malek Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 1 hour ago, gurujuan said: The thing with these young lads coming through for Derby, it wasn’t just a case of throwing them in Their performances for the U23s demanded that they get a chance. For us, only really Hunt has turned in anywhere near those sort of performances for the the U23s. Others have been OK, but not actually delivering the performances that say, you have to pick me Can't agree with that at all. Hunt wasn't our best or most talented U-23 player last year. Both Shaw and Grant were more deserving of chance at first team level, based both by their performances for U-23's and potential. But, it could well be that Hunt did better then them while they were training with first team and becoming mate with Bannan certainly helped his chances. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwlBiSeeinThi Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 I think more pressing is getting a good mix of young who can develop and very experienced older heads with guile and wit to keep us in the championship next season. We'll not be making a promotion push for at least two seasons, probably three. Get some experience in on two year deals with an option for the club to extend by a year if deemed still capable. Next season requires total focus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, malek said: Can't agree with that at all. Hunt wasn't our best or most talented U-23 player last year. Both Shaw and Grant were more deserving of chance at first team level, based both by their performances for U-23's and potential. But, it could well be that Hunt did better then them while they were training with first team and becoming mate with Bannan certainly helped his chances. No but he was the year before, this year he hardly played because he was part of the first team set up. Grant, was pretty good the year before, but was a little under par this year. Shaw was probably next in line, that’s why he got his chance. None had made a case similar to that made by Sibley at Derby though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 28 minutes ago, Bluesteel said: The idea isn’t to replace that quality from 2015 right away as we can’t spent the money to accelerate toward promotion but rather look for players that might be getting there in a season or so. Yes, that would be difficult, but shrewd use of the loan market could help, as it did for Huddersfield the year they went up. We have to get away from our policy of looking for experienced loanees though We already have experience, and we can add to that if needed, by bringing in affordable types like Dunkley Use the loan market to bring in exciting youngsters. You can obtain far better quality through the loan market, than we could ever afford to buy. Dunkley made sense, but the main thrust of our recruitment should now be about bringing in talented young energetic players, who will improve Even if we are improving them for somebody else, then that means they are improving us along the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owls-Fan Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 2 hours ago, FlyingOwl said: Garner would be a massive signing on loan and exactly the type I’ve been screaming about us signing. Young PL academy stars looking to make a massive impact. Lads looking to be the next Mason Mount basically and go from nobodies to England call ups in two seasons. Garner has good pedigree already with England youth appearances and even senior apps for United. My midfielder of choice was George McEachran (brother of Josh) from Chelsea but this would actually be better and I’d be surprised if we pulled it off. Dom Telford is very small and quick. I’m not sure where he fits into our squad. But then we don’t really have a squad. Im not overly enthusiastic about Kachunga but who really knows. Could be a shrewd deal if he finds his feet here quickly. Agree Garner would be a huge coop and we wouldn’t need much more in the centre of midfield with him added to our options. Bannan, Garner, Luongo, Hunt, Shaw, Grant, Pelupessy, Dele-Bashiru. It looks like we are after Kachunga and Windass who are hard working forwards who aren’t prolific but can be massive help to the team. Similar to Shane Long at saints I think we’d still need a target man and a striker like Telford, along with Rhodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, gurujuan said: Yes, that would be difficult, but shrewd use of the loan market could help, as it did for Huddersfield the year they went up. We have to get away from our policy of looking for experienced loanees though We already have experience, and we can add to that if needed, by bringing in affordable types like Dunkley Use the loan market to bring in exciting youngsters. You can obtain far better quality through the loan market, than we could ever afford to buy. Dunkley made sense, but the main thrust of our recruitment should now be about bringing in talented young energetic players, who will improve Even if we are improving them for somebody else, then that means they are improving us along the way I think prior to the points deduction we may have gone for young talented players. That's on the back burner now. The signing of Dunkley and the links to Windass and Kachunga suggest established low cost championship players are going to be the order of the day? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, Owls-Fan said: Agree Garner would be a huge coop and we wouldn’t need much more in the centre of midfield with him added to our options. Bannan, Garner, Luongo, Hunt, Shaw, Grant, Pelupessy, Dele-Bashiru. It looks like we are after Kachunga and Windass who are hard working forwards who aren’t prolific but can be massive help to the team. Similar to Shane Long at saints I think we’d still need a target man and a striker like Telford, along with Rhodes. Looking at that, there’s a huge gap in our midfield options, something which was directly responsible for our dreadful post Christmas form, no proper holding midfielder. Also, those forward options would be shocking, probably the worst in the division. Up front, we’d need to do a lot better than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Jim said: I think prior to the points deduction we may have gone for young talented players. That's on the back burner now. The signing of Dunkley and the links to Windass and Kachunga suggest established low cost championship players are going to be the order of the day? Well I’m happy enough with Dunkley, but if we go from the likes of Fletcher, Forestieri, Joao and Hooper, to Kachunga, Windass and Rhodes, there’s only one direction that we’ll be heading 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owls-Fan Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 1 minute ago, gurujuan said: Looking at that, there’s a huge gap in our midfield options, something which was directly responsible for our dreadful post Christmas form, no proper holding midfielder. Also, those forward options would be shocking, probably the worst in the division. Up front, we’d need to do a lot better than that Disagree but it’s all opinions, Garner is a holding midfielder so can play with Bannan and Luongo - or one of the youngsters in the midfield 3. We aren’t going to be signing many more central midfield players as we have to limit squad numbers and Monk wants to get the youngsters involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevthelodgemoorowl Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 1 hour ago, gurujuan said: I’m all for the coherent plan, and a clear strategy, but we also need to add some real quality. Hutchinson was one of the best in the division in his position, and we saw how vital he was to us, by the way our form collapsed, when he was frozen out. We also need a box to box player like Lee was in his prime. Maybe this was the role earmarked for Luongo, but so far he’s been a bit of a disappointment. He may get better. How we replace the talents of Forestieri, at one time the most talented player in the division, and the only player in recent history, to get the fans out of their seats. Fletcher, again was someone who was integral to the way we play, a little bit too much for my liking, but a very effective centre forward who we missed when he couldn’t play. You can probably add Joao to that list, and Hooper also. Players that offered us something in the final third, either pace or guile. These will be incomings that Monk will be judged on I agree but given current circumstances do you think DC will be willing to supply the required Kchunga ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Owls-Fan said: Disagree but it’s all opinions, Garner is a holding midfielder so can play with Bannan and Luongo - or one of the youngsters in the midfield 3. We aren’t going to be signing many more central midfield players as we have to limit squad numbers and Monk wants to get the youngsters involved. You might be right, if Garner is a holding midfielder. To be honest, I didn’t think he was, but I might well be wrong. If he is, and we get him, then great, but we’ve seen, the midfield doesn’t function properly without that type of player Certainly I’d agree that central midfield appears to be the area where we have the most talent coming through our own system, so yes, we do need to keep a clear pathway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, gurujuan said: Well I’m happy enough with Dunkley, but if we go from the likes of Fletcher, Forestieri, Joao and Hooper, to Kachunga, Windass and Rhodes, there’s only one direction that we’ll be heading I agree but with the EFL farce, I don’t see what else we can do mate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 11 hours ago, s6 owl said: A million for Sam Morsy is a no brainer he's the perfect fit for us. We're still waiting for evidence that we have the financial freedom to do such a thing. Obviously there is still much to be done building the squad, especially up front, but what we've seen so far is in keeping with a very restricted budget for this level. 2 hours ago, FlyingOwl said: Garner would be a massive signing on loan and exactly the type I’ve been screaming about us signing. I'm not opposed to anyone who can make us a better team, but these are purely short term measures. Someone like this almost has to be something of a failure for us to have any chance of keeping them in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocksyuto Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Any up and coming strikers out their from prem clubs we should be looking at loaning for the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldishowl Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 There are several things to consider. Firstly players like FF , Hooper, Joao have contributed very little for the last 2 seasons so it’s not really a case of replacing them. Secondly there are many strengths of a successful team. Once we lost key players from Carlos’s first eleven , like Hooper, FF , Lee and Wallace we were no longer a team going to win games by playing teams off the park and our lack of athletes and a regular playing style made us uncompetitive. It is very possible to do well in this league with an athletic, hard running, well organised team which on paper might not be riddled with quality. Which is why improving the coaching side is vital. That’s got be our aim alongside finding that elusive goal threat. Even there a big miss for us in recent seasons has been a lack of goals from all areas so it’s not just up front where we can get goals to win games. At the end of the day you don’t gain points if you ship goals like we were doing last season. The need to strengthen defensively in midfield is key to us. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 30 minutes ago, oldishowl said: There are several things to consider. Firstly players like FF , Hooper, Joao have contributed very little for the last 2 seasons so it’s not really a case of replacing them. Secondly there are many strengths of a successful team. Once we lost key players from Carlos’s first eleven , like Hooper, FF , Lee and Wallace we were no longer a team going to win games by playing teams off the park and our lack of athletes and a regular playing style made us uncompetitive. It is very possible to do well in this league with an athletic, hard running, well organised team which on paper might not be riddled with quality. Which is why improving the coaching side is vital. That’s got be our aim alongside finding that elusive goal threat. Even there a big miss for us in recent seasons has been a lack of goals from all areas so it’s not just up front where we can get goals to win games. At the end of the day you don’t gain points if you ship goals like we were doing last season. The need to strengthen defensively in midfield is key to us. First of all, this is a good debate, and it’s all about people with different opinions speculating on what may, or may not happen. On that first point, yes those players haven’t really contributed much in recent seasons, but surely we are looking to get back to where we were previously, or at the very least, improve on where we are now. Clearly the side has lost a lot of quality. We do indeed need to add athleticism to the squad, both in terms of pace and power, and we’ve needed that from season one Even so called footballing sides, won’t get anywhere without those attributes, and a willingness to work hard for the team. When rebuilding the squad, we also need to be mindful of building something that is sustainable. If we continue to bring in players in their late 20s, are we not making the same mistakes that we made in years 1 and 2, only with less quality? Under Carlos, we signed a lot of players in their late 20s, who very soon became thirty somethings He was massively criticised for doing that. I wholeheartedly agree, that a strong defensively minded midfielder is absolutely key. It’s unbelievable how much we missed Hutchinson, or a similar player, last season. Taking away that defensive shield, exposed a defence that had previously looked pretty secure. As for goals, well hopefully we will find other ways of creating goals, and if we recruit the right players, losing Fletcher might turn out to be a Godsend. Nobody can deny his willingness, but our obsession of always looking for his head, severely limited our attacking options. To a certain extent, it also negated the impact of our most creative player, Barry Bannan. He is a player who thrives on movement ahead of him, and in Forestieri, Hooper and Joao, he had that. Throw in the late runs of Kieran Lee, and he always had targets to pick out. When I say we need to replace those players, I mean we need to replace the things they brought to the team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malek Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 1 hour ago, gurujuan said: No but he was the year before, this year he hardly played because he was part of the first team set up. Grant, was pretty good the year before, but was a little under par this year. Shaw was probably next in line, that’s why he got his chance. None had made a case similar to that made by Sibley at Derby though Sorry mate, I like you and respect your opinion but must disagree again. There were always better and more talented players than Hunt in our U-23 and U-18 sides. Don't get me wrong, he is a decent player but we have better. Also, he played most of U-23 games this season and started really featuring for first team after the break (short cameo against Man City aside). 4 of our most talented players in U-23 sides are central midfielders and as we wanted to play them all (so stupid) we decided to play Grant wide left in 4-2-3-1 formation (possibly because he is quicker than other 3 and can beat players with skill) . He often got isolated up there, had to drop too deep to get on the ball and often tried to do too much to compensate. Don't think his progress stalled or that he did badly everything considered. If we had guys who knew what they were doing running things at that level, perhaps things would have turned out differently. Dunno what Sibley did to get chance at first teal level for Derby, but he certainly did superbly well since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S26 Owl Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Need a LB desperately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, S26 Owl said: Need a LB desperately If Hickey was a genuine, albeit unlikely target, then I’m happy with the direction we look to be taking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owls-Fan Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 1 hour ago, gurujuan said: You might be right, if Garner is a holding midfielder. To be honest, I didn’t think he was, but I might well be wrong. If he is, and we get him, then great, but we’ve seen, the midfield doesn’t function properly without that type of player Certainly I’d agree that central midfield appears to be the area where we have the most talent coming through our own system, so yes, we do need to keep a clear pathway Yes I think we’ll only be looking to bring 1 or 2 players max. in for central midfield now. But I agree with you the forward line is a concern, the club will have a tough task bringing in players on a budget that will excite the fan base but we shall see what happens 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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