The only way is S6 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 15 hours ago, asteener1867 said: Matters not tho mate....He can more or less do what he wants...Carry on...pack up..whatever scenario leaves us floundering What about the keep investing until we get into the PL scenario? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danblakemore Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Don’t worry, corona is gonna make this season nil and void... so let’s take the points deduction now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darra Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 15 hours ago, Animis said: In the end, it's his club, and commercially and financially he either succeeds in his plan, or fails. The extent of the failure in your potential outcomes, would mean he will continue to hemorrhage 10s of millions each year, with no sign of PL success. He can't carry on doing this - he's gambled and lost a substantial amount of money over 5 years. He's looking for someone to buy the debt off him, in his bizarre valuation of the club (as of Dec 2018). Like the Co-op, he will eventually have to take the haircut. The alternative is the EFL change their rules and it becomes a free for all in who can spend the most. If he at this point, can get his family interested, we may have a shot, but so will many others. A more sustainable model is out there - Pigs, Huddersfield and potentially Brentford have proved that you don't have to go crazy; just employ the right people in the right areas with some astute signings and a team ethic and philosophy. Unfortunately DC's record on this isn't good. Did the co-op take a haircut? With the interest payments we made over the years they pretty much broke even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Farrell Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Just now, darra said: Did the co-op take a haircut? With the interest payments we made over the years they pretty much broke even. I always understood they still wrote off a sizeable chunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darra Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Mr Farrell said: I always understood they still wrote off a sizeable chunk. They did write off a sizeable chunk but when taking into account interest payments not so.much. Can't remember the exact figures but at the time I was arguing with a blunt in here. Iirc they lost something like 2 million.maybe 5 on the deal again iirc we we were paying around a million in interest payments to them and had been for a fair few years. Edited February 29, 2020 by darra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plonk Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, Mr Farrell said: I always understood they still wrote off a sizeable chunk. It’s business. It happens all the time. When businesses are in the poo . Take half or get nowt is sometimes an attractive option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Farrell Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 1 minute ago, darra said: They did write off a sizeable chunk but when taking into account interest payments not so.much. Can't remember the exact figures but at the time I was arguing with a blunt in here. Iirc they lost something like 2 million.maybe 5 on the deal again iirc we we were paying around a million in interest payments to them and had been for a fair few years. Seems an age ago now. Still thought with interest they lost a few million. Grandad or Paul would probably remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Farrell Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Plonk said: It’s business. It happens all the time. When businesses are in the poo . Take half or get nowt is sometimes an attractive option. Of course. Goes without saying. Darra was just making the point, they possibly broke even due to interest charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinaOwl Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, darra said: Did the co-op take a haircut? With the interest payments we made over the years they pretty much broke even. I hear this a lot but, as far as I am concerned, it is a moot point. When money is borrowed from a lending institution, the agreement is to pay back the loaned amount PLUS interest. It is defaulting to pay back the interest alone. If someone takes out an interest only mortgage, they cannot decide after they pay the interest off not to repay the original loaned amount. The CO-OP sold the debt cheaply to Mandaric simply because it was the best chance they had to regain some of the losses they were likely to subsequently make. It does not make it morally or ethically better in terms of the club how much was repaid in interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Farrell Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, ChinaOwl said: I hear this a lot but, as far as I am concerned, it is a moot point. When money is borrowed from a lending institution, the agreement is to pay back the loaned amount PLUS interest. It is defaulting to pay back the interest alone. If someone takes out an interest only mortgage, they cannot decide after they pay the interest off not to repay the original loaned amount. The CO-OP sold the debt cheaply to Mandaric simply because it was the best chance they had to regain some of the losses they were likely to subsequently make. It does not make it morally or ethically better in terms of the club how much was repaid in interest. Spot on. It was the best we could do, and the best they could hope for at time though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinaOwl Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Just now, Mr Farrell said: Spot on. It was the best we could do, and the best they could hope for at time though. It was a business transaction executed by Mandaric - nothing more nothing less. He was not responsible for the financial mismanagement of previous regimes so I do not blame him at all. But neither should paying the interest be an opportunity for supporters to try to gain the moral high ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 36 minutes ago, Mr Farrell said: You'd be surprised how much people will condone and tolerate. Dave Allen had a hardcore of our supporters who believed he was quite right to try and ruin our fans through the court system. He actually did aswell, weird bunch wednesdayites are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longreach Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 28 minutes ago, Royal_D said: He actually did aswell, weird bunch wednesdayites are They were dark days, never to be repeated I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essix Blue Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 5 hours ago, Stoop said: Seeing as the EFL make things up as they go. I reckon they’ll dock us enough points to put us in danger of going down but not put us straight in the bottom 3 That should keep Steve Gibson and a few others happy at least I think we’ll agree to be in the wrong, but the EFL will agree to mistakes made also. We’ll take a 9 point deduction or summat cos that way we’ll stay up. Everyone’s happy. Except Gibson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Farrell Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 19 minutes ago, longreach said: They were dark days, never to be repeated I hope. One of the reasons people are understandably concerned about how we are currently run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 58 minutes ago, ChinaOwl said: I hear this a lot but, as far as I am concerned, it is a moot point. When money is borrowed from a lending institution, the agreement is to pay back the loaned amount PLUS interest. It is defaulting to pay back the interest alone. If someone takes out an interest only mortgage, they cannot decide after they pay the interest off not to repay the original loaned amount. The CO-OP sold the debt cheaply to Mandaric simply because it was the best chance they had to regain some of the losses they were likely to subsequently make. It does not make it morally or ethically better in terms of the club how much was repaid in interest. The reports at the time were, 'Mandaric agreed a £7m settlement with the Co-op Bank, who were owed £23million by the club, and five directors but former chairman Dave Allen, owed £2.4m accepted a £1.5m offer.' I'm not sure that a £16m right-off would have been interest alone - I thought the interest was around 5-10% at the time? DC's mounting debt will sit with the club/company and will have to be valued at some point, and any potential buyer will look at the overall picture as MM did and make an offer. I wouldn't expect the the club's present value is any more than when DC bought it for £30m 5 years ago, as MM had debt's down to circa £10m. DC's £100m+ valuation must include a lot of hope value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The only way is S6 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 13 minutes ago, Essix Blue said: Except Gibson What, even if we relegate them last day of the season? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 4 hours ago, Animis said: It's a good point - only Gibson/Middlesbrough have put their head above the parapet - maybe others are lobbying the EFL, but don't want to be seen publicly making a fuss, in case they end up in the same position. As a journalist then...how can you write that clubs are demanding a points deduction without proof...it's like writing all the Prem Clubs all demanded that Man City should be getting a points deduction before the outcome of their hearing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBridgfordowl Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 3 hours ago, darra said: They did write off a sizeable chunk but when taking into account interest payments not so.much. Can't remember the exact figures but at the time I was arguing with a blunt in here. Iirc they lost something like 2 million.maybe 5 on the deal again iirc we we were paying around a million in interest payments to them and had been for a fair few years. Are you saying the co-op weren’t paying interest to the markets on the money they lent to us? accept they make a turn on the debt, but they don’t get their money for free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 47 minutes ago, daveyboy66 said: As a journalist then...how can you write that clubs are demanding a points deduction without proof...it's like writing all the Prem Clubs all demanded that Man City should be getting a points deduction before the outcome of their hearing they might be briefing 'off-record' but some clubs will want a rival hammered and one less competition to deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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