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13 hours ago, S36 OWL said:

 

You don't need to be  a Premier league manager to see a disruptive influence in the dressing room. This sort of thing will happen all through the leagues. 

 

Garry Monk said the other week that he knows what a successful dressing room looks like.

 

He might know it, but producing it seems to have been beyond him for what is now nearly a quarter of a season, much of which has come against sides in dire form themselves. 

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13 hours ago, S36 OWL said:

 

From Monks quotes about " doing whats best for the squad " , that seems to confirm whats gone off. 

 

I'd have hoped 'doing what is best for the squad' would have resulted in an upturn to performances, results and morale......

 

Let me know when this becomes visible.

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8 hours ago, Ronnie Starling said:

Westwoods kicking isn't that great for a Championship keeper. The experienced Championship performers haven't exactly pulled up any trees this season have they? Look at how they let Bullen down.

 

Don't think anyone would have Bullen down as a tactical genius. However, we had 9 points from 6 games under him this season - 1.5 points per game. We have picked up 35 from 27 under Monk - just under 1.3 points per game.......... 

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36 minutes ago, McRightSide said:


Couple of ‘could do betters’ against Blackburn too

 

Also rescued by Iorfa in injury time against Millwall after another dire kick straight to their forward under no real pressure. Plain and simple he is out of form and needs a spell out of the team.

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This is very difficult because how can you pick the best team based on dependability?

 

Very few of the players have been anywhere near consistent, with only Fletcher, Bannan and Tom Lees choosing themselves, when fit, with average performance scores of 7/10 or higher, in terms of their involvement and effectiveness.

 

Westwood's comments and mistakes seem to have been totally ignored in a lot of the 11s chosen so far. So Dawson, as the only other known goalkeeper would get the nod.

 

Reach has been our most consistent goal provider, along with Bannan, so he would be included. 

 

Fox and Murphy have both been getting better and better under Monk. Palmer would be a close second choice left back but no good as right back based on last 4 or 5 seasons.

 

Right backs have all been pretty awful, or decent depending which games you look at, but all three have made mistakes which have led to goals. I would pick Iorfa there, because he would be possibly less exposed than in the middle and has more to offer thsn the other candidates.

 

I would pick Borner ahead of Hutchinson in the middle left, but dont think either player is physically capable for many games. 

 

Centre mid is difficult with our injury prone players but when fully fit Massimo Luongo looked right at home there, got forward well, linked up well, tackled well and broke up play well, so he would be my choice for a good balance.

 

Up front with Fletch would be a tough choice between FF, Adthe and Winnall, but all 3 have given pretty much the same goalwise apart from two have worked harder in every game and one gives other attackers more space, battles with a big heart and has the better overall average game stats, so Nuhiu it is for the last place. Chosen on performance stats and effectivenesd above personsl choice.  

 

We have not seen our three new loan players much and they are not fully match fit so leaving them out, but hopefully they will show a bit more of  what they can do before we send them back. 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Also rescued by Iorfa in injury time against Millwall after another dire kick straight to their forward under no real pressure. Plain and simple he is out of form and needs a spell out of the team.

Iorfa's ridiculous attempt at a backpass was responsble for one recent away goal, his poor marking led to one of the goals on Saturday and his heavy touch and rash attempt for the penalty all down to him. Admittedly Dawson did well to almost save the pen, but was unlucky. 

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1 hour ago, Pale Rider said:

What you do have is a pro- Dawson agenda. Like most of our fan base, you identify with players that have at some time been made scapegoats. Everybody and their grandmothers are wetting the beds because it turns out Morgan Fox is an average Championship player, for no other reason than he had been previously castigated. 

All I know is we accept Dawson for Westwood, we wouldn’t accept Rhodes for Fletch

Yep, obviously no agenda from you now boy is there! Read what Westwood says and tell me he's up for the job and try being up with the times. Fox is gunning for player of the year, which is not gunna be hard this season now is it. Yeeeharrrr!

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Guest LondonOwl313
7 minutes ago, Ante's Bubbly said:

Yep, obviously no agenda from you now boy is there! Read what Westwood says and tell me he's up for the job and try being up with the times. Fox is gunning for player of the year, which is not gunna be hard this season now is it. Yeeeharrrr!

It feels like we’re all broadly in two camps.. either you want the play off players in the team because they have put in decent performances in the past or you blame those players for not getting us over the line, costing us too much money and generally causing off the field issues.

 

As someone in the first camp, I don’t actually care too much about any of them. But my issue is, the so called cheaper players aren’t up to the job of winning a promotion. Dawson, Palmer, Fox, Pelupessy, Nuhui, Rhodes, Winnall, Odubajo, Kieran Lee (now), Lees (now), Luongo, Murphy, Harris.. all of these players just aren’t good enough for a promotion push. Some of them are really solid pros, they work hard, are reliable and you need some as squad fillers. But if you have more than 2-3 in your side then you aren’t going to go up IMHO. Ideally we’d bring in a whole new side like 2015 but think we’re pretty much stuck tbh

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If I was manager lol and I wanted us to stop losing every match and shipping in goals,  I might try something different...

Westwood (GK)

Palmer (RB)

Lees (CB)

Borner (Sweeper)

Iorfa (CB)

Fox (LB)

Lee (CM)

Luongo (CM)

Bannan (CM)

Forestieri (ST)

Wickham (CF) 

 

Bench

Reach

Harris

Hutch

Windass

Nuhiu

Dawson

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Animis said:

In terms of who's is 'best' keeper, it could argued that it's a subjective opinion. I assume there's facts out there, but the main indicator of conceding goals is affected by many variables; not at least the performance of the players in front of the keeper.

 

I did a thread on this a while back, but worth updating now Dawson in particular has a larger sample size this season:

 

League Games Only

Cameron Dawson

Wednesday Career:

50 Starts + 3 sub appearance (4,611 minutes)

72 Goals conceded (a goal every 64 minutes); 12 clean sheets

145 saves made (67% of shots saved)

WhoScored rating = 6.46

Passing Accuracy = 49.9%

 

Cameron Dawson

2019-20 season

19 Starts + 1 sub appearance (1,719 minutes)

23 Goals conceded (a goal every 75 minutes); 6 clean sheets

44 saves made (66% of shots saved)

WhoScored rating = 6.30

Passing Accuracy = 43.3%

 

Keiren Westwood

Wednesday Career:

177 starts (15,645 minutes)

169 Goals conceded (a goal every 93 minutes); 66 clean sheets

457 saves made (73% of shots saved)

WhoScored rating = 6.74

Passing Accuracy = 44.1%

 

Keiren Westwood

2019-20 season

14 Starts (1,250 minutes)

17 Goals conceded (a goal every 74 minutes); 5 clean sheets

51 saves made (75% of shots saved)

WhoScored rating = 6.41

Passing Accuracy = 44.5%

 

Also perhaps worth noting that although Westwood's figures are down this season on his career average, the 20 games he played last season were actually his best ever season in terms of saves made (80% of shots), WS rating (7.04) and mins per gaol conceded (113).

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1 hour ago, Ante's Bubbly said:

Iorfa's ridiculous attempt at a backpass was responsble for one recent away goal, his poor marking led to one of the goals on Saturday and his heavy touch and rash attempt for the penalty all down to him. Admittedly Dawson did well to almost save the pen, but was unlucky. 

 

Never said Iorfa was in fine form. If you think Dawson is playing well we'll just have to disagree on that score.

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Guest LondonOwl313
35 minutes ago, Emerson Thome said:

 

I did a thread on this a while back, but worth updating now Dawson in particular has a larger sample size this season:

 

League Games Only

Cameron Dawson

Wednesday Career:

50 Starts + 3 sub appearance (4,611 minutes)

72 Goals conceded (a goal every 64 minutes); 12 clean sheets

145 saves made (67% of shots saved)

WhoScored rating = 6.46

Passing Accuracy = 49.9%

 

Cameron Dawson

2019-20 season

19 Starts + 1 sub appearance (1,719 minutes)

23 Goals conceded (a goal every 75 minutes); 6 clean sheets

44 saves made (66% of shots saved)

WhoScored rating = 6.30

Passing Accuracy = 43.3%

 

Keiren Westwood

Wednesday Career:

177 starts (15,645 minutes)

169 Goals conceded (a goal every 93 minutes); 66 clean sheets

457 saves made (73% of shots saved)

WhoScored rating = 6.74

Passing Accuracy = 44.1%

 

Keiren Westwood

2019-20 season

14 Starts (1,250 minutes)

17 Goals conceded (a goal every 74 minutes); 5 clean sheets

51 saves made (75% of shots saved)

WhoScored rating = 6.41

Passing Accuracy = 44.5%

 

Also perhaps worth noting that although Westwood's figures are down this season on his career average, the 20 games he played last season were actually his best ever season in terms of saves made (80% of shots), WS rating (7.04) and mins per gaol conceded (113).

Thanks for this.. basically confirms what can be seen with your eyes. There’s not been much in it this season and Westwood has been uncharacteristically below par.. yet it’s not that long ago since he was class (less than a year) so no idea why so many are desperate to write him off. Particularly as it’s clear that his best is head and shoulders above Dawson’s 

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9 hours ago, SiJ said:

Westwood:

Reading 

West Brom 

Swansea x 2 

 

Dawson: 

QPR 

Barnsley 

Wigan? 

Reading? 

 

 

Westwoods 'mistake' at WBA was brought on by awful defending by Palmer who left him totally exposed and drew the penalty (if thats what youre classing as a mistake?)

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9 hours ago, McRightSide said:


Couple of ‘could do betters’ against Blackburn too

Thing is though at the minute looks like Dawson can carry on making mistakes and not dropped. Sometimes you need to break the cycle. Put Wildsmith or Westwood in nothing to lose is there?

Can't just accept mistakes of it is an outfield player they get dropped to sub bench at least.

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DC has invested money in the club.

DC has got us to our 1st ever Championship play off final

DC has got us to the following year’s play off semis

 

That group of players were good(ish) in 2016 when signed, just above average in the 2017 final, average in 2018 semis, past it in 2019 season ending up 12th and they are still here. Anything above 12th this year is a bonus (and not anticipated). The majority of these player’s contracts are up, wages bill will be slashed and new players brought in this summer. There is no question of a transfer embargo if we don’t have a squad (my guess).

 

No manager could get more out of this squad now that they all have a few weeks left on their contracts.

 

The mistakes happened in 2016 by signing past glory players. DC has hopefully learned from this and we will see if Monk can build a team to challenge in 21/22 season. The two big question marks are:

 

Has DC learned?
Does he care enough to back Monk?

 

If you expect anything before that then you’ll be disappointed.

 

If I we’re a betting man I’d say DC is working very hard behind the scenes to find a buyer for his failed attempts.

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I would revert to the team that slaughtered Forest. 
 

Dawson

Palmer Iorfa Lees Fox

Reach Bannan Luongo Harris

Rhodes Fletcher

 

Rhodes - Fletcher partnership scored 4 in 90 minutes then sadly injury shut it down. It would be foolish not to find out if this was a freak or a true strike partnership.

 

Lees v Borner - I’ve never seen in Borner what so many of you see in him. Even when we were getting results I thought he lacked mobility, reaction time and positional nous. 
 

I would love to see Reach and Harris alternating wings mid-game. I would love to see Murphy and Ff push hard for their place, meaning that we have 4 quality and very different wingers chomping at the bit to play.

 

This team did work. I’d like to see it given 3 or 4 games.

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7 hours ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Thanks for this.. basically confirms what can be seen with your eyes. There’s not been much in it this season and Westwood has been uncharacteristically below par.. yet it’s not that long ago since he was class (less than a year) so no idea why so many are desperate to write him off. Particularly as it’s clear that his best is head and shoulders above Dawson’s 


Fair shout. 
 

An on-form Westwood is a far better keeper than an on-form Dawson. 
 

It looks clear that he won’t play under Monk, and I support any manager rooting out a bad apple. I suspect that when Monk leaves, and surely he will, Bullen or the new man will quickly look to see if Westwood is up for it, and if so we will see him back.

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