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KivoOwl

"Chansiri has just been badly advised"

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1 minute ago, WatfordOwl said:

If he had any money left, he'd need to be getting a divorce. 

 

Paixao already has the divorce settlement drafted, with his cut included of course. :ph34r:

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Paixao came as part of the package and was introduced to DC by MM on that basis.  MM had a history of dealing with Paixao at Leicester.  The FFP Compliance Consultant, “We have friends”, was also part of the package, also at Leicester with Thai owners and is/was Sir Dave Richards.

 

DC showed shrewdness in the very early days, as documented by Football Leaks (Der Spiegel), when he opted to pay percentages rather than lock, stock and barrel to Doyen’s initial proposal re. the “3 year plan.”

 

I’m pretty sure the scouts brought in by Bruce are still at the club but for me the biggest problem we’ve had, although it can’t be denied we went very close in the first two seasons, is the non-alignment of CC’s team management ¨philosophy”, our transfer policy during that period especially and the toxic legacy it has left us with.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, sonofbert2 said:

Paixao came as part of the package and was introduced to DC by MM on that basis.  MM had a history of dealing with Paixao at Leicester.  The FFP Compliance Consultant, “We have friends”, was also part of the package, also at Leicester with Thai owners and is/was Sir Dave Richards.

 

DC showed shrewdness in the very early days, as documented by Football Leaks (Der Spiegel), when he opted to pay percentages rather than lock, stock and barrel to Doyen’s initial proposal re. the “3 year plan.”

 

I’m pretty sure the scouts brought in by Bruce are still at the club but for me the biggest problem we’ve had, although it can’t be denied we went very close in the first two seasons, is the non-alignment of CC’s team management ¨philosophy”, our transfer policy during that period especially and the toxic legacy it has left us with.

 

 


Aye,  Paxaio was definitely introduced to DC by MM 

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When DC arrived he promised to be financially aggressive but admitted to knowing next to nothing about football. Initially the panel of football people probably prevented that being exploited, but as soon as they went any agent in the world would have seen us as a buffet to feast on.

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Seems like Paxo and Doyen came with the package from Milan.

As with most consultants they would then seek to get their own men into key jobs.

So”advise” DC to get rid of Gray and replace with their own man Carlos.

Get rid of Roeder etc we will sort recruitment for you

Even got rid of CEO so nobody else of influence could advise DC

 

As he didn’t know his *rse from his elbow we were completely in the hands of outsiders.

No real interest in future of the club , only short term .

 

Had a go and nearly succeeded in getting us up. However once they basically lost interest we have been completely lacking in structure and leadership.

 

Must be a nightmare place to work, especially for the manager who has no support and no hiding place.

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1 hour ago, Animis said:

 

Are you saying Paxo was stitched into the deal between MM and DC?


Thought this was common knowledge to be honest 

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1 hour ago, Owls-Fan said:


Disagree to an extent, if Gray was kept on it should have been as assistant to someone like Jokanovic.  But hiring Carvalhal turned out to be the mistake. 
And letting other people choose who gets signed not the manager 

I’m not saying you’re wrong about Carvahal but I’ll remind you he did take us to the playoffs twice and the feeling around the club was exhilarating at that time. It was certainly wrong to hold onto him so long after the second play off failure but if football is about having great memories I’ll hold those two seasons alongside Wembley in 91

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1 hour ago, KivoOwl said:

I see this claim so often when people are defending the chairman. An excuse to let him off the hook - it's not his fault, he just needed advice from people who knew about football and business, and he's been led up the garden path by those he trusted.

 

Let's have a look at the key personnel he's had at his disposal since joining in 2015.

 

Stuart Gray

Experience as a player (Nottm Forest, Barnsley, Aston Villa) and coach (Southampton, Aston Villa, Burnley). Appointed to the 'Sporting Director Committee' in April 2015 while still Head Coach of the first team. Sacked from both roles six weeks later.

 

Glenn Roeder

Experience as a player (Leyton Orient, Crystal Palace, Newcastle United, Watford) and manager (West Ham, Newcastle, Norwich City). Appointed to the 'Sporting Director Committee' in April 2015. Left the club in December 2015.

 

Adam Pearson

Experience as a football executive (commercial director at Leeds United, owner an chairman at Hull City and chairman at Derby County. Appointed to the 'Sporting Director Committee' in April 2015. Left the club one month later.

 

Paul Senior

Experience as a football executive (West Ham, Crystal Palace, Charlton, Tottenham). Appointed to the 'Sporting Director Committee' in April 2015. Left the club in November 2015.

 

Jonathan Hill

Experience in youth coaching (Wigan Athletic, Manchester United, Fulham) Appointed to the 'Sporting Director Committee' in May 2015. Left the club in November 2015.

 

Joe Palmer

Experience as a football executive (director at Shakhtar Donetsk). Appointes as COO in July 2016. Left the club in January 2018.

 

Katrien Meire

Experience as a football executive (Standard Liege, Charlton Athletic). Appointed as CEO in January 2018. Left the club twelve months later.

 

 

The only three people still advising the chairman from key postitions are Amadeu Paixao (agent advising on player recruitment), John Redgate (finance director - currently charged by the EFL for financial misconduct) and Tipparut Chansiri (his wife).

 

 

Boooooom.

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26 minutes ago, Ever the pessimist said:

When DC arrived he promised to be financially aggressive but admitted to knowing next to nothing about football. Initially the panel of football people probably prevented that being exploited, but as soon as they went any agent in the world would have seen us as a buffet to feast on.

 

I get that, but surely Paxo isn't that stupid to essentially run the club into the ground, when he has a vested interest in the outcomes.

 

The other conclusion is I suppose, he's simply incompetent, and any normal football club would have cut ties by now considering his record.

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1 minute ago, Animis said:

 

I get that, but surely Paxo isn't that stupid to essentially run the club into the ground, when he has a vested interest in the outcomes.

 

The other conclusion is I suppose, he's simply incompetent, and any normal football club would have cut ties by now considering his record.

 

The money he generates for himself and his friends isn't necessarily related to how the club performs.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Animis said:

 

I get that, but surely Paxo isn't that stupid to essentially run the club into the ground, when he has a vested interest in the outcomes.

 

The other conclusion is I suppose, he's simply incompetent, and any normal football club would have cut ties by now considering his record.


It maybe the case that DC hasn’t had the opportunity to get rid yet,   MM introduced AP to the club as part of the deal when selling to DC 

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DC has had an absolute nightmare 

 

The execution of some of his plans have been quite frankly embarrassing 

 

He has wasted more money than anyone in our history 

 

So it’s really bad news that he is probably the best chairman we’ve had in my 30 years!!

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I'm not sure that DC readily listens to any advice, which may be the problem.

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7 minutes ago, Mr Farrell said:

 

The money he generates for himself and his friends isn't necessarily related to how the club performs.

 

 

 

Well that's an interesting suggestion. However, it would be strange if a retained agent, someone who apparently formed part of the sale from MM to DC does not have a performance-based fee. If you're suggesting that his recommended and completed player transfers are simply an arms-length transaction with a one-off payment, why does DC persevere with him when the results don't match DC's investment?

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It’s all very easy with hindsight especially in our current predicament but we did aim to strengthen in key areas under CC.

 

The problem was the philosophy of CC relied on a relaxed training/injury regime and a key group of “chosen ones.”

 

A second 11 was effectively frozen out in favour of the core group.  The vast majority of signings over and above the first year, first eleven were only utilised when desperately needed.

 

Rhodes was purchased to guarantee promotion, Winnall too in the same week.  Jones was the midfielder we needed, Venancio and Van Aken the centre halves.  Fletcher prior to Rhodes (cover for Hooper who missed out v Hull through injury.  Abdi was a great signing in the moment etc etc and not forgetting Boyd who in the season prior to joining us covered the most ground in the Premier League.

 

Years down the line one moment and decision sums up where we are at right now and it was dropping Lopez for Hutchinson at Wembley.

 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Royal_D said:


It maybe the case that DC hasn’t had the opportunity to get rid yet,   MM introduced AP to the club as part of the deal when selling to DC 

 

Possibly - but it's been 5 years now. I can't of any industry/business sector where you would continue to employ an agent when results are poor.

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1 hour ago, KivoOwl said:

I see this claim so often when people are defending the chairman. An excuse to let him off the hook - it's not his fault, he just needed advice from people who knew about football and business, and he's been led up the garden path by those he trusted.

 

Let's have a look at the key personnel he's had at his disposal since joining in 2015.

 

Stuart Gray

Experience as a player (Nottm Forest, Barnsley, Aston Villa) and coach (Southampton, Aston Villa, Burnley). Appointed to the 'Sporting Director Committee' in April 2015 while still Head Coach of the first team. Sacked from both roles six weeks later.

 

Glenn Roeder

Experience as a player (Leyton Orient, Crystal Palace, Newcastle United, Watford) and manager (West Ham, Newcastle, Norwich City). Appointed to the 'Sporting Director Committee' in April 2015. Left the club in December 2015.

 

Adam Pearson

Experience as a football executive (commercial director at Leeds United, owner an chairman at Hull City and chairman at Derby County. Appointed to the 'Sporting Director Committee' in April 2015. Left the club one month later.

 

Paul Senior

Experience as a football executive (West Ham, Crystal Palace, Charlton, Tottenham). Appointed to the 'Sporting Director Committee' in April 2015. Left the club in November 2015.

 

Jonathan Hill

Experience in youth coaching (Wigan Athletic, Manchester United, Fulham) Appointed to the 'Sporting Director Committee' in May 2015. Left the club in November 2015.

 

Joe Palmer

Experience as a football executive (director at Shakhtar Donetsk). Appointes as COO in July 2016. Left the club in January 2018.

 

Katrien Meire

Experience as a football executive (Standard Liege, Charlton Athletic). Appointed as CEO in January 2018. Left the club twelve months later.

 

 

The only three people still advising the chairman from key postitions are Amadeu Paixao (agent advising on player recruitment), John Redgate (finance director - currently charged by the EFL for financial misconduct) and Tipparut Chansiri (his wife).

 

It’s obvious the root cause and probably the very reason they all left within a very short period is that despite all their efforts to administer the changes needed Chansiri ignored their recommendations and took the advice of Paixao that has repeatedly shown he is somebody way above his station. Get rid of him and things may start to improve as Chansiri will have to consult football expert closer on hand.

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1 hour ago, DJMortimer said:

My concern is that Paixao has too much influence and that it may be part of the deal (as I seem to recall reading that he is part of the financial set up too). If that's the case, it's possible that Chansiri does not have a straightforward way out. Whether he wants one or not is a different matter.

 

1 hour ago, Animis said:

 

Are you saying Paxo was stitched into the deal between MM and DC?

 

I think Wednesday fans are starting to stumble towards the inevitable conclusion. It's took long enough

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DC's famous loyalty and sense of 'family' may be at play here?

Clearly after spending untold millions we are not currently much further forward.

There can't be sound financial or strategic reasons for carrying on with the same setup, so it must be a personal, ethical or emotional stand on the part of DC.

I've no doubt about his good intentions or his generosity but I do wonder about his judgement.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Animis said:

 

Well that's an interesting suggestion. However, it would be strange if a retained agent, someone who apparently formed part of the sale from MM to DC does not have a performance-based fee. If you're suggesting that his recommended and completed player transfers are simply an arms-length transaction with a one-off payment, why does DC persevere with him when the results don't match DC's investment?

 

And that's the sad thing.

 

Why does DC do a lot of things ?  

 

No logic to someone with no experience dispensing with all help other from those with vested interests.

 

Maybe a year or 2 of getting bent over and seeing cash sploshing up the wall. But 5 years ?

 

Only he knows what he's thinking.

Edited by Mr Farrell

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