Guest LondonOwl313 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 39 minutes ago, DJMortimer said: In Westwood's last four games our record was W0 D2 L2. Then he was replaced and that changed to W4 D2 L0. The idea that our only issue is the goalkeeper is a shameless exercise in scapegoating. The only stats that matter is that when Westwood and Hutchinson play we win more often than not, and when they’re replaced by lesser players we lose more often than not. Are we too reliant on these older, injury prone players? Yes definitely. But can we pretend that we can just get away with not replacing them? No definitely not. Its clearly down to the organisational side of things. We look all over the place whereas when those vocal and experienced players play we generally have more shape and make less defensive mistakes keeping clean sheets much more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
full fathom five Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 5 minutes ago, richowl said: And Westwood is? No but he makes our present a damn sight better than it currently is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, Theboylangers said: But the point is the number of goals conceded whilst Dawson has been established as number 1. Whilst I agree that the rest of the team is responsible for any goals conceded, my worry is the the fact that history seems to be repeating itself in that when Dawson is in the net, the amount of goals we let in seems to increase. Before the current slump that began on Boxing Day, Dawson had conceded 7 goals in his 11 appearances this season. That is outstanding, but just as is the case now that the numbers are very much worse, there's a lot more to it than just how well (or not) the goalkeeper himself is playing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j17tjp Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 if Derby can bang 3 in by half time, imagine how many Man City are going to smash past him. Liverpool have won the league so I imagine MC will go all out to get this cup as consolation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richowl Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, full fathom five said: No but he makes our present a damn sight better than it currently is Good keeper. just issues off the pitch (which is obvious) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowl Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 I'm not entirely convinced recalling Westwood would be the answer. But excluding him (and Hutchinson) certainly isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said: The only stats that matter is that when Westwood and Hutchinson play we win more often than not, and when they’re replaced by lesser players we lose more often than not. Interestingly, in the games they've started together this season, our record is W4 D2 L6. Don't want to read too much into that, but it does not conform with the accepted wisdom of what has happened recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowbelly Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 I think finding a replacement for Hutchinson will help the situation. Dawson’s behind a defence and a team bereft of confidence and organisation. We lack Hutch’s bite in midfield & look soft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzOwl Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 39 minutes ago, bronxowl said: He’s not the only issue, but having Westwood in goal gives the whole team confidence. Hes not the future Let’s just get the dead wood out first, the goal keeping problem will go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LondonOwl313 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, DJMortimer said: Before the current slump that began on Boxing Day, Dawson had conceded 7 goals in his 11 appearances this season. That is outstanding, but just as is the case now that the numbers are very much worse, there's a lot more to it than just how well (or not) the goalkeeper himself is playing. You’re cherry picking statistics here, picking Dawson’s best run in the team and comparing it to Westwood’s worst run in the team in the 6 years he’s been here. Compare all 170+ Westwood games vs all 50+ Dawson games and the difference is huge We won’t know unless Monk gets the sack, but I suspect he’s going to go here as we need someone else in to get the new manager bounce as with a 12 point deduction we’re now 3 points from safety. A new manager will put our best players straight in and I think result will immediately improve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, j17tjp said: if Derby can bang 3 in by half time, imagine how many Man City are going to smash past him. Is he playing them on his own then? This, albeit probably subconsciously, betrays the process of how some supporters seem to be preparing the stake for a burning party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kagoshimaowl Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 38 minutes ago, McRightSide said: Should have saved the 2nd. Better chocolate fingers than Cadbury. Once again 75% of shots on target are goals If Westwood isn’t in the picture then Wildsmith should get an opportunity. Dawson’s form and stats are unacceptably bad He always has chocolate hands. A truly awful keeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowl Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 38 minutes ago, McRightSide said: Should have saved the 2nd. Better chocolate fingers than Cadbury. Once again 75% of shots on target are goals If Westwood isn’t in the picture then Wildsmith should get an opportunity. Dawson’s form and stats are unacceptably bad 50/50 on the second. I can see why he could have done better but a lot of keepers would have let it in. Ist, no chance. 3rd, he was left exposed and it wasn't his fault. I agree it would be better if he organised the defence more but that should be the captains job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
full fathom five Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, richowl said: Good keeper. just issues off the pitch (which is obvious) Yep, but i prefer someone who's capable ON the pitch, Dawson and Pelupessy aren't no matter how you dress it up. Though in putting things in perspective Dawson was the least if our problems today. That's not to say that Dawson isn't an issue. Edited February 29, 2020 by full fathom five Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asteener1867 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) Bloody hell...If you look at Dawson for that sheetieshow today...You must be f.ookin' crosseyed..He had Harris & Lees up against him as well as their bloody forwards... Edited February 29, 2020 by asteener1867 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 1 minute ago, LondonOwl313 said: You’re cherry picking statistics here, picking Dawson’s best run in the team and comparing it to Westwood’s worst run in the team in the 6 years he’s been here. Compare all 170+ Westwood games vs all 50+ Dawson games and the difference is huge That accusation is often the desperate act of someone who is getting lost in the realisation that the truth is a lot more complicated than the basic picture they are trying to paint. If there was really such a vast difference between the two then there would be little chance to show anything contrary in the statistics. You reckon there wasn't a big difference in the talent in front of the goalkeeper, team confidence and balance of territory three years ago compared to now or the injury devastation when Luhukay was manager? Or does the goalkeeper straightforwardly dictate the goals conceded all by himself? Our slump is down to a lot of factors, some of which will be kept within the dressing room. Dawson may well be one of them, but there are very many more and he is taking way more of his share of the blame than merited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theowlsman Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 If only Dawson could garner the same level of support from his defence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRightSide Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 26 minutes ago, DJMortimer said: Of course it is. But there's more to it than the bloke between the posts. Before Dawson came in apparently for keeps, Westwood had conceded 2 in each of the previous three games. The collapse in form of the central defenders, the modest talent at full back and our lack of a commanding presence in midfield are also big factors. Winning games is also a problem when you can't score, and we weren't all that prolific before Fletcher's injury. Anyone who judges any player just on the numbers is a lost cause. Until recently, Dawson's statistics were slightly better than Westwood's. Have either of them transformed into different players recently? I also suspect some of the factors are unknown outside of the dressing room. Don’t even try and stack Westwood’s Goals concedes per game v Dawson’s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 @sam1 has proper got his crybaby pants filling up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Cosby Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Fu*k me, when did we become ''Dawson supporters''!? I support Sheffield Wednesday and whoever wears the shirt... This personality worship that goes on with the likes of Westwood and Hutchinson is the sole reason they both think they can walk around like Billybigbollocks. I despair sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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