Our best team

[83owl]

11 hours ago, SiJ said:

Westwood:

Reading 

West Brom 

Swansea x 2 

 

Dawson: 

QPR 

Barnsley 

Wigan? 

Reading? 

 

Those are the mistakes off the top of my head.

 

 

 

KW away at Millwall and home to Fulham, both mistakes costing us points.

[Guest]

Dawsons positioning at Cardiff led to their last minute goal

[McRightSide]

This is all pretty much immaterial since Monk won’t play Westwood

[sonofbert2]

The current situation is down to Carlos’ toxic legacy as a result of the way he managed the squad, which in his defence almost came off.  A strange recruitment strategy that didn’t really fit with that philosophy and finally Bruce fuckingoff when he did.

 

It is very difficult to take “good conditions” away from employees that are used to them unless they fear for their job.

[SiJ]

2 hours ago, Grandad said:

 

 

Westwoods 'mistake' at WBA was brought on by awful defending by Palmer who left him totally exposed and drew the penalty (if thats what youre classing as a mistake?)

He was still rash coming out like he did.

 

It is possible for two players to make a mistake.

[SiJ]

23 minutes ago, Grandad said:

Dawsons positioning at Cardiff led to their last minute goal

The way he put Aiden Flint in front of him was pretty amateurish.

[SiJ]

But yes, I agree that an in form Westwood is a superior GK to Dawson. 

[Pale Rider]

9 hours ago, Ante's Bubbly said:

Yep, obviously no agenda from you now boy is there! Read what Westwood says and tell me he's up for the job and try being up with the times. Fox is gunning for player of the year, which is not gunna be hard this season now is it. Yeeeharrrr!

Just being a realist. IMO we can’t build a promotion team around the likes of Dawson and Fox.

[torryowl]

6 minutes ago, Pale Rider said:

Just being a realist. IMO we can’t build a promotion team around the likes of Dawson and Fox.

It's quite feasible that if we ever do get promoted that none of the present squad will be here when we do ....but you have to build a squad brick by brick and  as of now fox and dawson are 2 of our players that can play a part in the rebuilding .something I cant say about many others we have .

[pazowl55]

1 hour ago, Holmowl said:

I would revert to the team that slaughtered Forest. 
 

Dawson

Palmer Iorfa Lees Fox

Reach Bannan Luongo Harris

Rhodes Fletcher

 

Rhodes - Fletcher partnership scored 4 in 90 minutes then sadly injury shut it down. It would be foolish not to find out if this was a freak or a true strike partnership.

 

Lees v Borner - I’ve never seen in Borner what so many of you see in him. Even when we were getting results I thought he lacked mobility, reaction time and positional nous. 
 

I would love to see Reach and Harris alternating wings mid-game. I would love to see Murphy and Ff push hard for their place, meaning that we have 4 quality and very different wingers chomping at the bit to play.

 

This team did work. I’d like to see it given 3 or 4 games.

Would you swap Wickham for Rhodes.

I would and keep the rest. Reach offers alot more than most think to our midfield as does Fox at the back. Need both theses back. 

[Holmowl]

10 minutes ago, pazowl55 said:

Would you swap Wickham for Rhodes.

I would and keep the rest. Reach offers alot more than most think to our midfield as does Fox at the back. Need both theses back. 

No. Not until we see if Fletcher-Rhodes was a one-off or a great pairing.

[Dutch McLovin]

1 hour ago, pazowl55 said:

Would you swap Wickham for Rhodes.

I would and keep the rest. Reach offers alot more than most think to our midfield as does Fox at the back. Need both theses back. 

Wickham would be in for Rhodes and Hutchinson for Bannan

[Ante's Bubbly]

8 hours ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Never said Iorfa was in fine form. If you think Dawson is playing well we'll just have to disagree on that score.

I don't think Dawson is playing well and I don't think Westwood was playing well either. The big difference is that Westwood was playing badly when the team was playing better. Whereas, Dawson is playing badly when the whole team is playing badly. As for Iorfa being Dawsons saviour, I am afraid the opposite is true. In fact, if Iorfa and the other players in front of the goalkeeper were all playing better THE TEAM not just the goalkeeper, would have conceded less goals. 

We are all very happy to acknowledge that strikers only play well and score goals when their confidence is high, but are somehow a lot less understanding for the goalkeeper, when the whole of his defence has very little confidence and panics, or switches off, everytime the ball comes anywhere near our area. How does that affect the goalkeeper? The defence has been chopped and changed all over the place, with four or five (?) different players used at right back and none of them looking convincing apart from an average to good game there, so that alone has been one big problem for our defence, but it has been made worse by Lees getting injured and then having an ilness, Borner looking like he is wearing lead boots and being caught out more often (and also being out injured), then the one player who has looked solid at the back, Fox, being out injured has also added to the instability.

 

If Monk thought the goalkeeper was the source of the problem, don't you think he would have played Wildsmith, or Jones by now though? Maybe that is his next step?

[Ante's Bubbly]

5 hours ago, Pale Rider said:

Just being a realist. IMO we can’t build a promotion team around the likes of Dawson and Fox.

 

So now you are using a different thread and a different argument to statesomething that you know pretty much all of us wil agree with! 

 

You were talking about people having pro Dawson agendas, then about people being pro Fox, just becsuse he's won player of the month for us a few times. I don't think any Wednesday fans would argue that many of our players would be high up on most teams wishlists, if they are looking for promotion, never mind building a team around them.

 

The thing is though, at the moment Dawson is a young goalkeeper that is still learning his trade and Westwood is an older goalkeeper who, by his own admission, has been having a rough time. Our manager has chosen Dawson, to solve that problem and just because a set of fans like us on here, do not understand all the facts, or choose to ignore what the people who do know all the facts are telling us, it does not give us the right to keep spinning our own little agendas around what is happening. Westwood is not going to be playing until he is ready to play and Monk decides he is ready to play in the first team. As long as Dawson can carry on doing a good job and doesn't let the social media hate campaigners get to him too, then he will continue to play and if that is the state of affairs at the moment and we have been told nothing different, by any of the parties how can we object? There may be case for suggesting that Wildsmith or Jones should be given a go, but everbody at he back have been making mistskes, everbody in the middle have been making mistakes and the front line has been dreadfull apart from Fletcher. He is another player I wouldn't build a promotion expectant team around, but he is still one of our players that can make a big difference, especially when the rest of the team are doing their part and making it impossible for Monk not to pick them, which includes Dawson and Fox, Hutchinson, Bannan, Reach, Westwood, Iorfa, Palmer, Lees and all the rest of the squad.

[Ante's Bubbly]

16 hours ago, LondonOwl313 said:

It feels like we’re all broadly in two camps.. either you want the play off players in the team because they have put in decent performances in the past or you blame those players for not getting us over the line, costing us too much money and generally causing off the field issues.

 

As someone in the first camp, I don’t actually care too much about any of them. But my issue is, the so called cheaper players aren’t up to the job of winning a promotion. Dawson, Palmer, Fox, Pelupessy, Nuhui, Rhodes, Winnall, Odubajo, Kieran Lee (now), Lees (now), Luongo, Murphy, Harris.. all of these players just aren’t good enough for a promotion push. Some of them are really solid pros, they work hard, are reliable and you need some as squad fillers. But if you have more than 2-3 in your side then you aren’t going to go up IMHO. Ideally we’d bring in a whole new side like 2015 but think we’re pretty much stuck tbh

No mate, I don't fit into either of your camps. My team choice is based on how well our individual players are playing now and it includes seversl players from the play off team, not because they were in the play offs, but because I think they are the best we have for the job now. The play off sides were largely made up of players signed before DC came, along with a crop of good players bought by our recruitment committee, but we have not added enough real quality players since then like Reach and a similar quality defensive midfielder, another creative midfielder, promotion quality fullbacks, a top goalscorer and centre halves.

 

You class Rhodes as one of our cheaper players and he's our most expensive player transfer wise, possibly wage wise and possibly our biggest mistake ever. Do you vount all the plsyers who uave had relative success with us as expensive players. Because some have been relatively huge players for us in their time here and could have suceeded in getting us up with better players in the key areas mentioned, but did not cost us a penny in transfre fees. Bannan, Westwood, Hutchinson and several others came to us on free contracts. I listed them on another forum.

 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

58 minutes ago, Ante's Bubbly said:

No mate, I don't fit into either of your camps. My team choice is based on how well our individual players are playing now and it includes seversl players from the play off team, not because they were in the play offs, but because I think they are the best we have for the job now. The play off sides were largely made up of players signed before DC came, along with a crop of good players bought by our recruitment committee, but we have not added enough real quality players since then like Reach and a similar quality defensive midfielder, another creative midfielder, promotion quality fullbacks, a top goalscorer and centre halves.

 

You class Rhodes as one of our cheaper players and he's our most expensive player transfer wise, possibly wage wise and possibly our biggest mistake ever. Do you vount all the plsyers who uave had relative success with us as expensive players. Because some have been relatively huge players for us in their time here and could have suceeded in getting us up with better players in the key areas mentioned, but did not cost us a penny in transfre fees. Bannan, Westwood, Hutchinson and several others came to us on free contracts. I listed them on another forum.

 

I agree recruitment has been shocking since Wembley starting with spending £5m+ on two 30+ centre mids on big wages who then barely played. Tbh we've only really signed Fletcher since then who has been top quality... Reach has been decent but for a big fee, some of the last year's signings are ok in Iorfa, Borner, Luongo and Harris but they're more squad fillers than players that would walk into the 2016 side. Rhodes looked ok on paper but in hindsight was poor and also shouldn't have happened for financial reasons.

 

The names I listed were players I don't think are good enough to be regular starters in a promotion winning team rather than being based on their cost. A lot of them are on the cheaper end though.

 

FWIW, the ones I'd keep would be as follows:

 

First 11, could play most weeks in a top 6 side:

 

Westwood

Iorfa

Hutchinson

Bannan

Forestieri

Fletcher

 

Squad players, can do a job when called upon but don't want to build a team around them:

 

Dawson

Palmer

Fox

Lees

Borner

Harris

Reach

Luongo

 

The rest can go for me... if we're serious about promotion I think we need about 10 players. Half for the first 11 and the other half squad fillers

[Pale Rider]

2 hours ago, Ante's Bubbly said:

 

So now you are using a different thread and a different argument to statesomething that you know pretty much all of us wil agree with! 

 

You were talking about people having pro Dawson agendas, then about people being pro Fox, just becsuse he's won player of the month for us a few times. I don't think any Wednesday fans would argue that many of our players would be high up on most teams wishlists, if they are looking for promotion, never mind building a team around them.

 

The thing is though, at the moment Dawson is a young goalkeeper that is still learning his trade and Westwood is an older goalkeeper who, by his own admission, has been having a rough time. Our manager has chosen Dawson, to solve that problem and just because a set of fans like us on here, do not understand all the facts, or choose to ignore what the people who do know all the facts are telling us, it does not give us the right to keep spinning our own little agendas around what is happening. Westwood is not going to be playing until he is ready to play and Monk decides he is ready to play in the first team. As long as Dawson can carry on doing a good job and doesn't let the social media hate campaigners get to him too, then he will continue to play and if that is the state of affairs at the moment and we have been told nothing different, by any of the parties how can we object? There may be case for suggesting that Wildsmith or Jones should be given a go, but everbody at he back have been making mistskes, everbody in the middle have been making mistakes and the front line has been dreadfull apart from Fletcher. He is another player I wouldn't build a promotion expectant team around, but he is still one of our players that can make a big difference, especially when the rest of the team are doing their part and making it impossible for Monk not to pick them, which includes Dawson and Fox, Hutchinson, Bannan, Reach, Westwood, Iorfa, Palmer, Lees and all the rest of the squad.

We are staring down the barrel at oblivion. We shouldn’t be giving anybody “a go” or giving anybody a chance. We should be playing our best players, because in the long run that is the best way to win points. 

[BarnsleyOwl96]

Best team I would go should everyone be fit 

 

Westwood

 

Palmer

Iorfa

Borner

Fox

 

Harris

Bannan

Luongo

Reach

 

Fletcher 

Fernando

 

that is the best 11 CURRENTLY in terms of performing well or have potential to perform well. Players in best positions (Reach left mid ,) appreciate long term this isn’t ideal 

[Sova]

Despite our recent problems, if you look at our goals for and against it looks like scoring is more of a problem for us than defending. 12 teams have scored more than us, but only 7 have conceded fewer, and 6 out of those 7 currently occupy the play-off spots. And our defensive record would be even better had we not conceded 6 when down to 10 men across the games against Blackburn and Reading recently. Yes, we've conceded some late goals. But scoring has been more of an issue.

[Ante's Bubbly]

3 hours ago, Pale Rider said:

We are staring down the barrel at oblivion. We shouldn’t be giving anybody “a go” or giving anybody a chance. We should be playing our best players, because in the long run that is the best way to win points. 

 

And you think Westwood is still our best goalie even after his latest clear the air statement, while the manager who also know's he's not and I, who thinks he's not, disagree. Get over the fact that there is no Dawson agenda, or Fox agenda and that despite playing our best available players it is going to get worse before it gets better. This team needs rebuilding.