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crookesowl

Stop blaming the players - it’s Monk

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56 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:


One thing that dispels all the thoughts that this is Monks fault is this..

 

These players are players that are supposedly playing for a new contract.. 

 

And they’re playing like they are.

 

No way that’s Monk’s fault

I would normally agree with this but what stands out for me & what concerns me is the single issue of the 'Lees / Iorfa' situation, and what Monk saw to make the decision he did. Not just yesterday but over the last few weeks. 

 

It seemed clear to everyone that the Borner / Iorfa partnership should have been reinstated at the earliest opportunity, especially yesterday when the first choice fullbacks were both now back. 

 

Yeah, there are other issues that scream at you, but this one single issue mystifies me & puts massive doubt in my mind regarding Monk's decision making. 

 

This was a very simple choice, if he can't get that one right I have grave reservations about more difficult choices going forward regardless of the other 'issues'. 

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1 hour ago, crookesowl said:


Absolutely. 
 

But my main point is people laying blame at players and chanting they aren’t fit to wear the shirt is wrong. From what I can see they do try and implement whatever the hell Monk tells them to do but when it doesn’t work he blames the players and he does it publicly. The fans lap it up.
 

Mistakes happen but they are usually exacerbated by clueless tactics. It’s the manager and sadly the chairman that are to blame. 
 

Monk will not turn this around. Even when we were third, was anyone enjoying it? Were we battering teams? Was Hillsborough ever rocking? Nope.

 

There’s a lot in this post I agree with.  I’ve never been one to boo our own players or join in with the derogatory chanting - don’t much care for threads singling out individual players to take the blame.  Tactics are poor, our pre Christmas performance level was disappointing, even if points total suggested otherwise and I don’t think Monk is the man to turn it round.

 

What I can’t agree with is the suggestion that the players are blameless.  All parties are contributing to this unholy mess.

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30 minutes ago, oldishowl said:


Let’s be clear.

Monk might have struggled recently but changing the manager again will fix nothing 

It might...

 

I've up until this point kinda been on monks side, he is trying to do what most fans know what needs doing regarding the squad.  However, our performances are shambolic and unless something is done, we shall be going down ( I've no doubt we will have a points deduction)

 

Getting in a new face MIGHT give us a few wins that may keep us in this division.

I would be willing to take that gamble.

 

 

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I'm not sure whether its Monk's fault or not. But, I'd like to guess we wouldn't have scored either of those two goals Derby did, after the 'individual mistakes.' Also I feel teams have been told before recent matches,we will panic under pressure. We have nobody, except Bannan, Fletch, and Dave,  who can control and hold onto the ball, then pass to a teammate. eg watch Rooney. Under pressure every player yesterday lost/gave away the ball consistently. Other visiting teams don't do this. It's basic stuff that the manager should be able to take for granted. Monk says in his interviews that the things he asks players to do are working in training, but under pressure the players fold. I'm inclined to believe its the players. 

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17 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:


 

Think you put the word toxic in front of the wrong person in that post

Leave him alone "toxic" is the new buzz word 

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There's no simple fix here.

 

The majority of the expensive players (except for Rhodes) were bought in 2016 or whist we were under a soft embargo.

 

The one area where we haven't added any strength or quality is midfield. EVERY midfield that has come to Hillsborough this season has been better than ours. No midfield = no forward progression and no defensive protection. We have no midfield and in Baz we have a good player that tries to play a worldy pass with every ball...once or twice it has come off. Our midfield doesn't pass their way around other midfields, other midfields do with us.

 

Our issues

 

Lees isn't a captain (never has been) and he's lost his nerve now.

Lee used to be box to box magnificent but he's not in the game for 80% of the time.

Baz cannot boss any player he comes up against

Fox and Palmer are ok and would look better in a better team.

Dawson panics and flaps and makes his defence nervous.

We have no real quality, pace or goal scoring threat...

 

12th is about right for this squad...Monk can't change that until the summer.

 

I'm one of the 12,000 that hasn't yet renewed their season ticket...maybe DC will get the message sooner or later.

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The season ticket sales have been strong under DC but irrespective of the shocking results does anyone really want to pay to watch the Toxic Monk's brand of football?

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33 minutes ago, bigthinrob said:

I would normally agree with this but what stands out for me & what concerns me is the single issue of the 'Lees / Iorfa' situation, and what Monk saw to make the decision he did. Not just yesterday but over the last few weeks. 

 

It seemed clear to everyone that the Borner / Iorfa partnership should have been reinstated at the earliest opportunity, especially yesterday when the first choice fullbacks were both now back. 

 

Yeah, there are other issues that scream at you, but this one single issue mystifies me & puts massive doubt in my mind regarding Monk's decision making. 

 

This was a very simple choice, if he can't get that one right I have grave reservations about more difficult choices going forward regardless of the other 'issues'. 


I agree with you here

 

But my point stands is that the team contains players out of contract very soon who would typically be busting their balls to win a new one

 

Either they don’t care if they do get a new contract, or even worse they’ve been told they’re not going to get one in the summer

 

Either way it’s just not good enough 

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22 minutes ago, the monk said:

Leave him alone "toxic" is the new buzz word 

 

We'll add it to the list, just beneath 'hapless'.

 

I loved that fortnight when every other post was misusing that one!

 

:duntmatter:

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It’s both the manager and players.

j

Hypothetically would Bruce be doing better with these players - absolutely! I’d like to think many of the current championship managers would be doing better too. 

 

However as we know some of these players been here to long, ageing, on big contracts and happy to go through the motions and not put a proper shift in on match day - absolutely! 
 

The whole thing needs a revolution/reset button hitting starting right at the top with DC. 

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Posted (edited)

Playing CBs together with no pace or ability to recover and expecting the technically gifted Lees to be comfortable in possession when pressed and your teams out ball is, and always has been doomed to failure.

Different Managers are making the same mistakes in this regard...except Bruce with Iorfa [and possibly Carlos with van Aken who couldn’t defend] who saw we needed pace at the back and the ability/composure to bring the ball out and start moves.
 

Monk would have helped himself if he had watched videos of the previous three seasons to have an understanding of what these players are and are not capable of...

 

Its just a repeat s.hitshow all round with added negativity and player confusion.

Edited by Flat Owl

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48 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:


I agree with you here

 

But my point stands is that the team contains players out of contract very soon who would typically be busting their balls to win a new one

 

Either they don’t care if they do get a new contract, or even worse they’ve been told they’re not going to get one in the summer

 

Either way it’s just not good enough 

Totally agree, this is a terrible situation if either is true and given performances, you would think one scenario must be.

Players turning out every week who have no future or don't want to be at the club !

Either way, it's also down to poor management of the situation.

 

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Monk had a terrible reputation (apart from at Swansea) at all his previous clubs at this level. What worried me most about his appointment in the first place, was that he had never made the top 6 at this level and he had never stuck anywhere longer than a year. We need rebuilding and we've needed that ever since the failed play off campaigns, we still lack in the areas we needed strengthening after Wembley.

 

Nothing Monk has ever done at his previous jobs or here, suggests he's worth sticking with and rebuilding with? Yes, we're a shambles off the pitch, we need a DOF or CEO and to start doing things more sensibly but we're just as directionless, inept and leaderless on the pitch as we appear off it. It would take a more proven, strong minded and more experienced manager just to stabilise us, to keep us up and to rebuild with after the wee wee tail up made of the Bruce replacement. Bruce leaving us in the lurch was the worst thing that could have happened at the time because that's the type of manager we desperately need.

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3 hours ago, latemodelchild said:

What I don't get is why Monk tells the players to allow deflected goals into our net and give away the ball in our half instead of clearing it. Especially after he told them not to do it on Wednesday night. You'd think he'd learn. 

This baffles me as well.  I can’t work out why Monk tells Bannan to disappear out of the middle when the going gets rough and not track back or why he tells Tom Lees to not jump with his man in the last minute at Brum.  There’s a thread on here saying how well Windass played (and he did play well) and another saying they don’t trust Monk to find players on the cheap who can do a job.  He needs some time to clear out and rebuild and bring his own team in, them let’s judge him. 

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The thought of Toxic Monk having anything to do with the rebuild is truly frightening.

 

He has never won anything as a football manager and I have zero confidence in his tactical ability or powers of motivation.

 

Watching us get bossed by the then bottom three teams in the Championship in quick succession: Wigan, Barnsley and Luton was horrendous.

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6 hours ago, crookesowl said:

The players look lost.


The players should be able to play and receive relatively short passes without flipping it up...

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Any half decent manager doesn't burn his bridges with key players. 

* Westwood commands his area better than Dawson imho and could give him a much needed break - the lad looks jaded.

* Hutch, yes injury prone but when fit why would you not include him especially as Luongo is injured. 

Monk has painted himself into a corner with these 2 and the sooner he swallows his pride an brings them back in the sooner the team will see the benefit. 

Poor man management if you ask me. 

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10 hours ago, Owl 44 said:

Agree. We conceded first yesterday and then utterly cacked our pants for next 30 minutes which is what led to those two individual errors. 

Absolutely we did - however it was Monk that set us up with a four man midfield who have no defensive responsibility whatsoever. Murphy and Harris are not the type of wide men who naturally track back or smell danger. Lee and Bannan were non-existent in that 30 mins. Bannan just wants to play the fancy balls and has no presence and Lee just kept drifting out of the centre meaning Derby had a free run at our back 4. Their numbers 38 and 41 had a field day with Rooney pulling the strings behind them.

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10 hours ago, crookesowl said:

Monk could have Liverpool’s squad and it would go wrong. 
 

He has blasted the players for mistakes and lack of effort time and time again. Many fans have lapped this up - evident yesterday with chants of “you’re not fit to wear the shirt” echoing round Hillsborough. 
 

Of course players have good days and bad days and they make mistakes. But for me the manager has to take full responsibility for our current position. The players look lost. They are frustrated at the tactics. 
 

They aren’t performing because they are trying to make a broken formula work. 
 

You could argue Monk has had a bad deal without his own coaching team but we were warned about this happening by fans of other clubs. 
 

The situation has become critical and Monk has to go. These players confidence is shot and they need someone with new ideas and fresh energy to fix it. 
 

Monk out! 

They aren't playing for him that's for sure,a proper manager gets this team playing, ala Bruce

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10 hours ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

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I can still blame them a little bit, though - right?

 

:duntmatter:

When the first goal went in they had 4 players in our box. 2nd goal they had 6 players in our half when we lost the ball. Pressing, offensive football. 

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