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8 minutes ago, Minton said:

Wolves, Villa, Fulham, Brighton, Leicester, Bournemouth, Newcastle and QPR all did. It's certainly not virtually guaranteed, but it's a bloody good start.

 

I agree it can be successful. Had the clubs you mention not managed to get promoted though I have little doubt they would have sold some players to balance the books and refresh the squad, some of them did so anyway.

 

We had half of that kind of strategy and were semi-successful but are now paying the price for not doing the other half. 

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4 minutes ago, morley said:

What concerns me most about all this mess is the situation with our ground.

 

Well it was our ground until DC sold it to another company for £80m to plug a gap in our finances and now it's his ground.

 

If he wants to sell up you would assume that any would be new owner will want to buy the ground back so they will have to find £80m for that before we even start thinking about the football club.

 

I can't see that DC could accept much less than the said £80m without blowing holes in his "valuation" previously submitted to the EFL as part of his attempt to comply with P & S restrictions.

 

Also, he needs £80m as I believe that he has not yet paid the club for the ground so once he has been paid he can then settle his obligations to the club.

 

I have no idea what level of debt the club is carrying but hopefully the £80m ground sale monies will take care of most of this as most of the rest of the club's assets will be worth almost nothing with player contracts running out all over the shop.

 

In this case we probably could get a new buyer if DC agrees to walk away and write of the substantial amount of his own money that he has spent so far, but if he is looking to recover some of his losses I fear we could me in for a long wait while he waits for the right "mug" to come along.

 

Unhappy times and still a long way to go in this saga :sad:

 

 

No it was his ground until he sold it to another company and now it's his ground just separate from swfc ltd.  Purchase price of ground and club still same as before.   

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2 minutes ago, toppOwl said:

 

It was £60m and why would he want money back that hasn't gone anywhere?

Happy to stand corrected if it was £60m. I was speaking from memory because I was too lazy to check.

 

He will need the cost of the ground at valuation because he still has to pay the club for it and the EFL will know beyond doubt that he was taking the pee with the valuation and he will not want to lose face on this matter.

 

He has spent a fortune of his own money. If he is happy to sell and not recoup any of that then we are in with a chance.

 

If on the other hand he wishes to recover a substantial part of his losses or he will not sell, then we have a real problem.

 

His attitude on not selling players when we really needed to suggests that he is more likely to be in the latter camp to me, but then I'm happy to admit that I know nothing.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Weshallovercome said:

 

 

What, like in the 70's?........aah the good old days, where the Owlstalk equivalent was a good gossip in the pub over a pint.

 

Must admit being a codger I do miss those days, but with the club in tatters and seemly locked down, it's natural that supporters speculate.

Pub talk wasn't all that good..there was a bloke claiming itk that used to tell everyone that Tommy Craig dyed his hair ginger..

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5 minutes ago, wellbeaten-the-owl said:

No it was his ground until he sold it to another company and now it's his ground just separate from swfc ltd.  Purchase price of ground and club still same as before.   

Unless the ground is not worth the sum it was valued at is the point that I was trying to make.

 

Would you pay £250k for a terraced house in S6 because that's the price a professional valuation put on it?

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13 minutes ago, morley said:

What concerns me most about all this mess is the situation with our ground.

 

Well it was our ground until DC sold it to another company for £80m to plug a gap in our finances and now it's his ground.

 

If he wants to sell up you would assume that any would be new owner will want to buy the ground back so they will have to find £80m for that before we even start thinking about the football club.

 

I can't see that DC could accept much less than the said £80m without blowing holes in his "valuation" previously submitted to the EFL as part of his attempt to comply with P & S restrictions.

 

Also, he needs £80m as I believe that he has not yet paid the club for the ground so once he has been paid he can then settle his obligations to the club.

 

I have no idea what level of debt the club is carrying but hopefully the £80m ground sale monies will take care of most of this as most of the rest of the club's assets will be worth almost nothing with player contracts running out all over the shop.

 

In this case we probably could get a new buyer if DC agrees to walk away and write of the substantial amount of his own money that he has spent so far, but if he is looking to recover some of his losses I fear we could me in for a long wait while he waits for the right "mug" to come along.

 

Unhappy times and still a long way to go in this saga :sad:

 

 

Sadly yes. What we need is people with football and business accumin with a plan to get us moving in the right direction and ultimately promoted. Unfortunately those types of people won't pay daft money for the club in the first place.  

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10 minutes ago, ChinaOwl said:

 

The valuation was £60 million and it is only a figure on a contract between the seller (the club) and the buyer (another company owned by Chansiri). £60 million didn;t exchange hands, in fact very little of it has been exchanged. Chansiri could pass the deeds onto any new owner without losing exceptional amounts of money. The sale of the ground is the least significant barrier in a sale.

The £60m will have to change hands at some time or there won't have been a valid sale.

 

What do you think the points deduction (or worse) for that could be?

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3 minutes ago, morley said:

Happy to stand corrected if it was £60m. I was speaking from memory because I was too lazy to check.

 

He will need the cost of the ground at valuation because he still has to pay the club for it and the EFL will know beyond doubt that he was taking the pee with the valuation and he will not want to lose face on this matter.

 

He has spent a fortune of his own money. If he is happy to sell and not recoup any of that then we are in with a chance.

 

If on the other hand he wishes to recover a substantial part of his losses or he will not sell, then we have a real problem.

 

His attitude on not selling players when we really needed to suggests that he is more likely to be in the latter camp to me, but then I'm happy to admit that I know nothing.

 

 

 

He doesn't because the club technically owe Chansiri far more than £60 million in loans. So he could simply reduce the loans by £60 million in lieu of payment or keep using staged payments against the ground to inject £60 million more over a stipulated period of time. Or sell up and hand over the deeds to the ground without losing further capital.

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3 hours ago, prowl said:

It doesn't work like that. I'm sure the EFL would want to give us 21 points but they don't get to decide, the INDEPENDENT panel do. The panel is independent of the EFL and rarely (or never) give penalties as severe as the EFL want.

 

In our case they might make an exception.

 

Absolutely - I'm aware how it works. 🙂

 

As I said - the EFL are apparently pushing for it. It is for the independent panel to decide, but as you say recommendations are often given by the EFL as part of the process and on this occasion I'm told the EFL are pushing for the maximum (which is rare in itself).

 

 

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2 minutes ago, owls101 said:

Sadly yes. What we need is people with football and business accumin with a plan to get us moving in the right direction and ultimately promoted. Unfortunately those types of people won't pay daft money for the club in the first place.  

At last, someone that actually understands the seriousness of this ground situation. 

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1 hour ago, Minton said:

 

I don't have exact figures, but the rough workings are 6,000 non ST tickets per game at £33 per game. That is £198,000. Multiply that by 23 home games and you get £4.55m, an increase of £1.4m vs £23. 

 

Even with the falling crowds, we still got 5,000 extra compared to 13/14 - 15/16 too. 

 

That is most definitely not "a drop in the ocean".

 

£1.4M would be close to paying Fletchers wages. Considering all the other players we bought it's not a lot.

 

DC has spent a lot of money on the club, buying it, funding the running of the club and funding the squad. He chose to do it which I appreciate. A lot of the money wasn't spent wisely so there are good and bad aspects of his 'investment.

 

All businesses try to maximise their income, they decide what the market will be prepared for the product and charge that amount. If sales drop they reduce prices and if salesthey stay the same they maximise their income. Sheffield Wednesday are the same, they charge higher POG prices and the fans still turn up. If POG numbers dropped they would be forced to reduce prices. Personally I think the prices for food and drinks are outrageous, that doesn't seem to bother posters.

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10 minutes ago, Mrs Blenkinsops shed said:

NEWCASTLE HARDLY SPENT ANYTHING FFS...

 

i'm sure they spent a fortune

 

They bought Ritchie, Hanley, Clarke and Gayle at least i think 

 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, ChinaOwl said:

 

He doesn't because the club technically owe Chansiri far more than £60 million in loans. So he could simply reduce the loans by £60 million in lieu of payment or keep using staged payments against the ground to inject £60 million more over a stipulated period of time. Or sell up and hand over the deeds to the ground without losing further capital.

That's fair enough.

 

I did say that I couldn't be bothered to look and see what the debt situation was in the last accounts let alone now, which I probably couldn't find out anyway.

 

But in your scenario DC would still have to be prepared to take a huge hit on his pocket to relinquish control unless he got his £60m written off loan back from somewhere else.

 

His loans after all do reflect cash that he has spent over the period of his tenure

 

Do you seriously think he would do that given that he won't let the club take a hit on player sales?

 

(I'm not saying he wouldn't but based on the past I can't see him doing it)

Edited by morley
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3 hours ago, Striggy said:

 

No one has it seems, being wasted maybe, but as i said its a different issue to "Rip Off"  It was meant to benefit the club and make us competitive. Unless anything shows in the accounts we are not paying high prices to pay out huge dividends? 

We were paying higher prices for continued investment in the club and the team can you honestly say this has happened.

 

Or are we paying for all of the players not allowed to play to sit in the stands - Rhodes, Winnall, Hutch, Westwood, Jones, Adbi, Bates to name a few of the players who never seem to play. If we had not wasted on these players wages could we have reduce ticket prices by say £10 a game for every one.

 

You get what you pay for, but we are paying top 2 or 3 ticket prices and getting bottom 6 football - so is this value for money?

 

If you bought a Ford Focus would you pay £60,000 for it because the car company said they were investing in more environmentally friendly fuel or would you say that was a rip off and not pay. lol 

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1 minute ago, morley said:

That's fair enough.

 

I did say that I couldn't be bothered to look and see what the debt situation was in the last accounts let alone now, which I probably couldn't find out anyway.

 

But in your scenario DC would still have to be prepared to take a huge hit on his pocket to relinquish control unless he got his £60m written off loan back from somewhere else.

 

His loans after all do reflect cash that he has spent over the period of his tenure

 

Do you seriously think he would do that given that he won't let the club take a hit on player sales?

 

(I'm not saying he wouldn't but based on the past I can't see him doing it

 

The rest of what you say is a completely separate issue and there are very good reasons why a buyer would have to be seriously demented to buy the club in its present state. But the sale of the ground issue wouldn't be a major factor in that. The residual debt would certainly be.

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13 minutes ago, Mrs Blenkinsops shed said:

NEWCASTLE HARDLY SPENT ANYTHING FFS...

 

They spent £40m, with only £19m going out.

 

THEY SPENT LOADS FFS 

 

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40 minutes ago, Minton said:

 

Because the prices have gone up by 60%...

 

If we have the same number of fans this season as the last MM season and the prices are 60% higher, that would mean 60% more money. That's fairly simple maffs innit.


That’s making the assumption we have the same number of fans paying on the door now as under MM which isn’t true.  
 

The season ticket revenue will have gone up under DC but the POTG revenue has probably gone down.
 

The most we’ll have made from any league game this season would have been the Barnsley and Leeds games when around 6-7k (mainly away fans) paid on the door.

 

In 18 home league this season, I don’t think we’ll have made much more than £1 million in combined revenue from POTG tickets. We’ve only got over 25k in four games and that’s with 21k season tickets 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, ChinaOwl said:

 

The rest of what you say is a completely separate issue and there are very good reasons why a buyer would have to be seriously demented to buy the club in its present state. But the sale of the ground issue wouldn't be a major factor in that. The residual debt would certainly be.

I think we're actually discussing semantics here.

 

DC will have to pay the club for the ground, whether it be by cash or by writing off loans.

 

If he wants to sell the big issue is how much of the residual debt + ground valuation will he want to recover?

 

If he wants a big chunk of it then he, and we, have a problem.

 

Have you any idea what his total loans amount to at this moment in time? (I'm just interested to know)

 

Edit: Just to add - If he's willing to write off the whole lot and walk away for an easier life then he, and we, may just get lucky

Edited by morley
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9 hours ago, WalthamOwl said:

So basically we need DC to get the hell out of our club ASAP. 

 

But as well as owning club he also now owns ground, whatever it was valued at he'll want that money plus rest of it he's thrown at it. 

 

All these players on mega contracts want paying, so if Chansiri said "that's it I'm not putting another penny in, where does money come from?

 

We could become next Bury and Macclesfield within weeks not months.

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