Monk On Hutchinson And Westwood

[Dick_Turpin]

2 minutes ago, Sergeant Tibbs said:

I never said it did.

I compared one thing.  Seems like you're just looking for an argument- if you are, argue with the point I made, not one I didn't.

fizz me it's like debating with Cicero. Just because Ferguson did something doesn't mean when Monk does the same thing he's in the right. He is not the same calibre of manager. Not the same calibre when it comes to judging and motivating players. Just because Roberto Carlos can score with a 40 yard free kick it doesn't mean Morgan Fox is right to have a pop from a similar distance. I hope Monk is proven right and we turn into a real force under him. I really do. But forgive me if I want a bit more evidence before I start launching vitriol at players I've enjoyed watching over the last few years and following slavishly a bloke who has us playing some of the most turgid football we've seen since Terry Yorath was in charge.  Enjoy your football. 

[Sergeant Tibbs]

5 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

fizz me it's like debating with Cicero. Just because Ferguson did something doesn't mean when Monk does the same thing he's in the right. He is not the same calibre of manager. Not the same calibre when it comes to judging and motivating players. Just because Roberto Carlos can score with a 40 yard free kick it doesn't mean Morgan Fox is right to have a pop from a similar distance. I hope Monk is proven right and we turn into a real force under him. I really do. But forgive me if I want a bit more evidence before I start launching vitriol at players I've enjoyed watching over the last few years and following slavishly a bloke who has us playing some of the most turgid football we've seen since Terry Yorath was in charge.  Enjoy your football. 

And you've got the knowledge that says he's in the wrong. Perhaps you should pen a manual on how to manage people.

[Dick_Turpin]

Just now, Sergeant Tibbs said:

And you've got the knowledge that says he's in the wrong. Perhaps you should pen a manual on how to manage people.

So snarky.

 

I don't know if he's wrong or right. I assume nothing other than he isn't in Ferguson's class - although Fergie may have been the last successful exponent of that managerial style and/or maybe Monk will turn into a world beater and prove me wrong.

 

And I am pretty good at managing teams thanks. Perhaps I should write a manual. A capital idea. 

[Lawrie’s Left Peg]

23 minutes ago, NeonLeon said:

Not being an arsehole but they aren’t playing under Clotet though now are they?

 

See the argument at Wednesday about these two is that under another manager they’d be playing. So theoretically if say Monk had frozen Stockdale out but then Clotet chucked him back in, you have a solid comparison.
 

But also, as others have said, it’s the 2nd time in 18 months a manager has seen fit to freeze them both out. Like I said earlier, lightning doesn’t strike twice.

The 2 managers in question are arguably the worst 2 managers the club has had in the last 20 years. They both seem to struggle with big characters and reading between the lines (without any proof or evidence) seem to struggle with their authority being challenged. This is a results industry, if the manager takes a stance and it works people will praise him for his principles. If a manager takes a stance and it backfires people will call for his head. Unfortunately for Dross and Monk, their stance coincided with a serious deterioration in results and performances. Both knew what they didn’t want but not what they did want. Result personal and collective failure. 

[billyblack]

2 minutes ago, Lawrie’s Left Peg said:

The 2 managers in question are arguably the worst 2 managers the club has had in the last 20 years. They both seem to struggle with big characters and reading between the lines (without any proof or evidence) seem to struggle with their authority being challenged. This is a results industry, if the manager takes a stance and it works people will praise him for his principles. If a manager takes a stance and it backfires people will call for his head. Unfortunately for Dross and Monk, their stance coincided with a serious deterioration in results and performances. Both knew what they didn’t want but not what they did want. Result personal and collective failure. 

By big characters i assume you mean awkward and non conformist with no respect for discipline or professionalism.

 

They have a choice, they can leave whenever they like.

[Sergeant Tibbs]

Just now, rickygoo said:

So snarky.

 

I don't know if he's wrong or right. I assume nothing other than he isn't in Ferguson's class - although Fergie may have been the last successful exponent of that managerial style and/or maybe Monk will turn into a world beater and prove me wrong.

 

And I am pretty good at managing teams thanks. Perhaps I should write a manual. A capital idea. 

I hope you do. You can credit me with the idea. 

I'll give you a starter. I used to manage a team of 9. 3 of them used to love causing trouble. It unsettled the rest of the team. I split the 3 up. I managed them. I've now got a team of 8. Team productivity as gone up by 15% in the last 12 months.

What were the chances ?

[Dick_Turpin]

11 minutes ago, Sergeant Tibbs said:

And you've got the knowledge that says he's in the wrong. Perhaps you should pen a manual on how to manage people.

 

What I do know is our players have the best job in the world and they look like they flipping hate it.

[Dick_Turpin]

1 minute ago, Sergeant Tibbs said:

I hope you do. You can credit me with the idea. 

I'll give you a starter. I used to manage a team of 9. 3 of them used to love causing trouble. It unsettled the rest of the team. I split the 3 up. I managed them. I've now got a team of 8. Team productivity as gone up by 15% in the last 12 months.

What were the chances ?

Well done you. But you aren't Gary Monk. Did you ostracise the rogue 3? Did you call them out publicly but still keep them around with mates they've know for ages still in contact with them? And your productivity gain seems to be in total contrast with Monk's results. Maybe you should be managing Wednesday. 

 

 

[OwlBiSeeinThi]

3 hours ago, Ozymandias Owl said:

It's all well and good saying he needs time to sort this out. We've just brought in three forwards on loan and in today's home game we've managed three shots on target.... against Reading. 

 

The midfield was the problem before January, so bringing in three forwards in January is even more bizarre. It's along the same lines as the bizarre transfer policy since 2016. Once again Hutchinson still appears to be the be all and end all in our midfield. 

 

His stance on Hutchinson and Westwood is admirable, but we need points on the table. I'm not saying bring them back in because this problem was going on before he arrived, but I'm no longer confident Monk knows how to get results with what's available in our squad.

 

In fact things have gone backwards, drastically, by Monks own standards.

 

The three loan signings may have actually made things worse, within the dressing room. You get the impression this is all about new contracts. Dawson gets a new one, some players demands are rejected and a couple of new Lamborghini's turns up in the training ground carpark, and we're back to Sheffield Doomsday. 

 

 

21 fouls.

That's one of the things killing us this season. Giving away stupid free kicks in dangerous areas of the pitch.

We've thrown away so many games late on as a result.

At least we're throwing away games much earlier in the match. 

Sets the crowds expectations.

[swissmess]

1 hour ago, beswetherick said:

I love the idea of a no nonsense gaffer getting rid of the deadwood and putting their own stamp on the squad, turning us into a team that doesn’t take any shít in the vision of the manager... but what has Monk done to justify that, really?

 

We’re the worst form team in the division (and probably the entire football league) and the style of football we play is atrocious — it’s the kind of footy that’s only acceptable if we’re getting results, but we aren’t. There’s obviously a massive job that needs doing in terms of refreshing the squad, but for all Monk talks a good game, he’s done nothing tangible to suggest he’s the right person to take on that job

exactly

[Mike Hunt]

Loves a row Rickygoo 

 

are you related to 

2 Rolland 2

[Costello 77]

2 minutes ago, OwlBiSeeinThi said:

21 fouls.

That's one of the things killing us this season. Giving away stupid free kicks in dangerous areas of the pitch.

We've thrown away so many games late on as a result.

At least we're throwing away games much earlier in the match. 

Sets the crowds expectations.

The thing that's been killing is our star striker and other key players being injured since Christmas.

[Dick_Turpin]

Just now, hugeowl said:

Loves a row Rickygoo 

 

are you related to 

2 Rolland 2

I love evidence. And the people rowing with me.....? 

 

And no I'm not. At least I don't think so - I don't know who he is. 

[Costello 77]

Just now, rickygoo said:

I love evidence. And the people rowing with me.....? 

 

And no I'm not. At least I don't think so - I don't know who he is. 

I'll go rowing with you but I must be the Cox..

[Dick_Turpin]

3 minutes ago, hugeowl said:

Loves a row Rickygoo 

 

are you related to 

2 Rolland 2

But now I'm a bit riled I'm off to watch Vikings. Get my mad up even more. 

[Sergeant Tibbs]

3 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

Well done you. But you aren't Gary Monk. Did you ostracise the rogue 3? Did you call them out publicly but still keep them around with mates they've know for ages still in contact with them? And your productivity gain seems to be in total contrast with Monk's results. Maybe you should be managing Wednesday. 

 

 

Unlike you, I don't have the knowledge of the dressing room. I love my job, a much more worthy cause. 

You've got the inside knowledge of the players and as you said yourself, you're pretty good at managing teams. 

I'm too humble to make that claim.

[Lomas613]

4 hours ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

Given the circumstances, I thought Monk spoke pretty well after today's game, particularly when pushed on Hutchinson and Westwood's current situation:

 

I've been 25 years in the changing room. I know what  a successful changing room looks like, I know what the environment looks like.

 

Every single player knows where they stand.

 

I know what goes into a changing room and it's not just always football; it can be certain other things: influences, character, all this type of stuff...and I make those decisions on knowing what a changing room looks like, what it needs to be to be successful.

 

So again, that's a bigger picture thing. People will question am I right doing it in the here and now - who knows?

 

But at the end of the day, I can't go against what I know is right.

 

The temptation must be there to bring them back in from the cold in order to preserve his job, but if he feels so strongly that whatever has gone on is bad enough to merit their exclusion from the squad, then surely he has to be admired for taking such a principled stance which he clearly feels is for the greater good of our club?

I'm mildly looking forward to pre season write this one off and see what happens ready for next the EFL thing I recon is taking time crossing the ts dotting the I. There will be a compromise and one that wont leave us dry considering how many out of contract we have I recon that'll be enough in ita right to stave off sanctions maybe points deduction but not embargo or owt. Re build in summer just enjoy the ride 

[Bigblueowl]

Bring Roy Keane in as his no2 and let's see Hutchinson and Westwoods Billy big balls then! I think not! 

Edited February 15, 2020 by Bigblueowl
Spelling

[trevdi9]

be all and end all we are on a road to nowhere but down so what is Monk and the team going to do about it , 

 

[OwlBiSeeinThi]

1 minute ago, Costello 77 said:

The thing that's been killing is our star striker and other key players being injured since Christmas.

Not the thing. I said one of the things. 

But is one of the things that can increase our chances of staying in or winning games if we address it