kind of change desired, but most of the time it doesn't for long because it fails to address at least some of the foundational causes. And in our case at the moment, I think that is most certainly true.

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On 30/03/2020 at 14:00, dorian gray said:

or another way of putting it, since we lost our only effective forward.

 

You can't be so reliant on one player to get you results - that's not the sign of an effective manager. Yes Fletcher has been very effective for us, even more so this season and was a big loss but other managers have had to cope without him at times since he has been here. Also, the form started to dip when he was still in the side and has not improved that much since he returned, especially defensively. 

 

We were 3rd at Christmas and Monk deserved praise for the effective way in which we had played to that point. Since then however this is where we stand:

 

 image.png.83dcdebc3a046c71c842bdb80de525b0.png

 

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That is a very worrying form table of Championship teams since Xmas posted by hirtsyboy wonder.

 

It is truly frightening and hardly down to the loss of Fletcher for some games as Monk should surely have been able to pick up more than 9 points out of a possible 42 avaialble.  Also Fletcher started in the 3-1 defeat to Derby County and the 5-0 defeat away at Brentford.

 

Meanwhile DJ Mortimer posted the following:

 

A change of manager can of course bring about the kind of change desired, but most of the time it doesn't for long because it fails to address at least some of the foundational causes. And in our case at the moment, I think that is most certainly true.

 

Well the tone of that sounds very definitive as did DJ Mortimer's defence of Luhukay right up until the end of his time at SWFC.

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18 hours ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

You can't be so reliant on one player to get you results - that's not the sign of an effective manager. Yes Fletcher has been very effective for us, even more so this season and was a big loss but other managers have had to cope without him at times since he has been here. Also, the form started to dip when he was still in the side and has not improved that much since he returned, especially defensively. 

 

We were 3rd at Christmas and Monk deserved praise for the effective way in which we had played to that point. Since then however this is where we stand:

 

 image.png.83dcdebc3a046c71c842bdb80de525b0.png

 

he has a totally unbalanced squad, built to square pass the ball for an age inside it's own half before crossing the half way line, it has an abundance of strikers on the books, by numerous times our most expensive, yet ONLY ONE of them is any good. 

any manager would have been under pressure when losing that single striker for such an extended period, let alone one who appears to have a rebellion on his hands, and works for a club who has brought players in, and not released them causing them to be walled in by a straightjacket of financial constraints, it's a perfect storm.

yet some foolishly think this club if it gets shut of him is going to attract some kind of messiah, to the point that sam allardyce has been mentioned.  garymegsonlol

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Is there no way to change the title of this thread @OWLSTALK
 

I see it every day and think wow then realise it’s just a poor thread title that’s inaccurate and doesn’t represent the topic within. 

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20 hours ago, daleblue said:

 

 I say give Monk a chance.

 

 

 

I wish his surname was Peace.

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1 hour ago, @owlstalk said:

What actually happened over the Christmas period to trigger such an almighty collapse?

 

Cant be Monk...

 

This is the question I keep coming back to as well.

 

For a team who were third in the table at the halfway point to completely and utterly collapse in the manner we did is almost beyond comprehension.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, @owlstalk said:


 

What actually happened over the Christmas period to trigger such an almighty collapse?

 

Cant be Monk...

Had xmas off didnt they this season. That or that's about the time we found out we were definitely losing points and the players give up.  Watch the EFL postpone or suspended the charge now and we come out and win 5 out of 6 when football returns.

Edited by pazowl55
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Posted (edited)

Never rated Monk as a manager, but even he should have been competent enough to keep this side upper mid table at least. Even Bullen would have achieved that. All that was needed, was to carry on the approach under Bruce, and not rock the boat. He could then, gradually introduce his own ideas, and even bring in a few of his own players. The trouble is, as is his want, he did rock the boat, and that’s when our form collapsed. It’s a moot point whether the squad is particularly unbalanced. Yes there are areas that need improving, but that would be true of most squads. 

Edited by gurujuan
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2 hours ago, @owlstalk said:


 

What actually happened over the Christmas period to trigger such an almighty collapse?

 

Cant be Monk...

 

He forgot to do the secret Santa at the staff party, all the players had great gifts but Monk decide not to buy anything for his pick Westwood and it all kick off from there.

 

Its like when you watch these nightmare neighbours programs and everything is good until a small thing like the bin is put in the wrong place or the dog poos on their lawn and before you know it they are fighting and wanting to kill each other.

 

I bet when monk looks back now he wishes he had bought Westwood something from the Owls store online Xmas deal be it the 150th Yr top trumps, the play off final t-shirts or a swfc jigsaw. lol

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22 hours ago, daleblue said:

 I have always given the benefit of doubt to someone / something that has not had the best outcome after a short time, if the resources are not up to standard.

 

 I would prefer to see what progress  he can make after making his own signings in the next transfer window.

 this would also give him next Season with players he has chosen to make a statement of intent.

 

 I really don't want him to be sacked just to bring in,

 

 A) another foreign bloke who has no idea of the Championship.

 B) Out of work has been.

 C) Young upcoming Manager who finds himself out of his depth.

 

 I say give Monk a chance.

 

 

Can’t see us under FFP having the means to make any decent new signings, irrespective of who is manager. Real mess

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