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sheriwozgod

Penney scores in Hamburg Derby

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6 minutes ago, cowl said:

 

No, they're different players.

 

Amongst a number of our fans there seems to be more regard for Penney than for van Aken, based, presumably on what they've seen of both players - since, after all, we have all seen both players play a number of first team games.

 

Similarly, there was more regard for Thorniley than for Baker, and the regret some had for Thorniley leaving in January seemed to be more than that for Baker leaving.

 

I'm not really sure what point you're driving at here.


I think the fact JVA cost a reported 4 million makes it even more annoying he has looked so poor for us. 

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2 minutes ago, WalthamOwl said:


I think the fact JVA cost a reported 4 million makes it even more annoying he has looked so poor for us. 

For the millionth and seventy-second time, he did not cost 4 million. This is an Owlstalk myth. He cost a couple of million and has been a very poor transfer, but he cost nowhere near 4 million anythings. 

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19 minutes ago, StudentOwl said:

For the millionth and seventy-second time, he did not cost 4 million. This is an Owlstalk myth. He cost a couple of million and has been a very poor transfer, but he cost nowhere near 4 million anythings. 


was 4 million not reported in the press also? Do agree it has been very poor business though!

Edited by WalthamOwl

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1 hour ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Interesting Joost Van Aken has also scored 1 goal in the German 2nd division this season and is playing regularly for a club that are doing better than St Pauli. Should we also be doing everything we can to keep hold of such a talent based on this?

 

I guess you are refering to my post in another thread.

 

If we were looking to let Penney leave in the summer then we did decent and logical thing sending him out on loan to get bit of experience and put himself into "shop window".

 

But if we planed to offer him new deal and keep him here, then it is travesty to send him out before agreeing new long term deal first. This way we lost all leverage and it is not supposed to happen.

 

Regarding JVK - I'm really not sure who is doing scouting and signing this players. I don't think he is a bad player at all, but he is not suited for Championship football and it was obvious from early in his Wednesday career.

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The bottom of the 2. Bundesliga ain’t a great standard.

 

1 step off regional football. 

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14 minutes ago, malek said:

 

I guess you are refering to my post in another thread.

 

If we were looking to let Penney leave in the summer then we did decent and logical thing sending him out on loan to get bit of experience and put himself into "shop window".

 

But if we planed to offer him new deal and keep him here, then it is travesty to send him out before agreeing new long term deal first. This way we lost all leverage and it is not supposed to happen.

 

Regarding JVK - I'm really not sure who is doing scouting and signing this players. I don't think he is a bad player at all, but he is not suited for Championship football and it was obvious from early in his Wednesday career.

 

Not just your post but yes yours was one I was referencing. 

What you say about having him signed up to a new deal is logical I must admit, I would have thought it would be something we would have sorted some time before now if the intention was to keep hold of him?

I don't think it will be incredibly costly though, I just don't think he is good enough to play above mid-table Championship. No disgrace in that and he could certainly make a good career for himself but I don't think he will be a great loss to us.

 

Van Aken did look like a fish out of water but seems to have found some form this season at a similar if slightly lower level in a league where some of the football played is not completely alien to that of the Championship. I doubt he will make it long-term here either but you never know. Michael Morrison never looked like a footballer when he played for us in the 3rd division but has made a decent career for himself at this level. 

 

Edited by hirstyboywonder

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18 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

The point I am making is that both have been little better than average at best for us. Van Aken has been worse overall I agree but there has been nothing to suggest that Penney is some great prospect worth holding onto as some make out. He isn't a kid anymore in terms of when footballers develop into 1st team players these days.

 

Both lost their way at Hillsborough and went out to find some form and 1st team football. St Pauli were expected to do better than Van Aken's club but are behind them in the table and Van Aken is laying regularly. 

Penney seems to be afforded more time to come good and hope based on the fact he comes from the academy rather than what both are currently producing. You'd be hard pushed to find anything positive about Van Aken on here whereas some say it is disgraceful that Penney isn't tied down for years to come. 

 

 

I agree that those that come up from the academy are given more leeway in general, but I think there's also more here with Penney since he initially came in and did well only to then find himself in different positions, fade somewhat, and then get injured. Which was the real Matt Penney - the player after a couple of games, or the player we saw just before Luhukay's dismissal? I suppose there are enough mitigating circumstances to have expectations that it was the player we initially saw. At least, anyway, if a player is to be deemed not good enough after early promise, there's a feeling that there ought at least be a second 'audition'. But our fans are yet to see the second audition, so I suppose until then it seems difficult to say one way or another.

 

As for Van Aken, in all fairness to him he has been extremely unlucky with injuries. He's also been severely blighted by his performance when we lost at home to United in so far as our fans' esteem of him is concerned. Played the next game after CC was sacked only to get injured and be out for the season. What then should have been a fresh start for him with the opener to the 18/19 season resulted in him being extremely shaky and hauled off after an hour. His next appearance saw him subbed again but this time for injury and we've not seen him since but for twice being on the bench. I suppose that league game against Wigan was Van Aken's second chance, and for most, if it was an audition he'll have failed.

 

Anyway, I assume we'll be trying to sell Van Aken in the summer, unless Monk (or whoever's managing) sees something in him in training and decides he's worth another crack at it.

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2 minutes ago, cowl said:

 

I agree that those that come up from the academy are given more leeway in general, but I think there's also more here with Penney since he initially came in and did well only to then find himself in different positions, fade somewhat, and then get injured. Which was the real Matt Penney - the player after a couple of games, or the player we saw just before Luhukay's dismissal? I suppose there are enough mitigating circumstances to have expectations that it was the player we initially saw. At least, anyway, if a player is to be deemed not good enough after early promise, there's a feeling that there ought at least be a second 'audition'. But our fans are yet to see the second audition, so I suppose until then it seems difficult to say one way or another.

 

As for Van Aken, in all fairness to him he has been extremely unlucky with injuries. He's also been severely blighted by his performance when we lost at home to United in so far as our fans' esteem of him is concerned. Played the next game after CC was sacked only to get injured and be out for the season. What then should have been a fresh start for him with the opener to the 18/19 season resulted in him being extremely shaky and hauled off after an hour. His next appearance saw him subbed again but this time for injury and we've not seen him since but for twice being on the bench. I suppose that league game against Wigan was Van Aken's second chance, and for most, if it was an audition he'll have failed.

 

Anyway, I assume we'll be trying to sell Van Aken in the summer, unless Monk (or whoever's managing) sees something in him in training and decides he's worth another crack at it.

 

Fair enough, I can understand a lot of where you are coming from with that but think one or two might have over expectations of Penney. I can see the merit in giving him another go from what you have said though, no harm in that. 

True on Van Aken as well, it is a long way back from having a nightmare which contributed to us losing the first derby in a few years in humiliating fashion. I think counting the Wigan game as a 2nd chance is harsh though, I mean Jos played Hutchinson as a number 10 in that game! 

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1 minute ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Fair enough, I can understand a lot of where you are coming from with that but think one or two might have over expectations of Penney. I can see the merit in giving him another go from what you have said though, no harm in that. 

True on Van Aken as well, it is a long way back from having a nightmare which contributed to us losing the first derby in a few years in humiliating fashion. I think counting the Wigan game as a 2nd chance is harsh though, I mean Jos played Hutchinson as a number 10 in that game! 


Can’t see either of them making it here tbh.

 

Not unless we want to give up all hope of competing at this level at least

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13 hours ago, hirstyboywonder said:

Interesting Joost Van Aken has also scored 1 goal in the German 2nd division this season and is playing regularly for a club that are doing better than St Pauli. Should we also be doing everything we can to keep hold of such a talent based on this?

 

I think he's got the potential, attributes and age all on his side but it's just a case of whether he wants it or not. 

 

Also think Penney's long gone, after what he's experienced. 

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If you had a choice between Pelupessy or Penney for the starting line up last Saturday who would you have picked?

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18 hours ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

None of them are setting the world alight. Penney scores his first goal of a season long loan in the German 2nd division in February and all of a sudden he is someone we need to do everything to keep hold of. 

 

Hirst left to rule himself out of first team football at a decent level for a couple of years at least, Clare has been getting dogs abuse from the Hearts fan on here whose team are bottom of the SPL and Wildsmith can't get a look in for us when one keeper is frozen out and the other is averaging conceding nearly 2 goals per game in the league for the past two months. 

 

No...not all of a sudden, i think he is a decent prospect who was selected too regularly and messed about with positionally by Jos when he first came into the side but is definitely worth keeping hold of , especially considering the summer cull that is likely to happen.

 

As for Hirst and Clare , they were wanted by premier league teams north and south of the border yet we got next to nothing for them which was my original point about us not f***ing up contract wise.

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I can tell you now that Hamburgs stadium is the best ive been to and ive been to a few in my time, Barca included. If we want to see what can be achieved stadium wise i would look no further. 

 

It is unreal.

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44 minutes ago, sheriwozgod said:

If you had a choice between Pelupessy or Penney for the starting line up last Saturday who would you have picked?

Well I wouldnt want penney as the defensive midfielder so joey .

 

14 hours ago, McRightSide said:

The bottom of the 2. Bundesliga ain’t a great standard.

 

1 step off regional football. 

Bundesliga 3 is the next level ....

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On 23/02/2020 at 00:16, bobness said:

I'm a bit confused. Didn't I read on here that he's having a mare and won't be played again?

 

it's almost like people post a load of shiite, but that can't be the case. if anyone can clear it up for me. cheers. 

It is Owlstalk! It’s a place for opinions not reality 

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Young lad living in a great German City, playing in front of 60,000 and scoring in the local derby.

 

Bet he can't wait to get back to Hillsborough lol 

  • Haha 1

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18 hours ago, McRightSide said:

The bottom of the 2. Bundesliga ain’t a great standard.


1 step off regional football. 

3 hours ago, owls maniac said:

Young lad living in a great German City, playing in front of 60,000 and scoring in the local derby.

 

Bet he can't wait to get back to Hillsborough lol 

Exactly, especially with some of the fans on here 

 

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4 hours ago, torryowl said:

Well I wouldnt want penney as the defensive midfielder so joey .

 

Bundesliga 3 is the next level ....

Well that's a shock

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19 hours ago, malek said:

 

I guess you are refering to my post in another thread.

 

If we were looking to let Penney leave in the summer then we did decent and logical thing sending him out on loan to get bit of experience and put himself into "shop window".

 

But if we planed to offer him new deal and keep him here, then it is travesty to send him out before agreeing new long term deal first. This way we lost all leverage and it is not supposed to happen.

 

Regarding JVK - I'm really not sure who is doing scouting and signing this players. I don't think he is a bad player at all, but he is not suited for Championship football and it was obvious from early in his Wednesday career.


In the recent thread that was a translation of a match report in German there was mention of an option to buy for 350k euros from memory.

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10 hours ago, torryowl said:

Well I wouldnt want penney as the defensive midfielder so joey .

 

Bundesliga 3 is the next level ....


oh yeah, good point...forgot they stuck that in there.

 

either way, point stands.

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