Guest Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 6 minutes ago, Inspector Lestrade said: If Westwood had played in the games instead of Dawson then going from the errors he made earlier in the season its plausible to assume he would have made errors at the same rate as before and we would be in more or less the same position. I don't think Dawsons form has dropped significantly. Westwood and Dawson are not the urgent problem. Why is that plausible? Form is temporary. Westwood has had bad spells before and come through them. Under Bruce last season he was on fine form and has kept clean sheets the season. He also has a knack of not conceding 3 goals or more very often. The evidence is clear to see that Dawson's form has dipped, he has made costly mistakes that simply weren't happening pre-Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRightSide Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Inspector Lestrade said: I didn't say that. Strawman argument Ok fine. Silly to assume he’d make errors at the same rate, causing us to concede goals (due to being a keeper) better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HullOwlPhil Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, McRightSide said: We have a new attendee for Dawson camp 1. Please sign in at the front desk. Great response. Take off those rose tinted glasses. Or don't, I really couldn't give a shíte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Lestrade Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Just now, McRightSide said: Ok fine. Silly to assume he’d make errors at the same rate, causing us to concede goals (due to being a keeper) better? OK let's assume he makes more mistakes, then we would be worse off. Are you arguing that he would make less? If so what are you basing that on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 5 minutes ago, SUPER OWLS O.K. said: Some of our supporters really need to take their rose tinted glasses off when it comes to Westwood. Look at previous seasons when we were in poor form and the amount of goals he used to concede, the mistakes he made and the kicks he used to shank all over the place. And people really think he's the answer to our problems right now? Not to mention the fact that he's the only keeper in our history to concede 4 goals at home to you know who. But yeah he shouts and lot and organises the defense better and yak yak yak. See below. You must be satisfied with the fact that we have conceded 24 goals in our last 13 league games, a few of which come down to keeper errors. The lack of leadership and belief on the pitch throughout the team is evident. We could do with some confident, experienced, outspoken players because match after match fans give reference to the fact it is sorely lacking. 9 minutes ago, McRightSide said: 172 goals in 179 games v 86 goals in 66 games Not very smart to assume that Westwood would continue to concede at the same rate as Dawson. I mean, that’s just silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HullOwlPhil Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: See below. You must be satisfied with the fact that we have conceded 24 goals in our last 13 league games, a few of which come down to keeper errors. The lack of leadership and belief on the pitch throughout the team is evident. We could do with some confident, experienced, outspoken players because match after match fans give reference to the fact it is sorely lacking. We are in poor form. Look at previous seasons when we were in poor form and the goals that we conceded with Westwood in goal. It's not hard. Of course I'm not satisfied with all of the goals we're conceding but simply blaming the keeper is idiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Just now, SUPER OWLS O.K. said: We are in poor form. Look at previous seasons when we were in poor form and the goals that we conceded with Westwood in goal. It's not hard. Of course I'm not satisfied with all of the goals we're conceding but simply blaming the keeper is idiotic. If you read the thread you will know that few if any are solely blaming the keeper, just stating that he is out of form and is contributing to our poor defensive displays and results. Others have been dropped for less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Lestrade Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: Why is that plausible? Form is temporary. Westwood has had bad spells before and come through them. Under Bruce last season he was on fine form and has kept clean sheets the season. He also has a knack of not conceding 3 goals or more very often. The evidence is clear to see that Dawson's form has dipped, he has made costly mistakes that simply weren't happening pre-Christmas. We are going round in circles, I have no problem with Westwood been in net but he was making errors when the defence was playing well. Now the defence is playing poorly if he came back and made errors at the same rate as before (which is reasonable to assume with the defence playing so poor) then we would be no better off. I really don't mind which ones plays. Anyway off to bed goodnight thanks for your time its been a good debate. Edited March 1, 2020 by Inspector Lestrade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 Just now, Inspector Lestrade said: We are going round in circles, I have no problem with Westwood been in net but he was making errors when the defence was playing well. Now the defence is playing poorly if he came back and made errors at the same rate as before (which is reasonable to assume with the defence playing so poor) then we would be no better off. I really don't mind which ones plays. Last time he was dropped for a length of time he came back when the team was in very poor form - he came back and had an immediate positive impact so no reason to suggest he will come back and continue to make errors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: Last time he was dropped for a length of time he came back when the team was in very poor form - he came back and had an immediate positive impact so no reason to suggest he will come back and continue to make errors. He wasn’t the only player to return though was he....so to imply he was the reason to the upturn in form is a bit false Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Ian said: He wasn’t the only player to return though was he....so to imply he was the reason to the upturn in form is a bit false Not the full reason no, a contributing factor, just as Dawson is a contributing factor in terms of our current form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat blondeau Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 4 hours ago, McRightSide said: By the way...the really shocking fact is that Cameron Dawson has already conceded 50% of the total number of goals that Westwood has conceded in his entire career with us. 86 goals in 66 games v 172 goals in 179 games Stats can sometimes be misleading but in this case I don’t think they are. Westwood is one of the best keepers in Wednesday’s history and Dawson isn’t a very good goalkeeper. I hope he goes on to prove me wrong but I’ll be surprised if Dawson plays for another club in the top two divisions of English football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, pat blondeau said: Stats can sometimes be misleading but in this case I don’t think they are. Westwood is one of the best keepers in Wednesday’s history and Dawson isn’t a very good goalkeeper. I hope he goes on to prove me wrong but I’ll be surprised if Dawson plays for another club in the top two divisions of English football So he could go on to play 500 games for us, win the premier league title, the World Cup with England but by your barometer that would mean he’s not very good? Edited March 1, 2020 by Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LondonOwl313 Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, Ian said: So he could go on to play 500 games for us, win the premier league title, the World Cup with England but by your barometer that would mean he’s not very good? He ain’t going to though is he.. he’s shocking. We will never get promoted with him in goal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 Just now, LondonOwl313 said: He ain’t going to though is he.. he’s shocking. We will never get promoted with him in goal If you say so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat blondeau Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ian said: So he could go on to play 500 games for us, win the premier league title, the World Cup with England but by your barometer that would mean he’s not very good? If Dawson is in goal and we get promoted I will say he is a premier league quality keeper. Based on the results we’ve had, the mistakes he’s made and the goals we’ve conceded he’s a long way short of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upperwinngardensowl Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 He is simply not saving shots. That is all oh, and can’t kick a moving ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LondonOwl313 Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 9 minutes ago, Ian said: If you say so Maybe I was being harsh.. we might get promoted from league 1 with him in goal at this rate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingsidney Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 7 hours ago, Tudders said: You judge a keeper by their ability, not by how many they concede. Conceding goals isn’t just down to the keeper. Ok he can’t kick and couldn’t catch a cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HullOwlPhil Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 12 minutes ago, kingsidney said: Ok he can’t kick and couldn’t catch a cold. You're just making things up now. He fluffed one kick today, the rest of his kicking was fine. And I'll say it again, Westwood's kicking is shocking but he seems to get a free pass on that for some reason. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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