Ante's Bubbly Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 11 minutes ago, Ante's Bubbly said: The tactics do not score you goals the players are missing them! The players are performing, but they are not scoring goals at one end, because our finishing percentage is way below average for the division and we are giving too many away at the other, because the defence and midfield are put under extra pressure due to us wasting so many chances. When the whole team shape changes, as we go forward to try and score a goal, it does not take a mastermind to realise that if you don't score that goal, you are soon going to be in trouble at the other end of the pitch. That my friend is a very simple fact in football. Whether you like it or not, when an attack breaks down, every player over 12 instinctively knows it, every coach, every fan that has played, or watched and understood what they are watching, knows this. Why do you struggle so much with it? Teams have been promoted, or saved from relegation, when a poor penalty, or a poor direct free kick has then been sent down the other end. It is not always as dramatic as that, but corners and attacking open play at one end of the pitch can very quickly turn against you if you do not put the ball in the net, or in the stand and we are not putting the ball in the net often enough, especially at home. Anybody who witnessed Fletcher head that ball in last week to give us our first home goal in eight and a half hours, or whatever it was, will tell you that we need to score more goals. The one player that has scored regularly for us this season has a career maximum of just 13 goals in a season (before this season) and that was 12 years ago, in Scotland! We need to find players for our squad next season, that score more goals. We have been over and over this fact, because we do not have any prolific goalscorers at the club at all. All of our players are low scoring players, our strikers, midfielders, wingers and defenders. The two players who have been prolific, scored goals when they were playing more regularly with their previous clubs, but have not scored enough goals for us when they have been played on a regular basis. Rhodes used to score for fun until a few seasons before he joined us on loan. Sam Winall scored 32 goals in 65 league games, over two seasons games for Barnsley, before he joined us, but Connor Wickham has never been prolific scoring just 8 goals in all his seasons combined at Palace, which amounted to just 41 games and at Sunderland he only scored 11 in 72 games. Atdhe Nuhiu scored 11 goals for us in just 26 games (2017/18), Forestieri scored his best ever return of 15 in 39 games for us, back in 2015/16, with his previous 13 goals scored for Watford in 58 games, over two seasons. Murphy and Harris have similar goal scoring records of 6 in 70 games for Harris and 8 in 77 games for Murphy, although he has been in great form for us so far. Barry Bannan, 10 goals in 187 league games for us, Luongo 10 in 145 for QPR, Reach 18/158 for us, Lees 9/206, Palmer 1/209, Fox 3/88, Borner 1/30, Iorfa 4/42, Lee 20/191, Hutchinson 4/143. Our most prolific player, is a loan player with 18 goals over 41 games in a season playing for Rangers in Scotland and funnily enough he has scored two goals in two starts for us and looked lively when he came on this Saturday showing our other attacking players how to score again! Without Winnall or Rhodes, who have both disappointed over a few seasons now and according to our squads best goal scoring stats, our highest goal scoring team would be:- Any goalie Iorfa Lees Borner Fox Murphy Windass Luongo Reach Fletcher Nuhiu Using their best goal scoring statistics we could score just 1.85 goals and yes Nuhiu's 11 goals in 26 (0.423 per game) is better than Forestieri's 15 in 39 (0.384 per game) games, although I have included Luongo in the 11, on a lower goal scoring score than FF, because it gives us a balanced team with a defensive minded running midfielder alongside our second highest goal threat of Josh Windass. If we skipped the defensive side of midfield and put FF in we could possibly score 2.166 goals, so, considering that we could possibly only score another quarter of a goal, yet would be more likely to concede one at the other end, I think the team shown would be the most likely one to get us the better goal difference. It is still not very impressive though is it? So Monk must get some more prolific players in, with players like Luongo that are capable of scoring more goals, same for the defenders and most importantly of all we definitely need strikers capable of scoring closer to 20 a season than we have now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jack Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 If anyone still thinks are players are good enough, cannot not have watched us very much over the last 4 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ante's Bubbly Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 16 hours ago, Nero said: I get sick of the arguments about what's wrong. It seems that the most important thing to Owlstalk is to prove who is right and wrong about what's happened. It's not. The most important thing is to stop the slump. And as much as people may want to see it differently Chansiri isnt going anywhere. The players are the ones who will be wearing the shirt for the rest of the season. That's the reality. So in the real world suggesting what can be done to change the way it's going is the only thing that's worth hearing. There is only one card to play and that's to change the bloke who cant motivate the players, plays a crap brand of football, is tactically inept and is picking a different formation of the team every week through desperation not strategy. Theres only one option in the real world. He's done. So you are going for another short term solution? We have had three or four short term solutions over the past 5 seasons. Somebody with a greater attention span than that of your average goldfish and the footballing brains of somebody more knowledgeable than DC's son or Mr Paixao (who knows more about making money out of rich mugs), needs to take hold of whatever finances available, empty our squad of the under performing players and fill it back up with players that are prepared and capable of delivering us more goals than we are conceding right now. That means goal scoring, goal making midfielders that can tackle, defenders that make less mistakes and can score goals more often than this lot and strikers that can battle at both ends of the pitch and score an above average number of goals for a championship striker. That would give us a good chance for the next four or five seasons, of actually building something for the long term and if we are very looking we may even achieve promotion, with a team that stands a chance of staying up once promoted. If this lot got promoted, we would be the laughing stock of the division no matter whether we could persuade Klopp to manage us or not! Some of them could scrape through on hard work and determination, but the team are only as strong as the weakest player and the vast majority of our players are weak and simply not good enough! That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owls Loyal Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 I think we all accept that the squad has weaknesses and that there are clearly issues around resilience with all the added time goals conceded but the team was pretty similar under Steve Bruce and we were doing significantly better than under Monk. Mid table form maybe but the current form is far worse than that of the Championship relegation zone teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch McLovin Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 On 01/03/2020 at 08:34, Pale Rider said: Not defending Monk, but you’re way off the mark, the team has no character, bottle,bullocks, call it what you want. As soon as we concede they collapse. This is true but Monk is a big part of the problem.... should have gone weeks ago ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ante's Bubbly Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Owls Loyal said: I think we all accept that the squad has weaknesses and that there are clearly issues around resilience with all the added time goals conceded but the team was pretty similar under Steve Bruce and we were doing significantly better than under Monk. Mid table form maybe but the current form is far worse than that of the Championship relegation zone teams. Under the short term management of Bruce last season, we did a bit better, just as we did up to Christmas with Monk, except Monk got us to 3rd. Given the injuries and illnesses that have befallen our team this season and the performance dropping off for a good number of our players, most notably the players that Bruce fetched in, I reckon that we would probably have seen something very similar under Bruce. Given that Harris, Borner, Iorfa and Odubajo all came in under Bruce and all four really need looking after in every game (because they are prone to making at least a couple of goal scoring opportunities for the opposition per game between them), would you really want Bruce to make all the decisions for bringing in new players this summer, or someone like Monk that wants players that also have brains and leadership qualities? Out of the managers touted at the time I would rather have seen Rowett come in for us as manager, but we do not have Rowett, we have Monk. If our club had proper ambitions and could have attracted somebody like Chris Hughton, or Gus Poyet, or another manager that was already coaching another club, but was thought to be just the right man for the job, then hurray, well done DC, but there seems to be a list of reasons why certain managers are not interested in managing us. Monk knew that he was on a hiding to nothing, but still took the job, possibly because he thought he could make it to the summer and then give us the kind of squad we deserve after so many near misses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owls Loyal Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 This analysis is largely hypothetical. However we do know the facts of the all too short Steve Bruce reign and the results were better than those now under Monk. Many of the squad are the same so why the difference? It is about man management imo. Bruce has several promotions to the Premier League on his CV whereas Monk has won absolutely nothing, not even secured a play off position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichSheffWeds Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 On 01/03/2020 at 08:22, crookesowl said: Monk could have Liverpool’s squad and it would go wrong. He has blasted the players for mistakes and lack of effort time and time again. Many fans have lapped this up - evident yesterday with chants of “you’re not fit to wear the shirt” echoing round Hillsborough. Of course players have good days and bad days and they make mistakes. But for me the manager has to take full responsibility for our current position. The players look lost. They are frustrated at the tactics. They aren’t performing because they are trying to make a broken formula work. You could argue Monk has had a bad deal without his own coaching team but we were warned about this happening by fans of other clubs. The situation has become critical and Monk has to go. These players confidence is shot and they need someone with new ideas and fresh energy to fix it. Monk out! what utter nonsense. Monk has had no pre-season. Couldnt bring in his own coaches. And ultimately is dealing with a dysfunctional group of ageing players who have been consistent failures. These players will happily throw a manager under the bus if he disputes their comfortable existence. Any reasonable judgement can only be given on Monk when he has his own coaches, brings in his players and had a summer with them. Maybe judge him at Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 4 hours ago, Ante's Bubbly said: So you are going for another short term solution? We have had three or four short term solutions over the past 5 seasons. Somebody with a greater attention span than that of your average goldfish and the footballing brains of somebody more knowledgeable than DC's son or Mr Paixao (who knows more about making money out of rich mugs), needs to take hold of whatever finances available, empty our squad of the under performing players and fill it back up with players that are prepared and capable of delivering us more goals than we are conceding right now. That means goal scoring, goal making midfielders that can tackle, defenders that make less mistakes and can score goals more often than this lot and strikers that can battle at both ends of the pitch and score an above average number of goals for a championship striker. That would give us a good chance for the next four or five seasons, of actually building something for the long term and if we are very looking we may even achieve promotion, with a team that stands a chance of staying up once promoted. If this lot got promoted, we would be the laughing stock of the division no matter whether we could persuade Klopp to manage us or not! Some of them could scrape through on hard work and determination, but the team are only as strong as the weakest player and the vast majority of our players are weak and simply not good enough! That's it. I don't know if you've noticed but we need a short term solution. Saying the players aren't good enough isn't it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightace Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 18 hours ago, RichSheffWeds said: what utter nonsense. Monk has had no pre-season. Couldnt bring in his own coaches. And ultimately is dealing with a dysfunctional group of ageing players who have been consistent failures. These players will happily throw a manager under the bus if he disputes their comfortable existence. Any reasonable judgement can only be given on Monk when he has his own coaches, brings in his players and had a summer with them. Maybe judge him at Christmas. That's my opinion too. Monk puts out good players who let him down. Many have done for a few years now. They play well one game and shocking the next three. It can't all be down to monk stiffling them. Why does it work one game but not the next. They have brains. They should be able to think on their own during games. He doesn't make them ball watch, give balls away, make their passing terrible or tell them to miss chances or not bother creating any. He needs his own staff, to get rid of at least 5 players and bring 4 or 5 in. We need a new keeper for definite. Way too inconsistent. He might not be the man but it's way too early to judge him. But if they let him go in the summer and want a clean slate then I can understand. But we need a proper clear out. And not the owlsman kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsons Cross Owl Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 On 01/03/2020 at 08:22, crookesowl said: Monk could have Liverpool’s squad and it would go wrong. He has blasted the players for mistakes and lack of effort time and time again. Many fans have lapped this up - evident yesterday with chants of “you’re not fit to wear the shirt” echoing round Hillsborough. Of course players have good days and bad days and they make mistakes. But for me the manager has to take full responsibility for our current position. The players look lost. They are frustrated at the tactics. They aren’t performing because they are trying to make a broken formula work. You could argue Monk has had a bad deal without his own coaching team but we were warned about this happening by fans of other clubs. The situation has become critical and Monk has to go. These players confidence is shot and they need someone with new ideas and fresh energy to fix it. Monk out! Monk is blameless, it`s the players. Wait until this time next year, I reckon once the deadwood is cleared we will be a force to be reckoned with next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ante's Bubbly Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 17 hours ago, Nero said: I don't know if you've noticed but we need a short term solution. Saying the players aren't good enough isn't it. No we do not. Unless the worlds best guaranteed success on a plate manager is willing to come in and fill Monk's boots and get all the backing that Chansiri can give him to buy a new set of players in the summer for peanuts, or the EFL collapses and decides to let Chansiri spend as much as he likes, when he raises another £60M by selling the training ground to his pet snake, then there are no short term solutions out there that will improve us in any way whatsoever apart from papering over the cracks. Short term we are average to poor, right now. Things might improve a bit and we might have a few decent results. Some of our unfit loan players, may start to get a bitter fitter and put in a good shift. Other players that have been popular to slag off (because those fans do not understand what a proper footballer does for the team) will come back and make a difference, but not enough to propel us into the dreamland that some of our fans live in. I am pretty sure that too many fans think that everything can be put right if you throw enough money at it. They are wrong. One clued up person in charge of our budget would have invested more into the skill of finding good quality players with the right attitude and the kind of wages we can afford to pay without invoking the wrath of the EFL and stopping the rebuilding of the team before it was complete. DC has surrounded himself with sycophants and big wage earners and what have they given him? We have had a procession of clowns who are as good as Chansiri at spending loads of money, but would not know a money grabbing agent or charlatan, or even care, as long as the money being spent is not theirs. If we get a hefty points deduction we will go down a division if we get an average points deduction we might have a bit of excitement fighting off relegation, but to all intents and purposes, this season is finished, bar the booing! We have a chairman owner who has kept spending money as if he is out on a family trip around Meadowhell the day after payday, with absolutely no thought about the consequences. Quite a few of us argued against the club making stupid loan signings like Connor Wickham because he is on £60k a week and whatever we end up paying will be too much, just to get an unfit player fit for Palace. We should have made a long term signing, by taking a younger fitter striker on loan with a pre-contractual agreement in place in the event he impressed us enough to get a contract with us. Not thinking about the long term and having quick knee jerk expensive signings with high wages, is what has got us into the mess we are now in. You could not even give Chansiri 50 quid to buy us a decent birthday cake, because he would spend so much on the sponge that there would be nothing left for the cream, the icing, or the candles! We need a long term solution and hopefully it will start this summer, with Monk surrounding himself with people that he knows can do their job, whether they be coaches, scouts, or players. The old lot can all go for me. Yes some have tried a bit harder and looked a bit better now that their contracts are running out, but quite honestly, if Monk does not want them at the club, they can all go. Sadly as some have mentioned that should include coaches like Bullen, because we have enough junior coaches that can go back to their full time jobs when Monk gets the staff he needs. Even some of the U23 and junior coaches should be worried, considering the lack of players coming through to the first team. mediocrity must stop now and everybody at the club should be striving to be the best they can, or say goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalmJimmers Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 The lack of a strategy and having key organisational positions filled with talented people is the problem, right the way through the club. No CEO, no DoF, no assistant managers. Who is running the day to day? Are we joined up from top to bottom of this club? You can blame the manager & players until the cows come home. We appear to have been rudderless for a period. Bring in talented people at key positions all pulling in one direction and we could go somewhere, or we can keep hoping one person down the chain will change everything and we will ride off into the sun (sort of like what happened with dem blayads, so it could happen I guess!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Ante's Bubbly said: No we do not. Unless the worlds best guaranteed success on a plate manager is willing to come in and fill Monk's boots and get all the backing that Chansiri can give him to buy a new set of players in the summer for peanuts, or the EFL collapses and decides to let Chansiri spend as much as he likes, when he raises another £60M by selling the training ground to his pet snake, then there are no short term solutions out there that will improve us in any way whatsoever apart from papering over the cracks. Short term we are average to poor, right now. Things might improve a bit and we might have a few decent results. Some of our unfit loan players, may start to get a bitter fitter and put in a good shift. Other players that have been popular to slag off (because those fans do not understand what a proper footballer does for the team) will come back and make a difference, but not enough to propel us into the dreamland that some of our fans live in. I am pretty sure that too many fans think that everything can be put right if you throw enough money at it. They are wrong. One clued up person in charge of our budget would have invested more into the skill of finding good quality players with the right attitude and the kind of wages we can afford to pay without invoking the wrath of the EFL and stopping the rebuilding of the team before it was complete. DC has surrounded himself with sycophants and big wage earners and what have they given him? We have had a procession of clowns who are as good as Chansiri at spending loads of money, but would not know a money grabbing agent or charlatan, or even care, as long as the money being spent is not theirs. If we get a hefty points deduction we will go down a division if we get an average points deduction we might have a bit of excitement fighting off relegation, but to all intents and purposes, this season is finished, bar the booing! We have a chairman owner who has kept spending money as if he is out on a family trip around Meadowhell the day after payday, with absolutely no thought about the consequences. Quite a few of us argued against the club making stupid loan signings like Connor Wickham because he is on £60k a week and whatever we end up paying will be too much, just to get an unfit player fit for Palace. We should have made a long term signing, by taking a younger fitter striker on loan with a pre-contractual agreement in place in the event he impressed us enough to get a contract with us. Not thinking about the long term and having quick knee jerk expensive signings with high wages, is what has got us into the mess we are now in. You could not even give Chansiri 50 quid to buy us a decent birthday cake, because he would spend so much on the sponge that there would be nothing left for the cream, the icing, or the candles! We need a long term solution and hopefully it will start this summer, with Monk surrounding himself with people that he knows can do their job, whether they be coaches, scouts, or players. The old lot can all go for me. Yes some have tried a bit harder and looked a bit better now that their contracts are running out, but quite honestly, if Monk does not want them at the club, they can all go. Sadly as some have mentioned that should include coaches like Bullen, because we have enough junior coaches that can go back to their full time jobs when Monk gets the staff he needs. Even some of the U23 and junior coaches should be worried, considering the lack of players coming through to the first team. mediocrity must stop now and everybody at the club should be striving to be the best they can, or say goodbye. Well I'm not sure sacking the players coach and owner is the answer as I haven't seen anything from Monk to make me think he is the bloke to turn it round. I admire your passion though and who knows who is right. If we stay up and he turns it round I'll be the first to hold my hand up. UTO. Edited March 3, 2020 by Nero 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ante's Bubbly Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, Nero said: Well I'm not sure sacking the players coach and owner is the answer as I haven't seen anything from Monk to make me think he is the bloke to turn it round. I admire your passion though and who knows who is right. If we stay up and he turns it round I'll be the first to hold my hand up. UTO. There is no quick fix mate that is the point. If you know anything at all after all your years of watching football you must know that there is no such thing as a quick fix when the team gets to this state. Surely we have all seen it here and at dozens of other clubs, over the years. The whole psychology of the club, including the fans, needs to change and it has to come from the top, all the way down through the club. We are not minted, we are not a pushover for close to retirement high wage earners wanting to top up their pensions, or put their kids through school, we are a struggling football club that needs a long term plan and have needed one since MM left. This is not being said through hindsight either, plenty of fans have said the same on here for several years now and we are finally reaping what was sowed. If you want to blame the whole thing on one person, then it is pretty obvious to anybody looking in that this situation has built up over several years now, so that one person is not Gary Monk. Whether he is the right man to take us forward or not, who knows? We only saw him have a proper go at it until the players spat their dummies out when their agents told them that they were not discussing new contracts with the club! He seemed to be doing ok until then! What is Monk supposed to say to the players when the club is not discussing new contracts with them? These forums are pretty much a waste of time for a lot of people who are just too naive to understand what is going on! As for the idiots that love to hear their own moaning voices on radio Sheffield every week, what a set of mardy @rsed twits they are! Our once humorous, supportive fans seem to have been infiltrated by a load of lilly livered fantasists! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevdi9 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 (edited) is it 4 clubs in four years or five in five , and sacked or left under a cloud with some players frozen out at said clubs and always the quote is that they do not fit into his plans , yep that alone instil's the utmost confidence in our manager Edited March 3, 2020 by trevdi9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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