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18 hours ago, Bouncing Owl said:


I agree with you. I’d also add that he’s never a captain as long as he’s got an hole in his a$$ and when partnered with a natural leader and organiser, you will also get the best out of him. He was great alongside, Loovens.

what do you see that every manager he has played under here doesn't?...they know him they work with him they happy to have him as skipper.

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36 minutes ago, torryowl said:

what do you see that every manager he has played under here doesn't?...they know him they work with him they happy to have him as skipper.


Well, I will say they are all wrong. That’s one of our problems, we haven’t a leader. Nigel Pearson was a great captain for

us and more recently, so was Glenn Loovens. You only have to listen to Tom Lees when being interviewed to realise he’s not a captain. 

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Derby are/were below us in the league table and yet they were the only team on Saturday, especially in the first half, that worked as a team (offering up passes, movement off the ball, regrouping when not in possession, etc.).

 

Lees' game, whether by design or accident like many of the others, comprises of looking up and hoofing the ball downfield. These are plays that are easily countered - just put a defender in front and one behind the Owls' target man, and he can't jump. Wednesday lose possession again and refer back to the first paragraph.

 

Compound that tactic with a squad whose confidence is shot to pieces (no better illustrated that Tom Lees) and you have a perfect storm which gives rise to ever deceasing performances.

 

Poor performance means less likely to get a result.

 

If Monk really believes that well worn cliche that "getting that first win" will turn the tide, he should be sacked and never be allowed to work in football ever again.

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On 29/02/2020 at 19:16, Mister Soul said:

Sorry but he sticks out like a sore thumb. Anyone that’s played a team game can recognise that if you got a player lacking confidence it disrupts even the best players .. the reason Bannan was dropping 20yds back for a few weeks was simply cause he could the cards in defence ( and credit it to him) .. people was asking why at the time. Panic in defence created by Lees

Bannan has been dropping back 20 yards for 3 years. It's what he does, no idea why he would do it to cover for Lees, Bannan can't tackle.

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On 29/02/2020 at 20:02, McRightSide said:

I don’t understand why Monk is so reluctant to go with Iorfa and Börner

 

Lees is a good player but desperately needs a change of scenery

Because Iorfa has been awful in some games recently. I'm not saying he is awful because he has also been brilliant in other games. He went from being reliable to 'you don't know what you are going to get'.

 

Saturday he was on it and his speed got us out of trouble several times.

 

Let's face it all of our defenders have mistakes in them but they are left exposed by a weak midfield. Bannan isn't a tackler and although Lee is good at intercepting and nicking the ball he's not a hard physical player.

 

I'm not excusing Tom Lees performance on Saturday because it was poor but he has been a good defender. Him and Loovens were excellent. He does seem to need an organiser next to him and I think Westwood helps in that respect but Loovens and Hector going are the big misses..

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It is pretty damming when the club captain is getting hauled off at half time. 

 

I know that Lees has had some dips during his time with us, but he looks so devoid of confidence now. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, prowl said:

Bannan has been dropping back 20 yards for 3 years. It's what he does, no idea why he would do it to cover for Lees, Bannan can't tackle.

Human instinct.. ball ain’t coming to me, so I better get nearer to it 

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5 hours ago, prowl said:

Because Iorfa has been awful in some games recently. I'm not saying he is awful because he has also been brilliant in other games. He went from being reliable to 'you don't know what you are going to get'.

 

Saturday he was on it and his speed got us out of trouble several times.

 

Let's face it all of our defenders have mistakes in them but they are left exposed by a weak midfield. Bannan isn't a tackler and although Lee is good at intercepting and nicking the ball he's not a hard physical player.

 

I'm not excusing Tom Lees performance on Saturday because it was poor but he has been a good defender. Him and Loovens were excellent. He does seem to need an organiser next to him and I think Westwood helps in that respect but Loovens and Hector going are the big misses..

 

He's certainly got a mistake in him but Iorfa's struggled most when Monk's shoehorned him to right back to accommodate Lees/cover for Fox's absence. 

 

Despite his failings, at least he has plenty of pace to cover for his, and others, mistakes more often than not.... Tom Lees on the other hand....

 

Monk needs to decide who his central pairing are going to be, (shouldn't be too difficult,) and let them settle. 

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15 minutes ago, Bleeder said:

 

He's certainly got a mistake in him but Iorfa's struggled most when Monk's shoehorned him to right back to accommodate Lees/cover for Fox's absence. 

 

Despite his failings, at least he has plenty of pace to cover for his, and others, mistakes more often than not.... Tom Lees on the other hand....

 

Monk needs to decide who his central pairing are going to be, (shouldn't be too difficult,) and let them settle. 


100%. Your asking for trouble changing your centre half partnership week in week out 

 

To take your centre half and captain off at half time is some call ,  not sure how TL comes back from it 

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I feel for Lees to a degree. Both him and Borner are often having to step into midfield or play the ball out after Bannan has completed his one two with them. Also little to no protection from our midfield four. 
 

That said, there’s little to no upside in him. Iorfa has to play as if he can get rid of the mistakes he’s worth a fortune. 

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On 01/03/2020 at 12:34, McRightSide said:


Nonsense.

 

Its completely normal for different environments to reinvigorate people in all walks of life.

 

Insofar as Tom Lees, just look how many good performances we’ve had from him vs how Leeds fans felt about him leaving

 

My guess is the numpties on here will mock whoever signs him, whilst the team that signs him can’t believe they’ve got a player like him when he undoubtedly plays well for them.

 

Good player, needs a change of scenery 

Monk gave him a change of scenery at half time 

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1 hour ago, Mister Soul said:

Human instinct.. ball ain’t coming to me, so I better get nearer to it 

Trouble is Bannan then passes the ball straight back to the defender who passed the ball to him. It's just something he does 90% of the time.

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7 hours ago, prowl said:

Because Iorfa has been awful in some games recently. I'm not saying he is awful because he has also been brilliant in other games. He went from being reliable to 'you don't know what you are going to get'.

 

Saturday he was on it and his speed got us out of trouble several times.

 

Let's face it all of our defenders have mistakes in them but they are left exposed by a weak midfield. Bannan isn't a tackler and although Lee is good at intercepting and nicking the ball he's not a hard physical player.

 

I'm not excusing Tom Lees performance on Saturday because it was poor but he has been a good defender. Him and Loovens were excellent. He does seem to need an organiser next to him and I think Westwood helps in that respect but Loovens and Hector going are the big misses..


Out of interest, when was the last time Iorfa played 3 or more consecutive games at CH with Börner?

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On 02/03/2020 at 19:28, McRightSide said:


Out of interest, when was the last time Iorfa played 3 or more consecutive games at CH with Börner?

Blackburn H

Wigan A

Millwall H 

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