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REDAs_biG_piECE

Westwood/Dawson sums up Monk

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48 minutes ago, REDAs_biG_piECE said:

So Westwood drops a couple of balls vs Swansea and gets dropped for his mistakes and is replaced by Dawson

 

Fair enough you might say (although personally I’d forgive someone the odd mistake who has been our best value and most reliable player over the duration of his time here)

 

Dawson drops absolute howlers vs QPR, Barnsley and Luton and continues to be out of form and have the kicking ability of a small girl

 

Also seen laughing and joking with the Luton crowd when they were mugging him off nicking the ball and then laughing and joking with the Luton players at full time and let’s not forget what he stood and allowed to happen with that free kick at Cardiff (my point being he’s far far too nice to be a top player you need to have an edge to you and be a horrible bar steward when needed)
 

Yet Monk doesn’t drop him and replace him like he did immediately with Westwood

 

Wheres the consistency from Monk? 
And for that simple reason alone is why I’d say he’s got no respect and probably lost the players respect and I’m done with him

 

The fact that I have serious wood for Westwood and think he’s our most important player (or on par with the Fletcher of this season) is merely an aside....

Remind me of the absolute howler v Luton?

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37 minutes ago, REDAs_biG_piECE said:


What is the source of this information please?

 

The strong managers didn’t seem to have this problem putting our best keeper between the sticks just cos he might be a bit tricky to handle

 

If you don't know what has (or hasn't) happened, how can you make a judgement on whether it's being dealt with in an appropriate manner or not? If there are issues of misconduct in the squad, it is simply not practical for the club to conduct that kind of business in public is it? 

 

I'm a little troubled that many seem to be creating this as some kind of factual narrative when the evidence is slim at best, but it's not without logic.

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Ian said:

Remind me of the absolute howler v Luton?


So he didn’t go down on the deck like a drunk pensioner whilst they walked it round him and tapped into an empty net?

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1 hour ago, REDAs_biG_piECE said:

So Westwood drops a couple of balls vs Swansea and gets dropped for his mistakes and is replaced by Dawson

 

Fair enough you might say (although personally I’d forgive someone the odd mistake who has been our best value and most reliable player over the duration of his time here)

 

Dawson drops absolute howlers vs QPR, Barnsley and Luton and continues to be out of form and have the kicking ability of a small girl

 

Also seen laughing and joking with the Luton crowd when they were mugging him off nicking the ball and then laughing and joking with the Luton players at full time and let’s not forget what he stood and allowed to happen with that free kick at Cardiff (my point being he’s far far too nice to be a top player you need to have an edge to you and be a horrible bar steward when needed)
 

Yet Monk doesn’t drop him and replace him like he did immediately with Westwood

 

Wheres the consistency from Monk? 
And for that simple reason alone is why I’d say he’s got no respect and probably lost the players respect and I’m done with him

 

The fact that I have serious wood for Westwood and think he’s our most important player (or on par with the Fletcher of this season) is merely an aside....

Drops a couple of Balls?Westwood cost us several games and has been very poor when he has played, where have you been this season.?.

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30 minutes ago, REDAs_biG_piECE said:


And your primary evidence that confirms Westwood is not towing the line is?

 

Well researched hungary players like Windass and Da Cruz who are weaker than the players they’ve replaced you mean?


Re-read my post. Read between the lines. You don’t need direct evidence to understand that there is a serious issue with both Westwood and Hutchinson with new managers that want to exert their control, their methods etc. 
 

It’s obvious there are serious issues. No manager will want to drop 2 senior talented pro’s for fun. 
 

Monk/Any manager has to do it his way not the players way. This is ultimately why they have been dropped from the squad. 
 

If you want to judge Windass and Da Cruz after 2 games then you are a genius. You can only really judge them when we know they are fully fit (in terms of Championship game fit) after a much longer period of time. 

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1 minute ago, adelphi1867 said:

Drops a couple of Balls?Westwood cost us several games and has been very poor when he has played, where have you been this season.?.

 

Going through Westwood's bins and washing basket by the sound of it.

:laugh:

 

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I remember reading in Rednapp's book, several examples through his management career, of players who thought they were bigger than the club, getting away with murder, IF THEY WERE GOOD ENOUGH. 

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1 hour ago, REDAs_biG_piECE said:

So Westwood drops a couple of balls vs Swansea and gets dropped for his mistakes and is replaced by Dawson

 

Fair enough you might say (although personally I’d forgive someone the odd mistake who has been our best value and most reliable player over the duration of his time here)

 

Dawson drops absolute howlers vs QPR, Barnsley and Luton 

 

 

This is where I stopped reading, no way was that goal down to Dawson, any finger pointing should be at Iorfa. 

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7 minutes ago, adelphi1867 said:

Drops a couple of Balls?Westwood cost us several games and has been very poor when he has played, where have you been this season.?.


At every match and I’ll tell you we were loads better with him in the team

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1 hour ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

I have confidence in both keepers, both have been as good/bad as each other.  

 

The conflict seems to be personnel and you need players who you can trust at the end of the day.

 

 

 

 

Sorry but Dawson is and never has been anywhere near Westwood’s level of performance you are judging them on this season aren’t you ? 

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2 minutes ago, bradowl said:

 

 

This is where I stopped reading, no way was that goal down to Dawson, any finger pointing should be at Iorfa. 

Tbf the last word of a post is the standard place to stop reading..:tango:

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The thing is Westwood  probably would have claimed his place back by now. But for the ruling himself out over Xmas( basically saying I'm not going to sit on bench over Xmas) which is wrong attitude. And this attitude is one of reasons why  this group won't  get to where we should be.  And this about other managers have dealt  fine with it is just a case of they have let it go because they don't feel they have a choice as in a player of that quality. Which is just short term thinking  because its only going to alienate everyone else. 

Edited by Shiregreenowl 80
Wrong word

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Just now, Shiregreenowl 80 said:

The thing is Westwood  probably would have claimed his place back by now. But for the ruling himself out over Xmas( basically saying I'm not going to sit on bench over Xmas) which is wrong attitude. And this attitude is one of reasons why  this group will get to where we should be.  And this about other managers have dealt  fine with it is just a case of they have let it go because they don't feel they have a choice as in a player of that quality. Which is just short term thinking  because its only going to alienate everyone else. 


So it’s a fact that Westwood refuses to sit on the bench (even though he has been on the bench this season) 

 

Could you share your primary evidence as well please or are you too regurgitating the opinions of the resident know it all owlstalk experts?

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Just now, REDAs_biG_piECE said:


So it’s a fact that Westwood refuses to sit on the bench (even though he has been on the bench this season) 

 

Could you share your primary evidence as well please or are you too regurgitating the opinions of the resident know it all owlstalk experts?

All there for you if you look. Physio says injury is fully recovered. But Westwood saying he"s not.  Hence the the comment  from monk about its just down to "his own pain threshold" 

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13 minutes ago, RichSheffWeds said:


Re-read my post. Read between the lines. You don’t need direct evidence to understand that there is a serious issue with both Westwood and Hutchinson with new managers that want to exert their control, their methods etc. 
 

It’s obvious there are serious issues. No manager will want to drop 2 senior talented pro’s for fun. 
 

Monk/Any manager has to do it his way not the players way. This is ultimately why they have been dropped from the squad. 
 

If you want to judge Windass and Da Cruz after 2 games then you are a genius. You can only really judge them when we know they are fully fit (in terms of Championship game fit) after a much longer period of time. 

I am not a fan of Monk but he’s the manager and he has to manage as he sees fit. I don’t know what’s gone off and I’d rather Westwood and Hutch were in the team but for whatever workplace reason - and we’ve all seen workplace fall outs - they aren’t.

 

What I don’t get is on the basis of scant circumstantial evidence is the abuse being hurled at them. The same level of proof that on the basis of chairman allegations against Monk would mean he shouldn’t get anywhere near a managerial post. 

 

Hutch in particular gives more effort when he plays than any other squad member. If they’re banished fine but all the bad blood shows the perpetrators up as being pernicious nasty little individuals. 

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1 hour ago, horny owl said:

There are apparently rumblings of discontent in the camp regarding Westwood’s attitude towards wanting to named on the team sheet 

 

Or put another way he thinks he’s bigger than the club and can do what the phook he wants because he’s one of our biggest wage stealers


TBF it’s not just Westwood that wants Westwood to be named on the team sheet 

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44 minutes ago, Ian said:

Remind me of the absolute howler v Luton?


I’ll trade you for Wigan.

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3 minutes ago, Shiregreenowl 80 said:

The thing is Westwood  probably would have claimed his place back by now. But for the ruling himself out over Xmas( basically saying I'm not going to sit on bench over Xmas) which is wrong attitude. And this attitude is one of reasons why  this group won't  get to where we should be.  And this about other managers have dealt  fine with it is just a case of they have let it go because they don't feel they have a choice as in a player of that quality. Which is just short term thinking  because its only going to alienate everyone else. 

 

I think that's the implication and bigger picture, which although no one knows the facts, no one at the club has come out to explain the situation. Our no1 keeper, who we gave a 2-yr contract to in the Summer, who's apparently fit, is not on our bench. 

 

We have the ridiculous scenario that if Dawson gets injured during the game, we have to bring on our 3rd choice keeper, whilst the no1 keeper watches on from where ever he is during the game. It says so much about the club and could be a contributory factor at recent capitulation of the entire team/squad.

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The main ingredients for promotion {as proven by United last season) are, good manager, top goalkeeper, creative midfielder and at least 3 regular goalscoring strikers.

At the moment we are sadly lacking. We desperately needed a top goalkeeper, on loan from a top club as we are very weak in this department, I like Dawson as a person, but sadly the truth is he's not good enough. Far too many fundamental faults for a top championship keeper, and no signs of trying to improve. We should have sorted this in the last transfer window. I believe that with the current options Wildsmith should be given a chance as his distribution and positional play were far superior to Dawson. 

I think we are all frustrated watching the current team who could do much better. I have no thoughts on replacing the manager, even though I believe he could do much better. It's not always a miracle cure. I would probably change my mind if a proven promotion winner became available.

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3 minutes ago, Animis said:

 

I think that's the implication and bigger picture, which although no one knows the facts, no one at the club has come out to explain the situation. Our no1 keeper, who we gave a 2-yr contract to in the Summer, who's apparently fit, is not on our bench. 

 

We have the ridiculous scenario that if Dawson gets injured during the game, we have to bring on our 3rd choice keeper, whilst the no1 keeper watches on from where ever he is during the game. It says so much about the club and could be a contributory factor at recent capitulation of the entire team/squad.

But how far do u let players rule?  Like I say its short term gains

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